Shiny rate change
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Chocobo7
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Things aren't always clear at the start, the thing about a BETA is that it shows you how balance works over a period of time, something that seems good at point a can be seen to be inbalanced at point b.
As someone mentioned the Shiny stats I'll use that as a comparison, for a long time this was the norm but after a long time looking at it, it was clear that it unbalanced PvP to the point where only Shinies were viable at high level and removing it would help improve the balance of the game. This is a similar situation where the availablity of shinies is a potentially balance breaking occurance. The idea here is to get the input on what the players think on wether the change would be good for the game.
Final thought: the game is BETA, this means change is expected and change does not always mean bad.
As someone mentioned the Shiny stats I'll use that as a comparison, for a long time this was the norm but after a long time looking at it, it was clear that it unbalanced PvP to the point where only Shinies were viable at high level and removing it would help improve the balance of the game. This is a similar situation where the availablity of shinies is a potentially balance breaking occurance. The idea here is to get the input on what the players think on wether the change would be good for the game.
Final thought: the game is BETA, this means change is expected and change does not always mean bad.
This has always been a topic of discussion in the staff.WolxTheHunter said:
Several years ago the shiny bonus use to be 20% increase to all stats, then it changed to guarantee iv ranges (28-32) or something along those lines.
Several years ago there were discussions about removing shiny bonus all together, since then we have decided it is not appropriate action for the time, and have since moved away and looked at other things.
Then over a year ago the issue of changing the rate was brought up. Things like in game updates, DDOS attacks, and other things stalled the discussion.
There has been other changes throughout the year that has affect game balances as well. We have reduced pokemoney drop rates in the past. Set max levels for npcs where they use to keep gaining levels. We have changed the donation system many times in many different ways. We have added more content, more pokemon, more ways to gain money in game.
This game is said to be in beta(many will disagree), games at this stages are always going through changes. In fully released games are starting to do balance changes when possible. This is an on going process that is always being re-examined for ways to improve the system.
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I vote in favor of allowing more Shiny Pokemon Easy to find, I see a lot of complaints from people who thought all during one month only 1 or 2 shiny Pokemon and do not want to buy MS. And cases that found nothing and spread the rumor that the MS PWO is bad, it leaves all in doubt.
CheckeredZebra
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Ok, I'm weird, but I get membership for the nice EXP bonus. Not that you're looking for staff opinions, but I DO play the game often and enjoy it as a player as well.
For people with no luck, I find the exp bonus is the best thing membership can give. Would boosting that exp bonus help "make up" for lessened memb. shiny chances? Would that appeal to the ones who REALLY don't want to lose that chance? Would that unbalance the game somehow?
For people with no luck, I find the exp bonus is the best thing membership can give. Would boosting that exp bonus help "make up" for lessened memb. shiny chances? Would that appeal to the ones who REALLY don't want to lose that chance? Would that unbalance the game somehow?
hellraiser
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i have a question do you just asking about the rate now? or you allready dropped the rate? because this seems to be the case now.
I may be wrong but with regards to the 1/200 thing, I don't think that ratio will change greatly if you made this change. People catch what they want and kill what they don't. People want shinies and horribly rares so a much larger proportion of the pokemon in the database will be these things compared to their actual spawn rates. There are more shinies ingame because there are more people in-game not because people are finding more individually. The shiny benefit and to some extent, the exp increase are probably the main reasons people get membership. The other benefits are miniscule really. Making this change is more likely to make the bridge between new and old players quite a lot more since most older players already have what they want hoarded up to a large extent. Won't really bridge any gaps between non members and members in the sense that people who have been members for a while already still have a large amount hoarded up. If bridging up the gap is the aim, makes more sense to remove everyone's pokemoney or remove existing shinies. If people play 3 hours a day on average, fight 4 pokemon a minute, 240 an hour, expected to find a shiny roughly 10 hours of playing or around 3 days. Does seem a bit low admittedly although I dont really think most people find them that quickly.
I think most people who would be for this change are older players whose stuff would increase in value so I dont really see this as a balance shift in a good way. I don't personally see any problem in doing this, I just dont see it doing much good, unless it comes with a reset in everyones stuff. The bridges between new and old are already big enough. Reducing the rate is definitely a good idea and would create a more balanced final game which is the aim of beta, but in terms of balancing the present game it seems to me like it would do the opposite.
