Broken Moves

[Friko]

Move Name: Final gambit
Move type: fighting
What it currently does: nothing
What needs to be done to make it work: User faints, enemy loses HP equal to how much the user HAD before fainting
_____________
Move Name: Slack Off
Move Type: Normal
What it does: Nothing
What needs to be fixed: Slack off is a variant of Recover, in which the user heals back UP TO 50% of the HP he has.
_______________
Move Name: Last resort
Type: Normal
What it does: hits with base 140 power
What needs to be fixed: Last resort can only be used after all other moves have been used atleast once, if not that, then lower the power.
____________
Move Name: Absorb
Type: Grass
What it does: Does damage
What needs to be fixed: Does 20 power damage, heals user by 1/2 damage dealt.
______________
Move Name: Mega drain
Type: Grass
What it does: Does Damage
What needs to be fixed: Does 40 power damage, heals user by 1/2 damage dealt.
______________
Move Name: Giga drain
Type: Grass
What it does: Does Damage
What needs to be fixed: Does 75 power damage, heals user by 1/2 damage dealt. (for instance, Parasect used Giga drain on onix (has..106hp, so parasect gets 53HP back...instead of 12HP as ive seen in-game)
_____________
Move Name: Milk Drink
Type: Normal
What it does: Nothing
What needs to be fixed: Variant of Recover, heals UP TO half HP of user.
_____________
Move name: Rest
type: Normal
What it does: Nothing
What needs to be fixed: Firstly the user falls under sleep status, and fully recovers HP and status conditions, such a burn paralyze and poison.
_____________
Move name: Moonlight
Type: Normal
What it does: nothing
What needs to be fixed: Variant of Recover, heals up to half HP of user, under Sunny Conditions: heals 80% of Users hp, under rain/hail/sandstorm conditions, heals 30% of Users HP.
_____________
Move name: Morning sun
Type: Normal
what it does: nothing
What needs to be fixed: Variant of Recover, Exactly the same as moonlight.
_____________

plz fix

 

[BlackBloodz]

It's not really a move ,,
But im talking about Freeze status when using move such as Ice beam , billizard , ... etc
Freeze always have no effect
so it would be cool to be added

 

[Friko]

above

snip

I already knew of all these happenings, I've played since the beginning of PWO, and thank you for your explanation on the topic at hand, but outside of a lack of resources the point you make isn't completely valid, dropping a players defense by merely 33.3% would not allow for rattata to OHKO, nor raising a metapods defense by 50% make it much harder to kill. The original Random raises were highly ineffective, i agree with that. As i do recall on several occasions, fighting metapod with them gaining 50+ Defense and whatnot. Or Owning my Typhlosion and using Flame charge and gaining +33 speed. Although, Raising a metapods Defense by 10, is still MORE than raising it by 50% of the original number (within lower levels). As it would only raise a level 4-6 metapods defense from 10-12 to 15 or 18, instead of raising it from 10 to 20, or 12 to 22. Its also more effective on the higher levels as well, being as raising by 10 in higher levels does not cause much of a change, leading to the moves never seeing PVP play though. Alas, as you have said, no resources, I can wait.....I only wish it was available previous to this tournament.

 

[CrimsonSapphire]

Paralyze effect should be fix too, it doesn't ignore speed.

 

[Tecknician]

SNIP
Brain too fried to come up with equation, just.....try it.

Formulas for only using current stat and original stat. I will have to see if wanted to use stages. Are there any moves that when use increases/decreases stat by more than 1 stage at a time? Otherwise I will adjust formulas to use stages instead. Actually could probably just run through that formula multiple times for moves that affect it by more than 1 stage.
for increase stats
current stat + (original stat *.5*stages) = new stat
100 as original stat
1st stage
100 + 50 = 150% (1.5)

2nd state
150 + 50 = 200% (2)

3rd state
200 + 50 = 250% (2.5)

for decreasing stats
100 * current /(original + current/2)
1st stage
100 * 100 /(100 + 50) = 100 * .66

2nd stage
100 * 66/(100 + 33) = 100 * .49

3rd stage
100 * 49/(100 + 24) = 100 * .39

 

[Friko]

If you looked i had the first equation.

 

[Tecknician]

If you looked i had the first equation.

Wasn't a useable equation.

