The Money

Nikola

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-I wanted to make this topic to hear other people opinions. Recently there is abnormal increase of illegal obtained pokemoney in game. People found a way how to exploit the client in order to get maximum amount of money in a matter of a seconds. Maximum amount of the money one man can hold is
Pok%C3%A9monDollar.png
999.999.999 and we all know that. Probably most of you are not even aware of this situation that is one of the reasons why I am making this topic. Some of you probably saw that someone with few hours of a gameplay has maximum money and eventually most of the times they got banned. But what about with those one who weren't banned? They probably realized that there is a one period of a day when there are no certain staffs online and they found that period ideal in order to achieve they goal which is reaching trade city and trade away exploited money for a real money. This is very serious problem I'd say. Sometimes I have a feeling that PWO is becoming one of the biggest moneymaking game for those people.

-PWO population is struggling somehow with this economy. There was even an attempt from staffs side for a possible temporary fix such as reducing shiny chance and trade taxes. Now I wonder who would be affected with any changes made? Corrupted players or a honest players? Would corrupted player complain about any changes made? Well I would decrease shiny chance since there are just to many shiny pokemon caught recently but I would also make several pokemon even more harder to find such as Bagon or Dratini and I do know that rate was changed recently but seems it wasn't enough. Well they look more like common pokemon then a dragons actually. I don't want to go off topic so I am going to proceed with main one.

-I can clearly see where is source of a one problem. Mostly of those people who are exploiting are having closed type trades such as trading with several people who ordered money shipment in a first place. Ancestors have taught me to defend what is mine and what is achieved very hard. I am doing that in real life and I will do it in here. I don't care what other people thinks and what result will be but I am going to be satisfy since I know I've tried to defend something I like and something what is dear to me. There is no place for corrupted ones and there is no place for cheaters. One man can't do much but people can. I used to fight for a flag but I wasn't alone now my country is free? Who made it? People did. Invincibility lies in the defense, the possibility of victory in the Attack. And how to defend what is ours under this circumstances?

-I am aware that this issue is out of hands of current staff crew at some point. And that it might require an client update. Unfortunately Shane gave up from updating current client. Comparing how people cheats looks like client is outdated and at some point not usable anymore. There is one client on it's way made by Hardcoreh but who knows when they are going to finish it. I wonder what can possibly be done by current staff crew until then? Is there really no way to prevent this from happening for now? Is there any way to make those people unable to play anymore? Exploiting several billions of pokedollars almost every day is something to must be worried about.

-I understand that most of the staffs are really busy in their real life and in here. There is no one to blame from current crew though. I personally witnessed dozens of attempts to prevent that money going in game. Personally Chocobo banned God knows how much accounts related to this issue but of course that requires an effort. I wonder instead of dealing with those problems how much scam and fraud cases could be solved and how much other people could be saved instead of dealing with all this. This is totally serious thing which can even put in danger every future planned update. Is there any way to end this? Is there any measure that can be taken to prevent this to happening. There are really many things that prevents most of the GMs to be more efficient. Either they are busy with things that can be solved to prevent them to deal with same issue billion of times or they are working alone in game. This is just a note to current staff organization. Who likes to be lone GM in game? Nobody does! Working as a team will bring much more results then working alone and eventually everyone will be tired of doing same things all over again without any permanent solution and yet alone.

-I made this post in a name of every player who got their money legally and who are playing fair. It took me God knows how much time to be where am I now. We are all working so hard to achieve something. Harder we work the more we are going to appreciate what we have and how can we appreciate anything while this is happening. I am not giving critics to anyone in here. But this is the game I like and most of us like it otherwise we wouldn't be here. I realize that staffs are working hard 'on this project since this is what they are doing for many years. There should be no tolerance for things like this. Sometimes I am looking at things from a corner and I can see them more clear like that. No one has 4 hands and no one can be in two places at the same time. As I said in many posts. If there is an issue somewhere the source of a problem must be found. Solving problem by a problem is more easy then solving them hundreds at same time. I hope you do understand what I am trying to say here. This is very serious issue and approach to it must be found. I also gave several suggestions in previous posts. Would you let that few billions of money goes in circulation like that? Or you are going to "try" to do something? This is not hard question for answer. I am sure something can be worked out. Thanks for reading.
 

