Shiny rate change

What is your position on the change to shiny rate?

  • The rate should be changed to 1/4096 no matter what.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The rate should be changed to 1/4096 only if there are more membership bonuses.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The rate should be changed to 1/4096 in the distant future but not now.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The rate should stay at 1/2048 because I think it will break the economy.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The rate should stay at 1/2048 because it is the only reason I donate for membership.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The rate should stay at 1/2048 because I see no reason why it should change.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
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CoolKnightST

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Here's maybe another solution for "The rate should be changed to 1/4096 only if there are more membership bonuses.". Thr idea is simply to add some member only quests that give an shiny pokémon as rewarded like caterpie/weedle, nidoran male/female, Plusle/Minun, Kabuto/Omanyte, Jigglypuff/Clefairy, ...
 

Naero

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CoolKnightST said:
Here's maybe another solution for "The rate should be changed to 1/4096 only if there are more membership bonuses.". Thr idea is simply to add some member only quests that give an shiny pokémon as rewarded like caterpie/weedle, nidoran male/female, Plusle/Minun, Kabuto/Omanyte, Jigglypuff/Clefairy, ...

Although I would concur to the addition of more membership benefits in the future, I'd have to politely disagree with any shiny Pokemon being added as a quest reward. From my point of view, a general principle to shiny Pokemon is for them to be obtained by sheer luck in hunting for them; making them obtainable by another reproducible method, such as a quest reward, would diminish not only the market value of the shiny Pokemon (regardless of its rarity), but also the scarcity of the shiny counterpart of a Pokemon, even if it was strictly selective for only a handful of Pokemon. The shiny property of a Pokemon is renowned for being an elusive counterpart to encounter, thus it's sheer luck that spawns them - there's a reason why there's a chance for a shiny outcome of a Pokemon on the token store (if 2 tokens above the standard price is paid), for example, rather than being directly able to purchase the shiny counterpart.

Additionally, I also believe that there should be a fine line between exclusive content and in-game/playerdex benefits for users under membership status - preferably falling in the latter category for all membership features, though that slightly derails the main point of discussion.

Just my personal thoughts.
 

Merse

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I'd like to add the economical perspective to that as well. Any Pokemon which you receive for free at the end of a quest has the value of exactly 0 (zero). Because everyone who finishes hte quest has one. See the example of Farfech'd. You get one for free in the Ilex Forrest, so a normal one, no matter what has no value whatsoever on the market. Only shiny Farfech'ds can be sold.
 

MiddleMan

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I don't like it. To much difference between old rich players and new members that will struggle.
 

PokeViper

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I would say its a bad idea to change the rate now. As many others have said, i believe it will create a wider gap in the economy between veteran players and new players. Which will eventually turn new players away due to their inability to "Catch up" persay.

If new players only have HALF the chance (with membership) to catch Shinies, versus what long term players had, what will be the purpose of donating 6 dollars for 30 days? I can just put a tiny bit more effort into leveling my pokes. And 100% more cash? Pfft who cares. I can farm VR's/HR's and still make some decent cash.

As a member myself right now, it feels like this change was already implemented. I have gone days and days and days without seeing one shiny. And i have been farming for pokes. Like Hitmonchan. I was also leveling pokes in Digletts Cave B3F. And not a SINGLE shiny. So even if the change wasnt implemented, the chance for Shinies is still pretty low.

The market is already saturated with lots of Shiny pokemon. Consider this a part of the intended design for PWO, and move on to other things you could devote your time and energy into. Cause changing this thing, could possibly hurt the game population, severely cripple the economy and the desire to donate in the future for many many players. How many players do you think have these shiny pokes stocked up right now? Lots of people are in trade right now buying shinies. I bet in anticipation of this change. They're just ready to monopolize the market. Let's not have that happen, please.
 

HitmonFonty

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On the other hand if enough rich people are buying up the shiny pokemon on the market right now, that could in itself reduce the amount of shinies available and make the price go back up a bit. O0
 

dea7th

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not exactly. Alot of rich players will play this like poker. they will see the cards delt and they will fold. Its that simple. because your gunna wait for the big hand to come up right? I garentee that hoarding shinypokes has been going on for quite some time and i believe people are multi botting in order to purchase more shinies without the intention of selling them right away, they will store it on a safe account and continue to fill their bank for the purpose as stated above monopolizing the market. They are going to cash their chips out when the poke mart auction w/e opens up. And by that time the pokemon would have been traded so far and wide between accounts and resold. It would be to late to stop them.