 

[sagarpatel740]

Move Name:eruption
Move type(fire, grass, normal):fire
What it currently doesower 75 , accuracy 100
What makes it broken: make it to power 150 accuracy 100(i know it will make this poke over powerful with this power .... but since many pokes have generation 5 moves so they are powerful know ...it 150 power is still powerful then u can make more than 120 power ... so that it will be fine to use it in battle )

Move Name: outrage
Move type(fire, grass, normal):dragon
What it currently doesowe 95 accuracy 95
What makes it broken make it to power 97 and accuracy 100(power 97 becasue it feel really bad when it can beat shiny kingdra with one hit .....)

same problem with gigaimpact and thrash .. the power and accuracy must improve
ty

 

[HitmonFonty]

In addition to the listed moves below if you could get critical hits to be included in the game I'm sure everyone would love you forever. ;D

Critical Hits: Double Power of Attack and Ignores all Temporary Stat Changes.
The frequency of Critical Hits varies a lot, I would suggest for the purpose of PWOs current battling status 10% for all attacks would be a fair compromise. http://www.psypokes.com/lab/criticalhits.php

Move Name: Dragon Rage

Spoiler

Move type(fire, grass, normal): Dragon
What it currently does: 40 base power dragon type damage



What makes it broken: Should do 40 points damage always regardless of att/def/stat changes/defender typing etc.



What needs to be done to make it work: Make it just remove 40 points from opponents' HP.

Move Name: Sonicboom

Spoiler

Move type(fire, grass, normal): Normal
What it currently does: 20 base power normal damage



What makes it broken: Should do 40 points damage always regardless of att/def/stat changes/defender typing etc.


What needs to be done to make it work: Make it just remove 20 points from opponents HP

Move Name: Seismic Toss

Spoiler

Move type(fire, grass, normal): Fighting (currently typeless I believe)
What it currently does: Typeless damage 75 base power.



What makes it broken: This may have been deliberately changed to typleless to give some fighting pokemon a chance vs ghosts? Whether it was done deliberately or not I think if it can be changed to fighting type AND to deal the amount of HP per level of the pokemon using it then it would no longer be broken.



What needs to be done to make it work: Change to Fighting Type. Make it deal damage equal to Pokemon attackers Level.

Move Name: Night Shade

Spoiler

Move type(fire, grass, normal): ghost
What it currently does: 50 damage (possibly typeless damage now not sure)



What makes it broken: Should do damage to oponents' HP equal to level of attacking pokemon.



What needs to be done to make it work: Make it deal damage equal to pokemon attackers level.

Move Name: Super Fang

Spoiler

Move type(fire, grass, normal): Normal
What it currently does: 1 power normal damage (according to wiki)



What makes it broken: It should reduce the opponents' current HP by half.



What needs to be done to make it work: Make the move reduce the current HP of defender by half.

Move Name: False Swipe

Spoiler

Move type(fire, grass, normal): Normal
What it currently does: 40 normal type damage



What makes it broken: It should not make oponent pokemon faint.



What needs to be done to make it work: Set move to leave or return 1HP remaining on Opponent pokemon in case of overkill.

Move Name: Endeavor

Spoiler

Move type(fire, grass, normal): normal
What it currently does: zero damage according to wiki



What makes it broken: It should reduce the opponent pokemon HP to equal the Attacker Pokemon HP.



What needs to be done to make it work: Make the target pokemon HP equal to the user pokemons' HP.

Well, except for the people who lose battles on critical hits. They will hate you until their next win.

 

[BlackBloodz]

It's not really a move ,,
But im talking about Freeze status when using move such as Ice beam , billizard , ... etc
Freeze always have no effect
so it would be cool to be added

Also , The moves Crunch , Bite shouldn't cause a def decrease to foe ,
it should give the chance for the foe to be flinched ,

 

[CheckeredZebra]

Gonna hit a few birds with one stone, here. My suggestions of getting these small statuses to work apply to other similar moves. Let me know if this won't work.

Move: Air Slash
Move type: flying
What it currently does: Generic base power/accuracy
What makes it broken: Should cause flinching
What needs to be done to make it work: Add a "Flinch" status to foe and set it to 1 turn only.

----

Move: Aromatherapy
Move Type: Grass
What it does: Idk, probably no damage/minimal damage
What makes it broken: Should remove status ailments of entire party.
How to fix it: Would only half fix, but create a 1 turn, self-status effect that would remove afflictions

---
Move: Belly Drum
Type: Normal
What it does: Raises attack by 2 stages (I think)
What makes it broken: Should max attack and half the user's HP
How to fix it: Raise attack by a lot of points, but add a 1 turn self status that harms the user.