I think most people who would be for this change are older players whose stuff would increase in value so I dont really see this as a balance shift in a good way. I don't personally see any problem in doing this, I just dont see it doing much good, unless it comes with a reset in everyones stuff. The bridges between new and old are already big enough. Reducing the rate is definitely a good idea and would create a more balanced final game which is the aim of beta, but in terms of balancing the present game it seems to me like it would do the opposite.
This is not trying to fix current issues right away, this is trying to make the game more balance in the future. This is a LONG TERM balance change.
Bobotheclown, the point isn't to bridge the gap between members and non-members, as well as new players and old members, but to make sure we are making changes that create a desired effect we are looking for, without creating effects we don't want.
Bobotheclown, the point isn't to bridge the gap between members and non-members, as well as new players and old members, but to make sure we are making changes that create a desired effect we are looking for, without creating effects we don't want.
Well when you are talking about a change like this, balancing the game and bridging gaps are kind of the same thing in my opinion when considering a game that has been running for however many years. It's different to the sort of change that happened when reducing the shiny buff because that actually balanced battles in an obvious way.
What I was saying that it would be a good thing in ensuring a fresh game doesnt become unbalanced to the extent this one has but applying the change to one which has gone on for as long as this one wont achieve balance for many years unless all the current players start again. You also would not be able to see the global effects of any introduced change unless it is a clean system. You cant really measure the effect of such a change like this in a meaningful way if introduced at this stage because the balance is already way too off, it would take a time period at least the length of time the game has currently been running for this to have made a meaningful impact. So it depends how long term you want to talk about really. I could show all this with nice pretty graphs of lines with different gradients but cant be bothered to upload really.
By all means its a good idea to halve the shiny chance if there were no existing shinies in the game although it will just mean it takes twice as long for the game to become unbalanced again (probably quicker actually because of higher member numbers), not really change the balance itself. I'm not actually for or against this, I dont really mind either way, I would just say I wouldnt see it having a positive impact at all for a very long time if it does at all. If the desired effect is to simply reduce the number of new shinies ingame this would achieve that but I wouldnt define that as balance.
What I was saying that it would be a good thing in ensuring a fresh game doesnt become unbalanced to the extent this one has but applying the change to one which has gone on for as long as this one wont achieve balance for many years unless all the current players start again. You also would not be able to see the global effects of any introduced change unless it is a clean system. You cant really measure the effect of such a change like this in a meaningful way if introduced at this stage because the balance is already way too off, it would take a time period at least the length of time the game has currently been running for this to have made a meaningful impact. So it depends how long term you want to talk about really. I could show all this with nice pretty graphs of lines with different gradients but cant be bothered to upload really.
By all means its a good idea to halve the shiny chance if there were no existing shinies in the game although it will just mean it takes twice as long for the game to become unbalanced again (probably quicker actually because of higher member numbers), not really change the balance itself. I'm not actually for or against this, I dont really mind either way, I would just say I wouldnt see it having a positive impact at all for a very long time if it does at all. If the desired effect is to simply reduce the number of new shinies ingame this would achieve that but I wouldnt define that as balance.
Well, I for one can find in average at least one shiny in one or two days if I'm hunting seriously (meaning only walking around in tall grass or dungeon and not doing anything else except chatting for hours). Sometimes it means 3 aper day, sometimes it means nothing for a week.
Although I like finding shiny Pokemon, I don't think it's good that it is so easy to find.
And Bobo, I don't agree with you. There is a serious fluctuation in the playing community. Many players register, beat the 16 gym, buy a few shiny then they have nothing to do and leave. They would suck out the unneeded shiny Pokemon from the system very fast. Also, it would force players to find other ways to earn money than selling shinys. Like finding, leveling and selling epic, but normal Pokes. Of course it would be hard at first, but as the level of unselled shinys reduce and new players come to play, this way would shortly become more and more lucrative.
I am totally supportive to this idea (although I seem to be in minority at the moment
) but I think reducing the SC only for the members is not enough. We play too many hours so statistically there still will be many shinys found, so I would reduce the shiny chance overall.
Although I like finding shiny Pokemon, I don't think it's good that it is so easy to find.
And Bobo, I don't agree with you. There is a serious fluctuation in the playing community. Many players register, beat the 16 gym, buy a few shiny then they have nothing to do and leave. They would suck out the unneeded shiny Pokemon from the system very fast. Also, it would force players to find other ways to earn money than selling shinys. Like finding, leveling and selling epic, but normal Pokes. Of course it would be hard at first, but as the level of unselled shinys reduce and new players come to play, this way would shortly become more and more lucrative.
