Pokemon Updates

[fomer]

I don't think any of us are going to argue with Novo's analysis... he's the best battler around because he knows this stuff.

That said, it may end up being more work for you to adjust Slaking and then adjust him back after more updates.

I know you're not taking suggestions, BUT perhaps focusing on certain pokes that will be known counters to Slaking will balance things out.

Moves that come to mind are Close Combat, fighting pokes with stab and high attack and a 120 bp close combat may even be able to OHKO slaking (which would be glorious to see, though im sure Novo will correct my math )

The three Hoenn starters would, I think, be viable counters to Slaking with updated movesets. Swampert with Hammer Arm, Blaziken with Close Combat and Sceptile with his crazy speed and a stab'ed Leaf Storm.

Hariyama with Close Combat, Primeape and Heracross woould all become adequate counters. And to be honest I would love to see some good fighting types emerge now that teams with an uber Slaking, uber Tauros AND uber Snorlax are becoming quite common.

Heck, Novo will correct me again if I'm wrong but even a Pinsir with uber ATK and DEF and superpower could, I think beat a decent Slaking.

Unfortunately no fighting poke, even with Close Combat + Stab, would be able to 1 hit ko Slaking unless his stats are completely rubbish. But he would be able to do minimum of 80% damage to a slaking with good defenses and max hp. Also, majority of close combat pokes will be able to remove tauros in one close combat, meaning that using a fighting poke would actually be a viable decision, since if slaking took some damage, you know you can 1 shot it and if that opportunity doesn't arise, you at least know you can take out a tauros 100%.


For those who are complaining about Slaking's lack of Truant ability, I think are missing one crucial point. PWO has no TM's. Considering the fact that in the handhelds, you are able to teach Slaking Giga Impact, is on its own ridiculous. In PWO, with no TM's and having Slash being his most optimum move in damage output, he really is lacking damage output. The lack of truant ability here is irrelevant, unless we chose to let him learn Giga Impact or Frustration. This will just return to my argument that he's a Speedy Tank, but I assume you guys understand that via my previous posts.


Lastly, we need to understand that, despite Slaking being strong at the moment, any reduction to his stats or usefulness in combat will simply shift to a Tauros Spam. I find it somewhat hypocritical that we are proposing a nerf in Slaking without mentioning the fact that Tauros is producing 60 more damage PER Giga Impact compared to Slaking's Slash. Especially if you consider the fact that Tauros can 2 shot anything that he isnt 1/2x to and no poke out there can guarantee a 1 hit ko due to lack of close combat

why are u talkin abut tms ?? XD lol we will have to wait years to see the tms in pwo  :


slaking is overpowered now, then tauros, then dragonite, then snorlax, then feraligatr and the list goes.

 

[xNovoxx]

why are u talkin abut tms ?? XD lol we will have to wait years to see the tms in pwo  :

slaking is overpowered now, then tauros, then dragonite, then snorlax, then feraligatr and the list goes.

You're not understanding the point. You should re-read it. The current slaking is actually weaker than a slaking with truant ability if it were to be able to acquire the necessary movesets that would go along with the ability. Hence, if we were to introduce Truant Ability and give Slaking Giga Impact, it would essentially be a buff.

It all goes to say that the argument of the lack of Truant Ability is irrelevant to his strength at the moment since all the ability does is cut his expected output damage by half, seeing as it is already below half of what it would be with its current moveset restriction.

 

[fomer]

why are u talkin abut tms ?? XD lol we will have to wait years to see the tms in pwo  :

slaking is overpowered now, then tauros, then dragonite, then snorlax, then feraligatr and the list goes.

You're not understanding the point. You should re-read it. The current slaking is actually weaker than a slaking with truant ability if it were to be able to acquire the necessary movesets that would go along with the ability. Hence, if we were to introduce Truant Ability and give Slaking Giga Impact, it would essentially be a buff.