 

[crenel]

above

snip

I already knew of all these happenings, I've played since the beginning of PWO, and thank you for your explanation on the topic at hand, but outside of a lack of resources the point you make isn't completely valid, dropping a players defense by merely 33.3% would not allow for rattata to OHKO, nor raising a metapods defense by 50% make it much harder to kill. The original Random raises were highly ineffective, i agree with that. As i do recall on several occasions, fighting metapod with them gaining 50+ Defense and whatnot. Or Owning my Typhlosion and using Flame charge and gaining +33 speed. Although, Raising a metapods Defense by 10, is still MORE than raising it by 50% of the original number (within lower levels). As it would only raise a level 4-6 metapods defense from 10-12 to 15 or 18, instead of raising it from 10 to 20, or 12 to 22. Its also more effective on the higher levels as well, being as raising by 10 in higher levels does not cause much of a change, leading to the moves never seeing PVP play though. Alas, as you have said, no resources, I can wait.....I only wish it was available previous to this tournament.

Hi,

I don't think you understand -- we don't have the ability to use percentages/fractions when determining stats, as the server was programmed from the ground-up using a completely different type of programming device. It was an oversight on the server developer's part, but without being a server developer Tecknician cannot completely rewrite how our battle system works.

Although there are multiple ways we can approach this problem and take care of it on the programming end, this link should give you a brief overview of the type of problem that we have and why whole numbers are our only option at this point in time.

-crenel

 

[Maideza]

Move Name: Sketch
Move type: Normal
What it currently does: Minor damage
What makes it broken: It's supposed to copy the opponents last move permanently, which it most certainly doesn't.
What needs to be done to make it work: Clearly these moves which are dependant on the opponents previous, or next, move doesn't work - so my suggestion is rather simple.

After learning your fourth Sketch (level 31), Smeargle should have - via Playerdex - a range of moves he can learn. It shouldn't be the strongest moves, neither the worst - it should be maybe one-two damaging moves, one non-damaging move, of each kind. E.g. he should only be able to learn one dragon move (could be Dragon Breath). For grass it could be Razor Leaf and Mega Drain - and as non-damaging, Spore?

It's not perfect, but it solves a lot of it - and then you could also, for the time being, make Ditto work the same way with Transform - as I doubt the system atm could ever fix that.

I will happily find a fair amount of moves and present to you, and you can discuss it with your folks.

On another note, while I'm here...

TM and HMs (only as moves, not as abilities such as Surfing, Flying, etc..)

Once a Pokémon hits level 99, allow it to learn whatever move - via Playerdex, which it should be able to via TM, HM, Tutoring, Egg Move, etc...
http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/ ... _locations

HOWEVER! It should not be via the regular "Edit Moves" - it should be another place, and they should be priced different for each - and one-time use. It would work very similar to Edit Moves, but not be based on level.

I assume the latter would be more directed to Lee.

Edit: Price examples;

Didn't count PP in - even it's implemented in PWO, but it doesn't have any effect.

 

[KaiReborn]

Something that should be implemented if possible are priority moves. I'll leave below the moves that have priority and how the priority varies from move to move (as of Gen V).

Spoiler

Priority Moves
+7 Pursuit
+6 Switching out, charging of Focus Punch
+5 Helping Hand
+4 Detect, Magic Coat, Protect, Snatch
+3 Endure, Fake Out, Follow Me, Quick Guard, Rage Powder, Wide Guard
+2 ExtremeSpeed, Feint
+1 Ally Switch, Aqua Jet, Bide, Bullet Punch, Ice Shard, Mach Punch, Quick Attack, Shadow Sneak, Sucker Punch, Vacuum Wave
0 All other moves
-1 Vital Throw
-2 None
-3 Focus Punch
-4 Avalanche, Revenge
-5 Counter, Mirror Coat
-6 Circle Throw, Dragon Tail, Roar, Whirlwind
-7 Magic Room, Trick Room, Wonder Room,

 

[Manueloz]

mudge bomb : ground move
and koffing immune to ground moves but
for example quagsire used mudge bomb and he killed koffing.
i think it is suck

 

[KaiReborn]

mudge bomb : ground move
and koffing immune to ground moves but
for example quagsire used mudge bomb and he killed koffing.
i think it is suck

Koffing is immune to ground moves because of it's ability (just like gastly's evo line and some other pokemon species), however abilities are not implemented yet. So that would belong to a different discussion imo. Otherwise I think the move Mud Bomb works fine.

 

[Tendou]

Move Name: Sketch/Mirror move
Move type: Normal
What it currently does: Nothing as far i know
What makes it broken: It was supposed to mime last foe's move permanently/Mimes the last foe's move.
What needs to be done to make it work:

Since i know how to code sketch aswell for mirror move due im a coder, that will requires a ovewrite of all moves plus an variable detect for each of them (only if this works similar here) which won't be happening on this client and we don't know when new client arrives.

So i though sketch should do 100 damage due the lack of Smeargle ATK (20) and 80 for Mirror Move . I think that should work for awhile.


Plus tag all broken moves for a quick searching if another update is needed on a distant future.