So im not really seeing anything here other then a set up for a big domino effect. The shiny reduction rate is based on greed, so that it creates elitism for past and new players. The solution is there needs to be more in game monitoring, yo reduce and possibly track down these shiny horders and ban them for good before the pokemart comes out. That way you won't see the hidden saturation that lies in the churning volcano below our feet. You might think the economy is bad now. i garentee the prices are the result of a number of few masterminds with 10+ multi client accounts that are farming money and purposely setting prices low to buy up.

If you reduce the shiny chance, your only making that step that much easier for them because they only have to farm money, and keep the prices low well the server suffers with decreased rates. then when the player mart comes out.... boom... its everything they have ever wanted. Hardly any shinys in circulation then suddenly youl see a multiude of S arcanines s vulplixs and so on for reduclious prices all sold by some of the same people.

Thats what your going to see, and they will purchase s dratini and everything else they dreamed up, well making the game impossible to play for everyone else.
 

mad30

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Haven't given this much thought as I don't concern myself with the economy of buying/selling pokes too much, but if everyone hoarded the shiny pokemon now, then sell them all when the pdex mart goes live and if/when this reduction happens wouldn't that create a ton of shiny pokemon on the market plus only less wealthy players will want them equaling a high demand by those with little money creating a situation where pokemon prices may actually DECLINE for a short period of time?

Yes we are reducing the rate by half, however the rate is so common at the moment that I do not believe it will create as large of an effect as people believe. Other than the players over-reacting I doubt much of an effect will be felt for a long time, perhaps longer than even a year. You will still have a rate of shiny pokemon 2.5 times LESS than the rate of horribly rare pokemon if this change occurs.
 

PokeViper

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Yes we are reducing the rate by half

Almost sounds as if this decision has already been made. Yet the polls on this thread right now show a majority of voters do not want the change to occur. The 2nd highest majority say that IF the change was to occur, that there should be an increase of benefits to membership.

however the rate is so common at the moment

The rate might be common for people who have tens of hours to play every single day. But for those of us who can only play a couple hours here or there out of the week, the rate is FAR from common. I just purchased another membership a few days back. Since then i haven't witnessed a single Shiny, and i have been farming and leveling pokes left and right to try and finish off the Gyms. This feels much different than the 1st time i purchased a membership. It feels as if this change has already occurred as i said in my previous post.

Until this entire deal is fleshed out more i won't be thinking of membership again for quite some time.

PS - This is not over reacting. $6.00 a month, for 100% more money and 50% more experience with a only a slight increase in shiny chance just isnt worth it in my book. Apparently it is not worth it to the majority of voters too. The entire purpose behind my(and again apparently a majority of voters) purchase of membership is strictly for the Shiny chance increase it used to give.
 

mad30

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PokeViper said:
Yes we are reducing the rate by half

Almost sounds as if this decision has already been made. Yet the polls on this thread right now show a majority of voters do not want the change to occur. The 2nd highest majority say that IF the change was to occur, that there should be an increase of benefits to membership.
ugh.. was in class and was editing a bunch of stuff and miss said that.

I assure you no decision has been made yet... The staff hasn't even discussed anything past posing this question to everyone.

I apologize for misunderstandings that may have come from that.

I'll go ahead and say I won't support any change until a majority of the player base is in agreement.
 

PokeViper

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Ok, where is my "Like" button for your post? lol Thx for the update and clarification.
 

Merse

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PokeViper said:
The rate might be common for people who have tens of hours to play every single day. But for those of us who can only play a couple hours here or there out of the week, the rate is FAR from common. I just purchased another membership a few days back. Since then i haven't witnessed a single Shiny, and i have been farming and leveling pokes left and right to try and finish off the Gyms. This feels much different than the 1st time i purchased a membership. It feels as if this change has already occurred as i said in my previous post.