It all goes to say that the argument of the lack of Truant Ability is irrelevant to his strength at the moment since all the ability does is cut his expected output damage by half, seeing as it is already below half of what it would be with its current moveset restriction.

that was suggested before and it was not you kkk, you should re-read the old post
i think that what can be said has been said already,let the admin crenel do his job

now is slaking, then the people will complain about tauros, after auros feraligatr, after feraligatr your mew and etc, i wont reply anymore because i feel like im spamming trying to show others how smart i am  :

 

[junktalk]

why are u talkin abut tms ?? XD lol we will have to wait years to see the tms in pwo  :

slaking is overpowered now, then tauros, then dragonite, then snorlax, then feraligatr and the list goes.

You're not understanding the point. You should re-read it. The current slaking is actually weaker than a slaking with truant ability if it were to be able to acquire the necessary movesets that would go along with the ability. Hence, if we were to introduce Truant Ability and give Slaking Giga Impact, it would essentially be a buff.

It all goes to say that the argument of the lack of Truant Ability is irrelevant to his strength at the moment since all the ability does is cut his expected output damage by half, seeing as it is already below half of what it would be with its current moveset restriction.

I have to disagree with you here. Slaking was given such amazing stats to counter balance the truant ability. I think people are suggesting to reduce Slaking's stats is because of the lack of Truant which you do not think is a problem. Here is a scenario if Slaking have truant with his current stats against a Pokemon.

Typically, a Pokemon need to hit Slaking 3-5 times to kill it unless its super effective from a heavy hitter which will 2hko Slaking. 3 hits if you have a strong special attack, or a really high physical attack such as Giga Impact from Snorlax.

For example, I will use Steelix vs Slaking

Slaking will hit first with Hammer arm, which deals 1/3 to 1/2 of Steelix's health.

Steelix's Double Edge will take away about 1/4 of Slaking's health.

With truant, Steelix will actually get a chance to attack again. So Slaking's health is down to about half.

Slaking use another Hammer Arm, depending on Steelix's stats, it can take 1 more Hammer arm or it fainted.

Steelix use Double Edge, Slaking have around 1/4 of its HP left.

Dpending on the stats again, Slaking will either faint or survive to faint the Steelix next turn.

Without Truant, Steelix will be fainted in 3-4 hits. While Slaking will have at least 1/4 of its HP left.

This goes for other Pokemon as well. But how many Pokemon can actually take 3 hits from Slaking? So basically with a Slaking in your team, you are guarantee to take out 1 and a half of your opponent's Pokemon before Slaking is taking out. That is the stats a Legendary Pokemon can do. Not Slaking. Legendary Pokemon are given such high base stats because they are LEGENDARY. Slaking is given such high stats because the developer of the Pokemon game thinks he deserves it with the truant ability.

Also going by how the current moveset for Pokemon in PWO, Slaking will not have Giga Impact since it is a TM attack.

So the only normal attack Slaking can learn is Chip Away.



On a separate note, I really like the idea of updating other Pokemon's moveset instead of focusing so much on Slaking's moveset. If other Pokemon are given new movesets, Slaking will not be as big of a problem. It is the lack of a reliable counter that is really screwing the metagame.

 

[Saric]

Not to mention changing the base stats would completely screw over veekun and every other iv calculator.
@ junktalk, it gets slash and slash is a normal type.
and i do believe novo hit the nail on the head on the previous page.

Note : Everyone is just trying to push their own agenda. Those without an uber Slaking will be looking forward to his nerf due to Tauros replacing him, and being relatively easy to acquire due to it being VR. Those with Uber Slakings will try and protect him but if he does end up being nerfed, they know they can just hunt for a few days for a Tauros and they can easily be back into the competitive scene. Personally, I don't see massive issues with Slaking at the moment, seeing as Metagross essentially removes Slaking from the battle at a 99% probability and Metagross is largely accessibly to the masses. I personally can't believe that people are complaining that Rhydon and Steelix can't kill Slaking now, simply due to the fact that they were never reliable counters. Anyone who sends a Rhydon or a Steelix vs a Slaking was essentially begging for the PWO Gods to be generous.