I am totally supportive to this idea (although I seem to be in minority at the moment
) but I think reducing the SC only for the members is not enough. We play too many hours so statistically there still will be many shinys found, so I would reduce the shiny chance overall.There's different gaps that we are trying to bridge however.BoboTheClown said:
Here's how I went about looking at it:
The current rate for members is 1/2048. That rate seems to produce a mindset where people EXPECT to find shiny commons rather quickly. For non-members the rate is 1/8192 and there seems to be a consensus that it's extremely unlikely to find a shiny for non-members. So there's a giant gap between those two numbers and the expectations reflect that. Those numbers are pretty much saying "hey you NEED to have membership if you want to find a shiny and are foolish not to have one". We are more or less forcing people to buy membership to get shiny pokemon. Is this a good thing?
So we looked at exactly how does that 1/2048 compare with other rates in game. What is easier to find? HR or a shiny common? Which one should be easier to find and by how much? I answered this as: except for in water lab, Shiny commons are easier to find then horrible rares and this should not be the case.
This lead to the question: perhaps the horrible rare rate is the problem? This was dismissed because I think the horrible rare rate is perfect, and for some pokemon the rate be even lower (more difficult to catch).
The next question is, how do we go about altering the rates for shiny pokemon then. We want to keep them similar to the handhelds rates which was 1/8192. We thought this was great for non-members as they are on par with the handheld rates. If we made the chance of finding shiny pokemon any more difficult for them... well you can forget about ever finding one.
So what about the membership perk then? Well we figure twice as likely to find a shiny is still a rather big incentive to buy membership... is it not? Considering you receive 50% more exp, and twice as much money why is the shiny rate 4 times as much? Twice as much seems to still make a lot of sense, does it not?
My 2 cents:
I feel like decreasing the rate of shiny to 1/4000 in opposte to 1/2000 for members is a good idea, because this will make shiny pokemons actually be worth something. Most common shinies are too cheap to get these days.
But I do agree that the 300% increase of shiny was a main reason many people buy the membership for. I suggest that you add additional privileges to members, so that it will still be attractive to buy the membership. Surely, if you take away something from them, they want something else in return.
The psychological thought behind it is: If you were an AARP member and you were always giving 50% off on all medication but now we want to reduce that to only 25% off, no one will be happy about it, but if you say we are giving 25% off now but you guys can choose any doctors instead of the limited list of doctors we had in the past.
Majority of the members are already used to the 300% increase rate, to reduce it to 200% rate, maybe give them other privileges. Like a membership only chat, membership forum, membership chat color in game chat. These things are just for looks, leisure, ease. But members will surely appreciate it and think of it as another good reason to donate.
Your boss says we are reducing your pay by $1,000 annually but now we give you 1 week extra vacation! No!!!! not $1000 off my pay, but at least I have 1 extra week off now. Same concept.
Overall, decreasing the rate of shinies to 1/4000 for members is a good idea, but you must compliment it with additional features perks for members to be excited about.
I feel like decreasing the rate of shiny to 1/4000 in opposte to 1/2000 for members is a good idea, because this will make shiny pokemons actually be worth something. Most common shinies are too cheap to get these days.
But I do agree that the 300% increase of shiny was a main reason many people buy the membership for. I suggest that you add additional privileges to members, so that it will still be attractive to buy the membership. Surely, if you take away something from them, they want something else in return.
The psychological thought behind it is: If you were an AARP member and you were always giving 50% off on all medication but now we want to reduce that to only 25% off, no one will be happy about it, but if you say we are giving 25% off now but you guys can choose any doctors instead of the limited list of doctors we had in the past.
Majority of the members are already used to the 300% increase rate, to reduce it to 200% rate, maybe give them other privileges. Like a membership only chat, membership forum, membership chat color in game chat. These things are just for looks, leisure, ease. But members will surely appreciate it and think of it as another good reason to donate.
Your boss says we are reducing your pay by $1,000 annually but now we give you 1 week extra vacation! No!!!! not $1000 off my pay, but at least I have 1 extra week off now. Same concept.
Overall, decreasing the rate of shinies to 1/4000 for members is a good idea, but you must compliment it with additional features perks for members to be excited about.
in my opinion there's no need to apport this change, because it's quite difficult find Shiny right now....and economically speaking, i think u will lose a lot of member... I bought the membership that i still have active just for the Shiny, and i will not buy again if the possibility of S will decrease, because like already said is very difficult to find them.... but that's just my opinin... by the way thx for ur job
G
Guest
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Once again we have a nice UPDATE from our fellow staffs. You should be all ashamed what have you done with this game. This used to be game once until
someone who was thinking that is smart enough to make changes. You are all idiots if you ask why people are turning back from this game.