You're misunderstanding the whole purpose of shinys. You think you should be able to see them? At all? Nope, you should not be able to see more than one in 1000 hours of gameplay. You should be unbelievably jealous if you see someone with one. How many shiny Pokes you saw while you played Pokemon on handhelds? One, if you're lucky, but most likely none. How many hours did you spend with those games altogether? Maybe even more 500, if you played all of them.
This should be the rate here. It is totally insane that players expect and demand to see shinys. That's the main problem of other Pokemon MMOs, it's way too easy to find a shiny. It is ridiculous. Shiny Pokemon is like an albino child in human reproduction (talking about rarity).

mad30 said:
I'll go ahead and say I won't support any change until a majority of the player base is in agreement.
You can't expect that ever would happen... First, because newer players would always be jealous of the veterans. Secondly, because a significant part of the community is simply too lazy. They want to catch shinys but they don't want to spend weeks just to find a S Common. Thirdly, this poll is not even representative. 147 votes, while the community has at least 2-3000 active members, but most of them don't visit the forum. And even if they would come here just to vote, they wouldn't read the arguments about the reduction, so they would click NO by reflex/greed.


And finally, the standings is 74-73 in favor of no change. I wouldn't call this a "vast majority." And from that 74, 51 don't want this change only because they wouldn't buy MS if this change would happen. So their only argument is greed, and not game balance or something more reasonable.
 

mad30

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Merse said:
mad30 said:
I'll go ahead and say I won't support any change until a majority of the player base is in agreement.
You can't expect that ever would happen... First, because newer players would always be jealous of the veterans. Secondly, because a significant part of the community is simply too lazy. They want to catch shinys but they don't want to spend weeks just to find a S Common. Thirdly, this poll is not even representative. 147 votes, while the community has at least 2-3000 active members, but most of them don't visit the forum. And even if they would come here just to vote, they wouldn't read the arguments about the reduction, so they would click NO by reflex/greed.


And finally, the standings is 74-73 in favor of no change. I wouldn't call this a "vast majority." And from that 74, 51 don't want this change only because they wouldn't buy MS if this change would happen. So their only argument is greed, and not game balance or something more reasonable.
Heres how I look at it
The poll is a sample of the overall population. The sample represents the attitudes of the overall playerbase (yes a very bad representation for all those who want to dig into it further I know). What I am looking for is 50.01% of the players who choose to answer. I am treating this like an election vote and players are voting on a topic.
 

Merse

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Even though, the current questions are wrong. Now a significant part of the voters answer the questions "Do you want your membership benefits to be reduced?" instead of "Do you think that shiny Pokemon are too common?" Obviously, someone who just comes around instantly says "NO", because they don't understand what's this all about.
To get a more clear picture about the real opinion of the players the questions should be reformulated and the possible benefits which would replace the shiny chance be revealed. Even if they are only vague ideas. Otherwise players still more likely will chose "NO", because they know that increased SC is a certain and good thing to have. But it is uncertain what else the staff in mind to compensate the reduction of SC, so they chose what is already certainly good for them. They won't take the risk.
 

mad30

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Merse said:
Even though, the current questions are wrong. Now a significant part of the voters answer the questions "Do you want your membership benefits to be reduced?" instead of "Do you think that shiny Pokemon are too common?" Obviously, someone who just comes around instantly says "NO", because they don't understand what's this all about.
To get a more clear picture about the real opinion of the players the questions should be reformulated and the possible benefits which would replace the shiny chance be revealed. Even if they are only vague ideas. Otherwise players still more likely will chose "NO", because they know that increased SC is a certain and good thing to have. But it is uncertain what else the staff in mind to compensate the reduction of SC, so they chose what is already certainly good for them. They won't take the risk.
This is the plan. The poll system on the forums is very limiting so I made a quick poll to get the general attitude of the players. The next time around I will be using the poll system crenel did awhile ago in one of his topics where you had to visit another site and answered various question about PWO staff.
 

king1234

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PokeViper said:
Ok, where is my "Like" button for your post? lol Thx for the update and clarification.

the old forums before this one had a like button.
 

Saric

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king1234 said:
PokeViper said:
Ok, where is my "Like" button for your post? lol Thx for the update and clarification.

the old forums before this one had a like button.
Nah, the ones before this one was SMF. You're thinking of IPBoards i do believe.
 

Jinji

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I can't remember if we actually enabled Karma on our SMF Forum or not back when we used it...
 