 

[junktalk]

I did not see that quote. I agree with that as well.

But, with only 1 reliable counter which already limits how a person can build there team. They only have 5 spots left and if a person can get a Metagross, that person probably have a Slaking on their team. From what I've seen on PWO so far, every team have a Charizard, Slaking, and Dragonite. But that is the current metagame so I cannot ask the staffs to change the metagame which is silly.

Instead I tried to build a different team. Lets face it, it gets pretty boring facing the same Pokemon over and over again. The only team that I've seen that I really like was Risefromruins's all dragon team. It is awesome and unique compare to what I've battle so far. If any of you have even battled against my team, you will agree that it is different. Of course a Slaking would fit, but seriously, I am tired of seeing Slaking everywhere. So instead, I try to find a reliable Slaking counter which is only 1...a Metagross.

Update the moveset for other Pokemons so there are more options.

 

[Saric]

Honestly i'd just stop updating pokes with new movesets for the one's that are considered "psuedo legendary" in pwo until the battle system is more defined and complete. Update the other pokes sure. Just try not to touch the pseudo's if you dont have to.

 

[pieguy13]

Honestly i'd just stop updating pokes with new movesets for the one's that are considered "psuedo legendary" in pwo until the battle system is more defined and complete. Update the other pokes sure. Just try not to touch the pseudo's if you dont have to.

I like this idea a lot better. If you keep updating pokes that people deem "overused", it will create a lot more whining where if you update some more "underused" pokemon for the moment, some will become more useful in battle. Take Feraligatr for example. Many people just used Lapras, Starmie, Swampert, or (S) Gyarados as their main water type. But now, Feraligatr is more versatile as it has Superpower and Ice Fang to take out a much wider array of pokemon. I personally think the same of Nidoking. I used to think it was useless until quite recently.

 

[xNovoxx]

Honestly i'd just stop updating pokes with new movesets for the one's that are considered "psuedo legendary" in pwo until the battle system is more defined and complete. Update the other pokes sure. Just try not to touch the pseudo's if you dont have to.

I agree with this. Focus should be put on pokes who can actually challenge the high base stated pokes who currently dominate the competitive scene. This will improve the permutations of team selections massively in the short and long run.

@ Junktalk

I think the rigid team selection's are not down to lack of poke variety but lack of people's knowledge. I know for a fact that you can build a team without Slaking, Tauros OR Dragonite and still dominate the competitive scene, simply because you have the advanced knowledge that you can pretty much expect at least 1 or 2 of those 3 to be seen every fight. People complain too much about team diversity when they themselves contribute to its lack of it.

As for you disagreeing my interpretation of Slakings Truant ability, I only analysed the point of view of attacking someone at x1 efficiency , so my analysis is incomplete at looking at x2 efficiency's as you looked at it, so yes you are right in that view. Though just to add, when we had Focus punch dealing 100 damage at 50%, that means that your expected damage per turn would be 50. Knowing this, it would be almost half of the damage you would deal with a 100 damage hammer arm (Expected Damage of hammer arm is 90). So technically BEFORE the update of hammer arm, slaking was completely balanced without the truant ability, despite peoples view of him being overpowered.

Like I said, the update to slaking made him better in the view that, the pokes that "no one" used to counter slaking when he had focus punch die faster with a lot less hassle, but it also strengthened the only 100% counter he has, since hammer arm will guarantee that he can't 3 shot Metagross. Not to mention the speed decrease is actually a big negative which people fail to realize. So from this point of view the change improved him overall, but made him easier to counter at the same time.

I just look at the math, since technically the stats of a poke are irrelevant if he doesn't have the moveset to back it up. Truant ability halves a pokes expected damage. That is all it does from a statistical point of view. As long as a slaking who attacks every turn does not exceed that expected damage, he would be considered balanced, since its the same thing.

p.s. if we are going to compare slaking with truant ability, it means we are looking at the handheld version of slaking. If this is the case, then we are looking at the fact that he was developed with full knowledge of the customization options. I don't want to play the game of "they it cause of this or that", since in the end it's just heresay, but we analyze the handheld version, we do it with full knowledge that he can acquire TM's. Otherwise analysis lacks completion.