Peace-Enforcer

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I agree, something must be done. I might not be the most Influential or the riches or the oldest player. but i love this game and time i spend in it.
I have played this game for over a year now and i have helped this community in my own way. But if this continues I have a feeling it will all go to waste. I hope we can all get together and do something about this.
 

ShiroyoOchigano

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Well it is nice to see your concern but there are a few things you have to understand:

1. Every game is prone to hacking. Companies like Sony, Microsoft have had their entire xbox, ps store hacked where more than thousands of information credit card numbers, passwords etc were hacked and leaked. If that can happen to big companies like Microsoft and Sony then PWO is nothing.
2. Talk to any professional who actually works against hackers or are firewall software security testers etc and they will always tell you that hackers are always 1 step ahead.
3. Top tier games like halo, counter-strike, dota etc have hacks it is only norm that hacks for pwo exists.
4. The hacker doesn't necessarily have to be a gamer a person can pay a hacker to develop a hack for a certain game like pwo. Forums exists for this kind of stuff as well.
5. PWO is a game but the concept Pokemon is not just a game or an anime it's a franchise so naturally there will be people out there that would pay through their nose to get hacks for a game based on pokemon.

solution:
1. There is no solution that can solve this hacking problem once and for all. The best PWO can do is delay the hacking by constantly updating and patching the client.
 

gokulthegr8

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i second darcia and peace..something must be done soon..:/ this game is gettin filled with hackers and botters ..:/ those people are gettin the cash and pokes easily when honest players put in hrs ad days in getting the same..:/ its really unfair..hope gms/admins take note of this post soon and create a proper solution for this..!!!
 

ShiroyoOchigano

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Also regarding the issue of reducing shiny rate. The game can consider reducing it for players who own membership but not for player who do not own membership because for non MS players encountering a shiny takes forever. I have 100+ hours of gaming in pwo and have not encountered a single shiny (non MS). Any player with MS would already have encountered 3-10 Shinies atleast with 100+ hours in the game.
 

OGPokemaster

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Well while i agree with the majority of wat u said, i dont think its tht hard to find the people who use the money hacks. GMs and admins have tools to see how much money is curculating if tht number jumps by some people using money hacks then they can trace it back to the people who used it and ban them, and even if the people trade the money away then they can see trade logs and see where the money went and do further banning. That said, its hard to see who was just doing fair trades with the guy not knowing the money they were getting was hacked so theyll aways be some cheaters that get away with it simply because GMs and Admins might not be able to tell whos fair and whos cheating (at least in the case i stated). i dont think anything can be done about it till the the client is finished and thts wat it always comes back to in the end.
 

Siauwlong

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With PWO current condition, the hacker will exploit the game even more, and make things worse... While we wait for the solution for this problem, maybe the hacker already put more illegal money into the game and we didn't notice that

more money in game -> lower prices of poke, how could you make poke's price even lower while nowadays shiny ain't worth anything?

So yes something must be done for this issue, but we all know the admin can't do it instantly.. maybe we should disable money trading atm? so only poke trading allowed..
 

OGPokemaster

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Siauwlong said:
With PWO current condition, the hacker will exploit the game even more, and make things worse... While we wait for the solution for this problem, maybe the hacker already put more illegal money into the game and we didn't notice that

more money in game -> lower prices of poke, how could you make poke's price even lower while nowadays shiny ain't worth anything?