Georges1

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i didnt read all posts till now but my opinion is make money increase from 100% to 200% and decrease the shiny chance to 1/4096...that will help players that play lots of hours and the S HRs will be left in peace..anyway membership will continue been very useful then in my opinion..
 

voltagens

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well, i haven't played PWO that much, neither for a consecutive time, i've left and come and come and left, so i'm probably not the best guy to argue over PWO specificaly, so i'll make my statement sort of based on what i've seen in other MMO's i've played through my life, and i've been playing them for almost over a decade, pay2play, or free2play. Or even the infamous pay2win. (where most f2p are these days unfortunably)

i've read the topic, and i'll try to give my opinion now, so first things first, and concerning pokemon and pwo respectively, i need to agree with what Merse has been saying in the last posts, finding a shiny should be a moment of joy, a unique event not supposed to happen. In the handhelds i played (1st and 2nd gen), i've played them over and over again in their time, i've only seen TWO shinnys, and one was the gyarados in that lake in gen2 that everyone had. I don't even remember the other one. I bet it was the same with the lot of you. Thus making it an extremely rare event (i've read someone saying that, in terms of probability, beeing hit by a lightning is higher than seeing a shinny, that should pretty much state it). In PWO it seems that people with MS expects to see them 'around the corner', which is, in my opinion, perfectly wrong.

Talking about economy now, a mmo without a good economy, is halfway to a 'dead' mmo. I've seen some quite good mmo's, with decent playerbase and a stable economy, with some good items on the cash shop but not to the point it was a pay2win game, where the economy was completly destroyed, and a lot of people simply quit the game and moved on, making it a dead game.
Why am i saying this, well, i've read some topics on the forums, and saw alot of people commenting about it on the gamechat, that the economy is broken, that they won't sell in this economy, and stuff like that. Myself i remember the last time i've played, selling a pinsir for 700 or 800k, that paid me my surfboard and bike, if it was now, i doubt it can even pay the surfboard :p
I might be saying a big nonsense now, but i think one of the things that messed up with economy during that time (and correct me if i'm wrong) were the increase of people catching more shinnys. I'm not even taking normal pokes into account in there (although it matters), but the simple fact that more and more people were using MS, because it boosts their chances and help thems catch up to the top-tier guys, more and more shinnys (and again, non-shinnys) were beeing caught, saturated the market. I dunno how this game was in the early days, but i bet it evolved smthing like 'i want that pokemon', 'i want that pokemon with a good xpto stat', 'i want that pokemon with good stats overall', 'i want that pokemon with a, b and c top stats' 'i want a shinny'. And what you should be aiming, is a poke with good stats overall/some top stats, not a shinny, like i said before, they should be smthing ultra rare ingame.

Just to clarify one thing now, if there is a MS system, i don't bother with it offering advantages to the ones who uses them, much more in a game like this, where the money goes for server maintenance and stuff like that, and not for profit of the devs, as long as it doesn't turn it into a pay2win situation. And seeing people saying 'i only pay for increased shinny chance', is, a pay2win situation. I agree that there must be an increased chance, but not to the point of people saying that, not to the point of 'i'm farming 6h/day for 3 days and 0 shinnys'. Either give bigger bonuses or add some new ones to replace it. I know that alot of moves are broken in PWO, and alot of pokes are useless because of that, but if a poke with, lets say, decent moves, plus it's a shinny, it should be worth of reajusting your lineup because of that, because you don't see a shinny everyday, because it has good stats and so on. And lets face it, you can never reach the level of any old active player. Taking other mmo's into account, you could get the best gear for your class, the best enchants for it, everything, but you will never have the gold, or the items in storage of an old player, because he continues to play, to farm gold and gather stuff. He will allways be the very first to buy/craft the just-new release set because he can afford it, and you don't, you'll have to farm some more mats/gold, and wait for your time to get it.

All this to say that, in my point of view, reducing shinny chances will make them more valuable, and therefore, pokes with good/top stats too. Of course prices will drop at the beggining, because 'everyone' got alot of them, and will undercut over undercuts for fast profits, but as the game proceeds, with new players comming, and shinny drops halved, people will start to look for the good/top stats too, making them valuable. And of course, letting the realy good/shinny to the restrict number of people who can realy afford them. But since top/shinny's are less commons, if you had the luck of getting one of those, you could earn good money, and start to climb your way in the market, getting a better one, then an HR one, then an HR with tops stats, then a shinny, you get my point. It's pretty much impossible to get to the lvl of the realy old and active players, just deal with it.


Anw sorry for the long wall of text, probably i've said alot of crap in there, but has i've stated in the 1st paragraph, i'm not, by far, the best one to argue on this matter, just wanted to left my 2 cents uppon the experience i had in other games, and from what i've seen in PWO in the times i played. Kudos for anyone who've read through this whole post.
 
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