 

[crenel]

[list type=decimal]
[*]Slaking is the only Pokemon that commands the flow of battle, that's why it's being tinkered with
[*]I'm going down the list and will be updating every Pokemon to have correct moves assigned - I'm not going to skip any so that isn't an option
[*]Any changes I make to Slaking will be eased up as more of them are updated - I stated already that these aren't going to be long term changes
[*]If other Pokemon were having the same drastic impact on battles they would be tinkered with to be made more manageable as well
[*]I'm not catering to the elite competitive battle community, I'm catering to the overall game
[/list]

I'll have updates for Diglett and Dugtrio tonight or tomorrow.

 

[HeavyPetter]

Not to mention changing the base stats would completely screw over veekun and every other iv calculator.

Wrong. In my IV calculator it's simple to input base stats manually or change the stat file to get the new base stats when importing pokémon data. Check it out under user submitted programs

 

[pieguy13]

Wrong. In my IV calculator it's simple to input base stats manually or change the stat file to get the new base stats when importing pokémon data. Check it out under user submitted programs

Oh boy! Your calculator gets to be used for 1 whole pokemon! Veekun is much more appealing and quicker for every other pokemon

 

[HOF69]

Guess I'll add my two cents to this conversation.  My proposed solution is simply nuking both Focus Punch (as it already is) AND Hammer Arm, thus leaving Slaking with only two reliable moves: Faint Attack and Chip Away/Slash.  My reasoning for this is to make Slaking more like Tauros.  Despite Tauros having great speed and attack, as well as the amazing Giga Impact, it's generally not considered overpowered like Slaking is because unlike the latter, Tauros can't beat rock and steel types.  Both pokes have poor special defense, so the Jolteons, Starmies, Charizards, etc. of the game are reliable counters for both pokes as well.  The major difference is that the only rock or steel type that can be used as a reliable counter for Slaking is Metagross.  By nuking Hammer Arm and Focus Punch, a whole new set of reliable counters to Slaking are created (e.g. Tyranitar, Rhydon, Golem) while keeping Slaking as still one of the better battlers out there.

Just my thoughts.

 

[WindyFF]

The updates sound interesting. Hope  a new update with Kingdra. 8)

 

[rhyperior999]

Rhydon should get hammerarm too.It learns it via levelup at lv42.

 

[HeavyPetter]

Wrong. In my IV calculator it's simple to input base stats manually or change the stat file to get the new base stats when importing pokémon data. Check it out under user submitted programs

Oh boy! Your calculator gets to be used for 1 whole pokemon! Veekun is much more appealing and quicker for every other pokemon

What do you mean by "one whole pokemon"? You should try it. It imports new pokemon as fast as veekun i would say, you just type the name in a box.

EDIT: Oh, it seems I misread your post. It's quite obvious what you mean. I respect your opinion however I would appreciate to receive constructive suggestions of how I can improve it rather than being flamed for no reason.

 

[SViper]

This topic need by locked, because him become aggressive and crenel can't to continue work on 5th and 4th moves, 5th moves sets and stats of pokemons

 

[ash.catchem]

Why focus punch power is decreased, i thought moves are being corrected rather being made broken?
And is this updates follow on veekun also? as there is no option change base stats on veekun, atleast i can't find it, if there is any option plz tell me.
and one more questions why pokemon stats are being decreased?

 

[maadoo]

ash read the comments , you ll know y focus punch was broken, also the stats are actually being corrected to how they are supposed to be !

 

[maadoo]

crenel great job so far , i don t know if you already know about this site:
http://veekun.com/dex/gadgets/compare_pokemon

this site will give you the exact stats of each pokemon along with the updated moveset of generation5. just type the name of the poke and all the info will appear