So yes something must be done for this issue, but we all know the admin can't do it instantly.. maybe we should disable money trading atm? so only poke trading allowed..

i made a topic on this not to long ago and most, if not all the people who posted, didnt like the idea, i myself wouldnt mind seeing it done but all the people who have millions of pokedollars would say tht all there hard work went to waste
 

BlackBloodz

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This is really one of the problems which hurts pwo alot , people spends hours on this game to get few mils , while others in 5 minutes gets loads of them without being noticed ,,
I put my hands with you Darcia and with anyone who agrees ,,

about the solution :
@ disable money trading , its not the best thing you can do or even the 2nd or 3rd
by disabling money trading , a player with 2m and a player with 999m is the same
and , some pokes have certain values which trading for other pokes wont be the same
let's take S arca for example ,, you could trade S tales + S ursaring (for example) for it
Arca is battler , which others are not
people will more likely to get 40m for it if they dont want to keep it

Until new client is finished , or even releasing new player dex
we should do something not to prevent it , to reduce it more and more ,,

I appreciate everything from staff what have done and will do ,,
 

ShiroyoOchigano

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OGPokemaster said:
Siauwlong said:
With PWO current condition, the hacker will exploit the game even more, and make things worse... While we wait for the solution for this problem, maybe the hacker already put more illegal money into the game and we didn't notice that

more money in game -> lower prices of poke, how could you make poke's price even lower while nowadays shiny ain't worth anything?

So yes something must be done for this issue, but we all know the admin can't do it instantly.. maybe we should disable money trading atm? so only poke trading allowed..

i made a topic on this not to long ago and most, if not all the people who posted, didnt like the idea, i myself wouldnt mind seeing it done but all the people who have millions of pokedollars would say tht all there hard work went to waste

People would say this is a bad idea not for the sole reason of them having a ton of cash but also because every player in the game may not have the kind of quality poke players look for. So in the end most the trade that would occur would only be for people who use the token store and have MS since they are usually the ones with all the good stuff.
 

OGPokemaster

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BLACKsamerBlood said:
about the solution :
@ disable money trading , its not the best thing you can do or even the 2nd or 3rd
by disabling money trading , a player with 2m and a player with 999m is the same

A person with 2m and a person with 999m is NOT the same, a person with 2m cant buy as many, or as good a pokemon as a person with 999m can. (i know those numbers where only examples but it goes the same.

BLACKsamerBlood said:
some pokes have certain values which trading for other pokes wont be the same
let's take S arca for example ,, you could trade S tales + S ursaring (for example) for it
Arca is battler , which others are not
people will more likely to get 40m for it if they dont want to keep it

if someone wants to trade a S arca for a S tales and S ursa thats the persons own choice, pokemon dont have set values to them. in the end it should come down to the people trading to make decisions on what there pokemon is worth to them and other people. the point being made is that maybe 2 months from now S arca could be worth 20m instead with the market in flux with all this money, its the same as in real life 50 years ago $1000 was worth alot more then it is now because there wasnt as much money being made, the same can be said with pokemoney.
 

Jhaxion

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Great topic Darcia I enjoyed it reading it. I suppose everyone has there fixes for this issue and the economy in whole. I don't see a quick fix for any of the current issues that pwo currently faces until the client is updated. Of course this won't fix everything,there will always be some people that want to take the easy way and find hacks and things of that nature. My recommendation for this is simple and has been stated before by fellow pwo players,take the monetary value out of trading or buying pokemon. IMO money should only be used to buy things from the marts. This is a topic that has/will been discussed for a while hopefully we will get a resolution for it soon.
 

Merse

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Money hack is not the worst thing that happens in PWO in my opinion. Of course it bugs me like hell, when a hacker buys S HRs after a few hours of playing, but on the long run, money hacks have only one effect: Rich players become richer compared to poorer players. Why? Rich players are usually veterans. They have some very valuable Pokemon to sell in the first place. Plus they have the money to buy any Pokemon they want. It's a long trend: Rich buy the wares when the prices are low, then sell them with a huge profit when the prices get higher. See the example of S Arcanine for example. 2 months ago, S Arcas were around 20-25m, now they are around 30-45m which is a rough 50% increase in price!

