Removal of /list

[mhanth4f]

Suggestion? I thought this was the discussion forum. Sorry I must be losing it...

As I always say, just because an idea is bad, doesn't mean it can't be improved upon and turned into a really good idea. The only bad idea is that is never suggested.

Keep the discussion going

Pardon ma'am so discussion it is? If it only allow discussion they will only say.. "i agree" . "not agree" . " *curse* its bad! *curse* ", and in the end the staff gonna say, "if you only saying you are agree or not its not gonna help!".
So maybe these suggestion is good overall. maybe...

 

[Tecknician]

Anon staff member on our staff chat summed up my frustration over all my topics I start

Vets whine to protect their wealth --> Staff want to avoid making people whine too much --> inner staff discussions take forever regarding of how much whining is too much --> No updates ever happen because we discuss players whining so much --> people complain about no updates

 

[Bluerise]

Pardon ma'am so discussion it is? If it only allow discussion they will only say.. "i agree" . "not agree" . " *curse* its bad! *curse* ", and in the end the staff gonna say, "if you only saying you are agree or not its not gonna help!".
So maybe these suggestion is good overall. maybe...

There can't be much of a discussion if people turn to sheep.

 

[Fionavara]

Ok let's evolve this discussion.

Lets improve on the /list command

Fiona what would you think if something like zebras idea that wa posted earlier?

I actually have a suggestion myself.
is it possible to "unlock" /list command by for example FINDING all the pokes on a particular map.
that way u can tell yourself what pokes there is by knowing u missing some poke if u cant do the /list comman on that very map...?
It would improve the game THAT way, cus now people would have to hunt in the maps to learn what pokes there are, and knowing they missed one or more if they cant do /list and they dont have to go check wiki everytime the move to a new map. and it would be a challenge..and a "reward" for finding all the pokes on a map.
U could even add the reward of the "rarity" in that.
that way if u found all the pokes in one map u get to unlock the /list on that map not needing to have to go to wiki and recheck every time, and no need to make writen lists of every maps pokemons...just an idea.
Im opposed to using the playerdex for two simple reason, we don't have it and it's not going to work for a long time since we all know it will be so full of bugs once we get it released..maybe for later sure..u get the locations as info from the playerdex/pokedex. BUT still, that idea could be as compatible to my idea too so...

 

[Bluerise]

since we all know it will be so full of bugs once we get it released

Thanks for the vote of confidence. :/

 

[The-Predator]

since we all know it will be so full of bugs once we get it released

Thanks for the vote of confidence. :/

I guess the big delay is for avoiding bugs

 

[Drexed]

No disrespect towards staff, but why put so much effort towards removing something beneficial to the game? Majority of the community enjoy the command therefore that should be taken into consideration.



The list command basically IS the pokedex btw, imagine if you spent hours looking for a poke that's not even in that spot, or if you unknowingly ko'd an HR. Thats time consuming also when it takes days and sometimes weeks of hunting to find a certain poke.

Think about it from the players perspective a bit.



Also there are a lot of valid statements in this discussion but as it stands I see no reason to tamper with it at all.

 

[Julio~]

[glow=red]Thinking better about the removal of /list, it wouldn't change the game a lot once we have the forums and wiki. We just would need of constant updates on wiki to make the game run fine. And that sounds good; players will be more connected with the remaining of the community. Anyway I still apreciate the command. :-\ [/glow]

 

[rbecca]

In my opinion it is no good because going to the Wiki/begging for an answer as to where what kinda Pokémon are, takes much more effort than typing a few things in chat and let's face it we're all lazy nowadays. <3

 

[Orean]

No disrespect towards staff, but why put so much effort towards removing something beneficial to the game? Majority of the community enjoy the command therefore that should be taken into consideration.



The list command basically IS the pokedex btw, imagine if you spent hours looking for a poke that's not even in that spot, or if you unknowingly ko'd an HR. Thats time consuming also when it takes days and sometimes weeks of hunting to find a certain poke.

Think about it from the players perspective a bit.



Also there are a lot of valid statements in this discussion but as it stands I see no reason to tamper with it at all.

To clarify, we are not dead-set on the removal of this command—we are looking to have a more all-inclusive discussion on how beneficial the command is, in its current state, to the game, all angles considered. The more easy-to-guess sentiment is that it's very informative for sought-out information—which it is, and it's understandable as to why the information should be documented somewhere—but one angle that I personally believe goes unconsidered to many players is the metagame.

As already mentioned on multiple occasions, this information was not available in the handheld games until you recorded the Pokemon's caught-data entry; the only "realistic" way (using that term liberally—Pokemon logic!) to know the data was to have a device (the pokedex) provide the data, after you registered the Pokemon's caught-data entry (requiring the Pokemon to be encapsulated in a Pokeball, thus in your possession).