You destroyed everything what was good for players. When shiny boost was removed 17 people voted. 8 of them was for shiny boost and 9 of them was against.
Not weird since they lick but to each other. I wonder how can you decide what is good what is not if you are not even a player. We all know how you became a staff
and didnt took you much. Honestly excludind but lickers is there anyone of you who actually knows how hard is to get a shiny. Yet you aren't giving
people chance to vote. I wouldn't be suprised if you fix that voting in your favour as you did with shiny boost. This is disgusting seeing how you lick but to each other, it really pathetic what this game looks now.
Yet even if you tell us the odds we cannot be sure in those because we are playing hidde and seek at your home. Honestly why are you doing this to a players. If player likes something why not struggle for that. You are amking decissions here
like this is PAY FOR PLAY GAME or is it . Cut the crap, leave things as they are. You dont know what being player looks like. You think that you are smart but in matter of fact you want to show that you are smart. Things will not go smooth like that.
We all know that this game is dying. You made sure for that. You deceived players with tokens. You are doing favours to your VIRTUAL friend. This is competition who can lick but better. This is a MMO game and act like that. Do you have a guts to make players vote?
No you dont because you are a tyrant in this game. Are you ashamed of any thing you ahve done? Now please move up your but and spend few hundreds hours to get a shiny and lets see what will happen.
This game is dying I would be worried if I were you. You are the one who can save it but guess you aren't helping yourself. LET PEOPLE TO VOTE. otherwise we all know what are you playing here. This is a game and stop doing that here. We are not guilty if your social life sucks. Think about it.
Once again. There is no going back. This used to be a game. And thanks for destroying it. Of course you always find some excuses since you are a staff. But look this thing real you were newer worthy of calling yourself a player, you are pathetic with your rank which was given by a freinds You are not in position to make those decision. Tell me how many things players turn back on you all. Shame you. To bad all that time you ahve wasted here jsut to proove that you are a idiot. Cut the the crap, get a life and respect people who are playing here.
someone who was thinking that is smart enough to make changes. You are all idiots if you ask why people are turning back from this game.
You destroyed everything what was good for players. When shiny boost was removed 17 people voted. 8 of them was for shiny boost and 9 of them was against.
Not weird since they lick but to each other. I wonder how can you decide what is good what is not if you are not even a player. We all know how you became a staff
and didnt took you much. Honestly excludind but lickers is there anyone of you who actually knows how hard is to get a shiny. Yet you aren't giving
people chance to vote. I wouldn't be suprised if you fix that voting in your favour as you did with shiny boost. This is disgusting seeing how you lick but to each other, it really pathetic what this game looks now.
Yet even if you tell us the odds we cannot be sure in those because we are playing hidde and seek at your home. Honestly why are you doing this to a players. If player likes something why not struggle for that. You are amking decissions here
like this is PAY FOR PLAY GAME or is it
. Cut the crap, leave things as they are. You dont know what being player looks like. You think that you are smart but in matter of fact you want to show that you are smart. Things will not go smooth like that.We all know that this game is dying. You made sure for that. You deceived players with tokens. You are doing favours to your VIRTUAL friend. This is competition who can lick but better. This is a MMO game and act like that. Do you have a guts to make players vote?
No you dont because you are a tyrant in this game. Are you ashamed of any thing you ahve done? Now please move up your but and spend few hundreds hours to get a shiny and lets see what will happen.
This game is dying I would be worried if I were you. You are the one who can save it but guess you aren't helping yourself. LET PEOPLE TO VOTE. otherwise we all know what are you playing here. This is a game and stop doing that here. We are not guilty if your social life sucks. Think about it.
Once again. There is no going back. This used to be a game. And thanks for destroying it. Of course you always find some excuses since you are a staff. But look this thing real you were newer worthy of calling yourself a player, you are pathetic with your rank which was given by a freinds
You are not in position to make those decision. Tell me how many things players turn back on you all. Shame you. To bad all that time you ahve wasted here jsut to proove that you are a idiot. Cut the the crap, get a life and respect people who are playing here.
Saric
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1. Someone seems to have not looked into the intention of this. This isn't to screw over players, it's to balance the economy and to prevent shinies from ruling the marketplace.Post1990 said:Once again we have a nice UPDATE from our fellow staffs. You should be all ashamed what have you done with this game. This used to be game once until
someone who was thinking that is smart enough to make changes. You are all idiots if you ask why people are turning back from this game.
