Shiny rate change

[Kaneda]

Noticed a lot of talk about people finding oodles of shinies, figured I'd pipe up quickly. The appearance of Shiny is still a relatively rare occurance (im a member) and on several instances have merely killed it by accident, not noticing in time they were indeed shiny.

It doesn't seem to be too abundant event (in my account experience) as opposed to not being a member (although when opposed to the relative rariety of shinies in the original games, this is still a far cry from that).

 

[uk13jmoney]

i honestly dont think that changing the shiny rate at this point will help the economy. There are already way to many shiny pokemon in the game. The Issue at this point is not the amount of shinies coming into the game. The issue is that no pokemon are leaving the game. This game, in my opinion, lacks a major quality of an mmo. The pvp lacks any risk. There should be an area for advanced pvp where you actualy lose some pokemon if you lose your battles. This would add an excellent way for players to show off there strength and also a great way for pokemon to leave the game. that should pull the economy up well above where it is at now. If not a specific area. then maybe tournaments.

 

[Merse]

That's not how a Pokemon Battle works. It's not a Russian Roulette nor a gambling game. It's a noble duel with rules between two trainers and their teams of six Pokemon. Did you ever see/read about that anyone would lose anything if he lost a Pokemon Battle?
Currently shiny Pokemon still have some value a few hundred k-s. But if the shiny chance won't be changed soon, their value will drop even more! I agree that Pokemon should leave somehow the game, because that's the main issue why the prices are high, but you can't just force players to lose Pokemon. I was thinking about that a lot too, and my best idea was to make Pokemon exchangeable for Tokens. I mean from an NPC. Of course not for one Token, but a common for 0.0001, a Rare for 0.001, a VR for 0.01, a HR for 0.1, and if it's shiny it would multiply the tokens you get by 10. That would certainly remove some Pokemon from the market, especially those which don't have good stats.
But even this idea has some flaws...

 

[uk13jmoney]

im not saying my idea is flawless. i was just saying that there needs to be a system for pokemon leaving the game. I actually really like your idea of selling pokes to an npc. the only issue that presents is then people wont donate for tokens they will simply cash in pokemon making it almost imppossible for improvements to the game. Maybe rather than try to remove some pokemon from the game implement dark pokemon to the game. It would take some work but it would be as simple as replacing the S with a D and making the sparkles black. Every system for fixing the economy has its flaws but i just dont think simply making shinies harder to find is enough.

 

[uk13jmoney]

just out of curiosity. has the shiny rate changed. everyone i have talked to (mainly the guild i am in) has been finding alot less shiny pokemon.

 

[Chocobo7]

Nothing has changed yet, otherwise there would have been an announcement about it.

 

[crenel]

The only reason why people prefer shinies over non-shiny Pokemon is the fact that shiny Pokemon enjoy altered stats. They're on average much more powerful. People don't care about the shiny encounter rate as much as they care about the shiny power spread. If a shiny Pokemon had an identical chance to be as weak or as powerful as a non-shiny Pokemon then people would be less concerned.

Changing the encounter rate is good because it will reduce the number of shiny Pokemon we've seen over the years. That number has frankly been too high. It would be interesting to see a study conducted on shinies in general. I'm interested in knowing how many players in the game currently own max level shiny Pokemon. I'm interested in knowing which shiny Pokemon appear to be the most prevalent and farmed in relation to their encounter rating; for example, is there a disproportionate number of shiny Arcanine when compared to the number of other Rare-level Pokemon? I'm interested in knowing how many shiny Pokemon currently in use at max level were captured by their owners. I'm interested in knowing how many shiny Pokemon currently in use at max level were captured by accounts with membership.

Without that information, having a solid opinion is like taking a shot in the dark. You may as well be asking people to choose their favorite musical group from the year 2032. We might have a pretty solid idea of who is going to be around in 20 years, but we wouldn't have enough information to provide you with an actual answer. Those within the staff handling this should be asking those questions and answering them before posting topics like this. (Note to players: I don't know if they have been asking those questions or not, as I've been inactive.)