Has this type of data ever been volunteered by Nintendo/Gamefreak themselves in their own game? It has always existed mainly as metadata on more 3rd-party resources, such as Bulbapedia. Does it feel as immersive here, in that respect, to be able to have complete foreknowledge of it from the outset while playing the game?

I'm not saying that it should or shouldn't be removed—I see the merit for informational resources on the data—but I believe how metagame-breaking this feature should be mulled about more.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

To be fair, this isn't the same type of atmosphere as nintendo handhelds. I don't believe I've ever once spent 30+ hours looking for a single pokemon there. The main issue I have with removing it is that there are a few downsides to it. I think chocho's points were fair, and they made sense for the most part, but there are two sides to a coin.

The problems I see are:
-Many many noobs being confused and flooding chat with questions. There is rarely anyone on with the interest of answering any questions as it stands, how will it be then? (and don't say that they'll learn to find the answers for themselves because we all know better than that )
-The information will be just as available on forums or on pokedex, having to look around for 20 seconds as opposed to 1 isn't really that much of a change for the better as it is an inconvenience IMO.
-I'm sure there would be someone who posts locations and screen shots of the areas where one may find a particular pokemon, but until that happens I would find it rather difficult to swallow if I were close, but not exactly at the spot where I could find that oh so treasured HR and I sat there in that spot for hours waiting to find one for pokedex data.
-Someone once told me that this is a game, it is not supposed to be a chore or a duty, it should be played for the fun of it. I don't see any reason to make it harder on hunters.

Of course there are the positives in removing it, which would be effectively removing the known rarity of pokemon and making it more of a "buy by demand" situation instead of price being automatically assumed by rarity. In my opinion, this could be served just as well by leaving the rarities "Unknown" permanently, or perhaps even showing the sight rate such as:
Tentacruel: 1/100
Dewgong: 1/500
Staryu: 1/700 etc.

 

[mhanth4f]

Pardon ma'am so discussion it is? If it only allow discussion they will only say.. "i agree" . "not agree" . " *curse* its bad! *curse* ", and in the end the staff gonna say, "if you only saying you are agree or not its not gonna help!".
So maybe these suggestion is good overall. maybe...

There can't be much of a discussion if people turn to sheep.

Vague..
Like how they are lazy? Im not saying im not one of them but im supporting this removal, well not fully but with modified version with working pokedex as i've stated. Thanks Admin.

 

[Dend7]

First off I would like to thank the staff for doing this in a trial and not just changing without the effects being widely known. I always look forward to the next update and support the decisions justly.

I personally would like to see the /list function stay so as to know what is in the area. However, at the same time the rarity does not need to be there cause in the long run the chance of getting a specific pokemon is all by chance on any level and also it will bring about a change to the market of selling a pokemon no more its worth millions just cause its HR it will be cause of its IV's or its battle potential. But on the other hand if it all went to the wiki I also would be fine with that outcome cause the info would still be available.
With that being said I believe that there will be no end to the people that can not or will not adjust to the new system that requires the wiki to find the info. Also the forums seem to be a lack of interest in almost all the new players and many of the vets of the game already tire of attempting to guide hundreds of people to the sources they dismiss with a wave and expect someone to always give you the answer.

I have just gone back and reread all the current posts. I have many agreements with the staff of the bit of how much a pokemon is worth is built off of its rarity. This is something that should be taken into consideration. You have many veterans that will almost never forget what the rarity of most of the pokemon were and thus contend to influence people with that knowledge meaning they could be the ones to help speculate on what pokemon spawn rates have been changed to if the RARITY is removed. All in all its not a horrible thing but none the less weather you tell them or not the game will always revolve around the pokemon and their spawn rates as to the base of all trades/sales there can be no denying that. It is proven in any online game in existence that the hard find weather its stated or not will grab a higher price. Now personally I would wish it to take the base out of the cost of pokemon therefore possibly placing a more sustainable trade market that does not require you to have hundreds of millions of poke-dollars but lets be realistic people are greedy and will use any advantage they have available. In that same tone that is to be said on the /list function as well.

I would like to make some suggestions as far as limiting the /list function such as: only allow /list to work in the current area you are in and taking away the ability to just type /list (pokemon) and it says where or /list (area) and its tells you whats there. By doing this it places a larger requirement of being there to use the simple command not just finding the new and exciting cause it was in /list. Also, if in an event situation you have only the basic or common pokemon listed with out telling of the special event pokemon IE; Froslass, Honchkrow, Umbreon ect. then there would be a small give and take thus giving pride to the finders of the specials and opening the discussion in game as to what the event provides. As to the ongoing permanent pokemon and areas limit the use to just /list no extentions and I believe this will be something to work with. This in my opinion would be a satisfactory compromise for those like myself that are the collector enthusiast.