Those who hack money have one intention: To spend it. To buy very good Pokemon. This means that their money gets back to the market, distributed among the sellers - mostly to rich players as I stated above, but there is nothing wrong with it, that's how economy works. The current dire situation of the market could be formed because the Pokemon supply was far over the money supply. I am against every hack, but to be honest, momentarily, money hackers have more benefit on the market than damage.

Of course I don't say money hackers should be tolerated. They have a fortunate effect that they are stabilizing the market with the extra money influx, but that's just temporary, and it is quite possible that in a few months the situation will change and there will be too much money on the market once again. What I want to pint out is that stepping up against money hackers is important, but I don't think that they should be a top priority at the moment. Not for a few more weeks at least. Stat scammers are far worse, because they steal the money of other players. Botters are more dangerous because they spawn the market with too valuable Pokeomn, ruining their market value.

And finally, the fundamental issues of the market system of PWO is the most important thing to deal with. We must find a way to reduce the Pokemon influx by making the players interested in not selling every Pokemon they caught. I already listed some ideas about this earlier (most notably: Make them exchangeable for tokens at a very low rate). We must find a way to drain the money from the game in case if the prices go insane, other than money cuts.
A well-balanced market will also help the staff to follow hackers as every sudden change on the market will be well visible.
 

root

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This game is still in beta, and when the actual game does come out, there will be no way to transfer all the pokemon you currently have over to the other one. I say we start from scratch erase everybody's pokemon and restart all the money in the game back to 0. The only reason some people have so much money is because the prices of pokemon were very expensive. So to be fair to all the players lets start from scratch.
 

Saric

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root said:
This game is still in beta, and when the actual game does come out, there will be no way to transfer all the pokemon you currently have over to the other one. I say we start from scratch erase everybody's pokemon and restart all the money in the game back to 0. The only reason some people have so much money is because the prices of pokemon were very expensive. So to be fair to all the players lets start from scratch.
The plan is/was (depending if staff have changed it or not) is that there'll be a new server which will be a fresh start and will be updated, while this one will stay and not be updated.
 

ShiroyoOchigano

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root said:
This game is still in beta, and when the actual game does come out, there will be no way to transfer all the pokemon you currently have over to the other one. I say we start from scratch erase everybody's pokemon and restart all the money in the game back to 0. The only reason some people have so much money is because the prices of pokemon were very expensive. So to be fair to all the players lets start from scratch.

Worst idea ever. If this happens PWO might lose half their players. Specially the ones that have been buying tokens and membership. Also this game may never come out of Beta. It was in beta when i joined in 2009, was in beta before that, still in beta today and will be in beta for a very very long time.
 

Merse

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I think even if they start a new server they will compensate old players somehow. It really would be unreasonable to force veterans to give up everything just because they deleted the word "Beta" behind the version number :) But let's not go off topic. We were talking about money and economy.
 

ShiroyoOchigano

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Merse said:
I think even if they start a new server they will compensate old players somehow. It really would be unreasonable to force veterans to give up everything just because they deleted the word "Beta" behind the version number :) But let's not go off topic. We were talking about money and economy.

While playing the BETA version of any online game players by playing the game agree that once the game goes out of BETA they agree to lose everything and start fresh. I have never seen an online game compensate once they came out of BETA.
 

Ramensnoodle

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Fix the exploit and reset all money ingame that's the solution imo. The best solution is not always the most popular one.
Don't announce it like with the tax we had last year just wipe every thing guild banks too so none can get around it like they did with the tax.
And before you go and say you earned it how do you know your money didn't come from illegal means? If you really support the game and enjoy playing it you know that if something is for the greater good you will support it and not just think of yourself.
Still one of the things that piss me off here for a beta game staff are too soft on issues regarding exploits hacks etc.
 
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