The root of the problem isn't the mechanics behind why there's too many shiny Pokemon. It's the social reason. Without changes to their stats, shiny Pokemon will still be an item of prestige... just without the additional baggage of making you suddenly "good" in competitive battling. If we want to get super deep into it, the overarching problem is the lack of EV values, TMs and Breeding. Until there is a way for competitive players to put some thought and skill and experimentation into their teams beyond "This Pokemon with These Moves" then the players are going to continue to want shiny Pokemon as the only way to really stand out or modify or upgrade their teams.

If the rate is changed (which I think it should be -- in fact I think it should be normalized to 1/8192) then it needs to be done with an active intent to solve some of these other issues. Otherwise you're just throwing salt into the ocean; it's pointless.

I'm not posting as a staff member or as a player. I'm posting as an observer.

 

[witchmest]

I think the way the drop rates are right now are sufficient enough.. I talk to my friends who play the game who have been playing way longer than me and they havent come across a S pokemon, on the other hand, I was lucky enough to get one within the first couple of days playing.. If anything, increase the money drop rate by 15-25% so items are more easily bought as a noob such as potions and pokeballs which seem impossible to buy when you start out.

 

[MacCollin]

Well a lot of the points that form my oppinion where might have been posted yet but i d like to give a statement on this topic, too.

at the current state of this game this change wont change much in the short- and midterm and the changes based on a longterm view are also not the ones that i would personally like to see in that game. first of all the shiny encounter is based on luck. the increase of this chance that you might be able to encounter a shiny through membership is not only a motivation factor for a wide player base to buy membership and support the server and staff through that donation, it also helps to decrease the worth of several overpriced shiny pokemon which makes them available for the poor playerbase aswell as new players. a change in the rate would get the shinies back to their highly inflationed pricesegment where no one would benefit beside the players that started horting shinies after this thread was opened. don t get me wrong (you can check my in game computer) i would definatly profit a lot if the rate would be changed but i m not a fan of "making rich people richer and poor people more poor"-stuff.

however, i like that idea in general but its not the time to implement this change. in my opinion the right time would be after the final version is out including the new server with a non-broken/fixed/changed/whatever economy. in general this change makes only sense if there would be a wipe / new server.

 

[Merse]

1) You must test things before you put them into a final release. You can't be sure how would the changed shiny chance effect the economy exactly. Putting anything untested into a final release is like taking a shot with eyes closed.
2) You missed the point of shiny Pokemons. They shouldn't be available for everyone, they should be next to non-existing. Only a handful of people should ahve any shiny at all.
3) Shiny commons already have ridiculous prices.
4) I doubt that there would be any "final release" in the following few years

 

[CoolKnightST]

1) You must test things before you put them into a final release. You can't be sure how would the changed shiny chance effect the economy exactly. Putting anything untested into a final release is like taking a shot with eyes closed.
2) You missed the point of shiny Pokemons. They shouldn't be available for everyone, they should be next to non-existing. Only a handful of people should ahve any shiny at all.
3) Shiny commons already have ridiculous prices.
4) I doubt that there would be any "final release" in the following few years

• Shiny could indeed be something to available for everyone but not in the case where they are buffed like now. They infact could still have value is they had thesame stats like an regular pokémon. Maybe they could be in the futhur but with an higher max EV (what currently is not finished yet).
• Shinys should not rule the world. For example an default party with 5 shinys just is not how the game should be like.
• During tradable shinys can be switched between accounts make it more an default for players to have an full party of shinys. Currently shinys rule the economy and are the reasons of some rich players. I gues more taxes will come if it stays like this. If shinys where untradable an better ballance for the shiny encounter could be made. But since everyone desagreas with idea I gues the problem will remain for now.
• Shinys aren't an collector pokémon anymore but an seriously overpowerd version of the existing pokémon. An bit like an pokémon an steriodes.