 

[ArielRebel69]

above

snip

I already knew of all these happenings, I've played since the beginning of PWO, and thank you for your explanation on the topic at hand, but outside of a lack of resources the point you make isn't completely valid, dropping a players defense by merely 33.3% would not allow for rattata to OHKO, nor raising a metapods defense by 50% make it much harder to kill. The original Random raises were highly ineffective, i agree with that. As i do recall on several occasions, fighting metapod with them gaining 50+ Defense and whatnot. Or Owning my Typhlosion and using Flame charge and gaining +33 speed. Although, Raising a metapods Defense by 10, is still MORE than raising it by 50% of the original number (within lower levels). As it would only raise a level 4-6 metapods defense from 10-12 to 15 or 18, instead of raising it from 10 to 20, or 12 to 22. Its also more effective on the higher levels as well, being as raising by 10 in higher levels does not cause much of a change, leading to the moves never seeing PVP play though. Alas, as you have said, no resources, I can wait.....I only wish it was available previous to this tournament.

Hi,

I don't think you understand -- we don't have the ability to use percentages/fractions when determining stats, as the server was programmed from the ground-up using a completely different type of programming device. It was an oversight on the server developer's part, but without being a server developer Tecknician cannot completely rewrite how our battle system works.

Although there are multiple ways we can approach this problem and take care of it on the programming end, this link should give you a brief overview of the type of problem that we have and why whole numbers are our only option at this point in time.

-crenel

Correct me if I'm wrong but so far as I know, performing integer division in C++ (and most other languages) simply truncates the decimal so wouldn't that eliminate the problem of floats/doubles? In other words, just leave all variables as they are (stats I mean) and perform the division on the integer. I'm sure you know it will simply give back an integer anyways so having looked at your link, I fail to see where the problem lies.

Ex: Perform Harden (raise Def stat by 20% lets say) on base stat 33: = 33 + 0.2(33) = 33 + 6 = 39.

In fact, using this approach would eliminate the problem of Tail Whip reducing a pokemon's def stat below 0 because it would get to the point that the division would start reducing the stat by 0 and therefore would cap at some minimum value (close to 5).

Now if you're saying that the server is unable to handle even constant doubles, then that's something else but can still be done so long as integer division can be used using an integer divisor:

some stat = x and you wish to reduce that stat by 20%:

x = x - (x / 5);

That does effectively the same thing as above, and also truncates any decimal that would have lingered behind, but avoid using any double value at all (variable or constant).

Anyways, I'm not trying to talk out of place or anything, just trying to get an idea of what the actual problem is. Hope to hear back.

 

[Tecknician]

Using floats with integers is still not a wise idea because I do believe c++ automatically does casting of datatype to the one that is required. This creates small, but still present extra computing and data loss.

Instead of doing 10 * .4 I find it much wiser to do 10 *2 / 5. Same effect but with less casting involve.

Opinionated information: In the future I do not believe this level of detailed data management will be present because of the amount of information that we are going to store makes programing time more important that storage management. Programming languages like python and ruby are becoming increasingly popular despite having very poor management of data and performance time compared to languages like c/c++/java. Even java, considered the most popular programming doesn't manage it's resources as well as c++.

Crenel is not wrong however, much of the battle system was wrote in a way that in order to be completed, it needs to be re-written from the ground up. There are some things that can be "band-aid" if you will.

 

[ArielRebel69]

It is true, int x = 33 * 0.2 would originally involve a cast of 33 to 33.0 (double) in the computation. The decimal would just be left behind once the double value is assigned into x which is of int type. Basically what you said. In my experience this usually doesn't cause problems but on a wide scale (such as repeated server application) it could result in some strange behaviour from time to time (example: 10 * 0.2 = 1.99999999999999...) I've seen that sort of thing happen before which I honestly can't explain but you're right to avoid double casting for this reason. This is why I had offered the alternative solution:

20% -> x -= x/5
10% -> x -= x/10
33% -> x -= x/3

etc... I'm pretty sure you already know all this, I'm more just writing it for my own self confirmation. In any case, you know more about the server than I ever will and if you say it needs to be re-structured then I'll take your word for it. Just wanted to get some perspective as I'm genuinely interested I personally never thought the scalar approach of +- 10/20 for stat adjustment was all that bad, as it really only negatively affects pokes over level 70. I'm more interested in the programming reasoning behind it ^.^

Oh and just on a personal note, I'm a java fan myself although I'll always be impressed at how efficiently c++ can work (I've experience with both). You're probably right about where the languages are going, at least for the bulk population. With the power that computers offer nowadays, I doubt c++ will really be needed for much more than operating systems or heavy mathematical/statistical analysis.