You destroyed everything what was good for players. When shiny boost was removed 17 people voted. 8 of them was for shiny boost and 9 of them was against.
Not weird since they lick but to each other. I wonder how can you decide what is good what is not if you are not even a player. We all know how you became a staff
and didnt took you much. Honestly excludind but lickers is there anyone of you who actually knows how hard is to get a shiny. Yet you aren't giving
people chance to vote. I wouldn't be suprised if you fix that voting in your favour as you did with shiny boost. This is disgusting seeing how you lick but to each other, it really pathetic what this game looks now.
Yet even if you tell us the odds we cannot be sure in those because we are playing hidde and seek at your home. Honestly why are you doing this to a players. If player likes something why not struggle for that. You are amking decissions here
like this is PAY FOR PLAY GAME or is it
We all know that this game is dying. You made sure for that. You deceived players with tokens. You are doing favours to your VIRTUAL friend. This is competition who can lick but better. This is a MMO game and act like that. Do you have a guts to make players vote?
No you dont because you are a tyrant in this game. Are you ashamed of any thing you ahve done? Now please move up your but and spend few hundreds hours to get a shiny and lets see what will happen.
This game is dying I would be worried if I were you. You are the one who can save it but guess you aren't helping yourself. LET PEOPLE TO VOTE. otherwise we all know what are you playing here. This is a game and stop doing that here. We are not guilty if your social life sucks. Think about it.
Once again. There is no going back. This used to be a game. And thanks for destroying it. Of course you always find some excuses since you are a staff. But look this thing real you were newer worthy of calling yourself a player, you are pathetic with your rank which was given by a freinds
2. None of this is set in stone. The whole reason for this topic is for a discussion.
3. Most of the staff have been players in the past and as such know what it's like.
4. No one is being a tyrant, again, none of this is set in stone and this was to discuss what the populace thought.
5. The game is not dying. It is nowhere near it. The game still has plenty of players and plenty of people are still donating to support it.
6. Again, most of the staff have been a player before. It's not like they joined and instantly became staff.
7. I'm sorry but you're the one being an idiot here. You're being rash and jumping to things a bit too easily.
/end rant
I have spend lots of my money to buy MS until 2013-04-04.. I spend so much money becouse i think I have 300% shiney chance , i never has buy ms for have 200% chance, becouse i m not crazy for stay lots of days wallking in grass for no nothing..
After you change this you go give me my money back? Becouse i pay for 300% chance... not for 200%..
After you change this you go give me my money back? Becouse i pay for 300% chance... not for 200%..
First of all....
We must try to get all negative player out of the game... i know it is very hard, but this is a main point for seeing shiny rares as standart...
i know 4 people who searched every day 10 hours or more for a month in my guild and they find together 3 shiny rare... so its not so easy to find them, when you play honestly...
The other thing is:
After you can easy donate money, everybody get membership. So more people with a high shiny chance play and find good shiny.
In this case, I think its right to decrase the Shiny chance for Memberhsip.
Maybe you can decrase the Money for change attacks i think this would be a good compensation.
ps. I have membership and think this is a good idea.
We must try to get all negative player out of the game... i know it is very hard, but this is a main point for seeing shiny rares as standart...
i know 4 people who searched every day 10 hours or more for a month in my guild and they find together 3 shiny rare... so its not so easy to find them, when you play honestly...
The other thing is:
After you can easy donate money, everybody get membership. So more people with a high shiny chance play and find good shiny.
In this case, I think its right to decrase the Shiny chance for Memberhsip.
Maybe you can decrase the Money for change attacks i think this would be a good compensation.
ps. I have membership and think this is a good idea.
Wow... Post1990 is one really coward fellow. He doesn't even dare to show his true identity, he's hiding behind a fake account
By the way, I think Tmcm has a valid point. If the shiny chance will be reduced, members should be compensated by the extension of MS or in tokens, because several of them bought MS ONLY for the shiny chance. As an alternative, they could be offered an alternative: They can get some compensation, or get back their tokens for their Membership left and lose their member status. Or something like that.
By the way, I think Tmcm has a valid point. If the shiny chance will be reduced, members should be compensated by the extension of MS or in tokens, because several of them bought MS ONLY for the shiny chance. As an alternative, they could be offered an alternative: They can get some compensation, or get back their tokens for their Membership left and lose their member status. Or something like that.
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