I think it's stuppid to keep an poll for this. You known it's an problem and there won't be an fix without complains. Make an new poll with these options:

• Remove the stats buff for shinys. They will just become regular pokémon with another color (collector pokémons)
• Make shinys untradable
• Drop the shiny chance for members (for non-members can be discussed but never that massive as member because of economical reasons)
• Drop the shiny chance slightly for members and remove the stats buff. Shinys get an increased max EV.

I wonder what the result would be from that poll.

 

[Merse]

What buff are you talking about? Shinies had even in the handheld games all 28+ IVs. No other buff happened. And in fact, you can get pseudo-shiny Pokemon with better stats than a shiny one (just one useless stat has 28- IV), so I can't see what's the issue.
The point of PWO is to be as similar to the original games as possible. That includes shiny Pokemon as well. But as the XP gain had to be reduced because it's an MMO, SC should be reduced as well for the same reason. But shinies don't have to be nerfed at all...

 

[CoolKnightST]

No hard feelings but I never ever encountered an shiny pokémon in the 1st, 2th and 3rth gen. With the exeption of the Gyarados what was in that quest. And I played long enouge in that time. I didn't even known they exisit untile I saw an topic on an wiki. I encounter only 1 shiny pokémon in Viridian Forest here an pwo so I think the encounter rates are fine but member encounter them like 10 times more...

 

[CheckeredZebra]

Actually, Merse...

"Now you'd think with a Pokémon this rare, it has to have good Individual Values and such. That's no longer the case. Shiny Pokémon are always going to end up with the same odds of good stats as normal Pokémon. They used to have set IV's in the Metal generation, but not in this one."
-Serebii.net

And in Gen II (the metal gen they're referring to) the IVs were like 10 or something. In other words, not very good. =X

EDIT: Ah, here it is for bulbapedia
In Generation II, Shininess is determined by the IVs of a Pokémon. If a Pokémon's Speed, Defense, and Special IVs are 10, and its Attack IV is 2, 3, 6, 7, 10, 11, 14 or 15, it will be Shiny. "

So, in this regard, PWO is not being accurate to the handhelds.

 

[Jinji]

Of course, in Gen I and II the maximum IV that each stat could reach was 15, not 31 as it became in later Generations. So 10, while not the highest, is still above average. This means a Shiny would be decent but not epic in most stats, while the Attack could range from stupidly low to maximally high.

I should note Checkered is only repeating a point I made months ago, though - Shiny Pokémon have NEVER been the strongest available in official games.

 

[CheckeredZebra]

Of course, in Gen I and II the maximum IV that each stat could reach was 15, not 31 as it became in later Generations. So 10, while not the highest, is still above average. This means a Shiny would be decent but not epic in most stats, while the Attack could range from stupidly low to maximally high.

I should note Checkered is only repeating a point I made months ago, though - Shiny Pokémon have NEVER been the strongest available in official games.

Woah, talk about a nifty tidbit, I never knew that! Either way, it was a system that's been long dropped. =X

 

[Merse]

Hmmm... My bad then. Actually, I wouldn't be too sad, if shinys would be changed according to that way. So I wouldn't be forced to use shinys in my team
(But I still would want a S Charizard )

 

[CoolKnightST]

Hmmm... My bad then. Actually, I wouldn't be too sad, if shinys would be changed according to that way. So I wouldn't be forced to use shinys in my team
(But I still would want a S Charizard )

Well that's it, even if shinys where equal to regular pokémon they will still be an markt for them. Just because they are more rare.

 

[Bashfluff]

I don't know what should happen with shiny Pokemon. Nerfing them or nerfing their encounter rate for members sounds like a blow, but it might be a necessary evil. What I DO know is that if you do, there should be other benefits added to pick up the slack. I don't know if money or exp is a suitable replacement, and I don't know what else that could be added that's just as good, unless you wanna go with adding Metallic, Dark, or Ghost Pokemon (Hurray for a reference that no one will get!). I don't envy the devs here.

 

[Merse]

There are already many steel (Steelix, Scizor, Foretress), dark (Tyranitar) and ghost (Gengar, Misdreavus, Froslass, Dusclops) types in the game...