Then I have questions back to the Staff. If you remove the rarity and /list commands placing us to rely on the Wiki and Forums are you saying that with each update the they will also be updated? If we are to first find the new areas or pokemon before the information would be released how will the deciding factor as to weather it will be released, after the first person finds it or will there be a set time such as a week after release that it becomes posted knowledge if you decide to post it at all? And if you do not have the event pokemon listed as to what they are will you release an NPC in the area that might say something like X Pokemon was recently spotted kind of like the one telling you about Sudowoodo?

 

[SOULTAKER1994]

it would be really sad losing the /list command completely so imo i think zebbys idea was perfect instead of removing it completely why not do a bit of experiment with it making a few pokes unknown to us so when we encounter them it would fill out the information like a piece of a puzzle ..

 

[Rexrene]

Well, I don't really have anything to discuss but I want to give a suggestion which is what Zebra did said about making the list unknown. As I can say, this game need more adventure in it since it is a Pokemon game. I think we should give them a bit more things to discover by themselves. I prefer they don't rely on staff and others unless they are in a great pinch or something. If you want something, you should work for it and don't only rely on other people. In other MMO, they don't have any special command to know where the monsters or pokemons where about. They can only discover it by asking other players and find by themselves. This way, they will try to communicate with more other players and join into the community. This is MMO game, which is basically means a community game. So, try to communicate with other players rather than playing alone. If you want to play alone, then don't play MMO game, play single player without any players in it. Simple as that. Everyone is a newbie from a beginning so don't be scared to ask and don't just whine for something that not really a big deal. We are trying to make the game better, we are improving it. It may take time but that is the process, that is the reason we ask for discussions and suggestions because we want to know your's opinions and not whine. This may sound harsh but this is the reality of gaming. This game is still improving, its not perfect and it have flaws which is we try to fix and perfect it as possibles. Some stuffs may require skills to improve it which is why we are still learning and still trying improvise the game. Just be patient and try to join the forums a lot more because we need your help to improve the game and please don't think about your convenience only, think more wider about how can you make this game interesting and can last forever.

Thank you.
Sincerely,
Rexrene

 

[Gobfather]

Who is whining? Everyone is stating their opinions or state of sadness regarding the removal, demeaning the entire community of your game by saying they are "whining" is rude as hell and 100% unproductive. Don't ask an opinion if you will only tear upon that opinion and enforce yours all while judging them whiners and lazy...

Here is my opinion. AS IS, this command removal is terrible, just simply absolutely terrible. Honestly I think it is extremely pointless and a huge waste of time that could spent on so many better things. The /list command was something Unique and special about PWO, as you rexrene are so bent about pointing out "no other mmo has this" well... YES! that is one of those things that makes PWO so different and so fun to play, it was something golden to have placed in a MMO, and now you take it away with the aim of making it more of an adventure...Make it more of an adventure by adding more things, not making everything more difficult and harder... When you go to another poke MMO like Pokemon DOD, one of the things you see players asking all the time is, where do I find this pokemon? how long does it take? etc. and NO ONE EVER ANSWERS, they simply say don't be f#$@@#% lazy go find it on the wiki, and that player is never seen in chat or game ever again, or that player will rant about it resulting in a kick from server. It was interesting when the crashes were frequent many people flooded to DOD and the one thing they all said, was how lame it was there was no /list command like in PWO...this command is what separates your game here, making it unique, original, and very enjoyable. In DOD I simply quit playing, the community is 100% unhelpful, the whole find the pokemon on the wiki is like a chore and really takes away from the joy of the game, and PWO had many more things i liked better such as /list command. This is only taking away and will only push away players old and new alike. Hunting here is already hard enough, this game requires way too much time to get what you are looking for in the first place, this only makes things so much harder, not making a better community. If your goal is to have a stronger community that is more involvement and communication, do things like weekend events, add guild functions in game, hide outs, hosting guild wars awarding said guild with bonuses, etc etc Add things to this game that give further functions and people will want to talk about it, don't take things away, from what I see all this has done is caused 75% of people to be sad and jump in to say they don't like it, kind of the wrong attention.

Now as for improving it... as we are now calling it "zebbys idea" I think you are on to something that is good. With the future additions of new maps, new pokemon, event maps, etc.. Having a /list command only showing Unkown - ?? ?? (pokemon - rarity) and leaving it to the player to unveil those pokemon upon finding and then using the command again to say Croagunk - Rare would be something that could be very interesting. I seriously doubt anything about this idea will further unite the community aside from having similar opinions against it. This new idea though, I am all for zebbys idea, as well for rarities, that is something that keeps someone hunting, knowing what general chance they have. People don't have the time of day to sit around hunting in the dark no idea what poke is where and what rarity it is.

 

[Atum_Ramirez]

I don't think the removal of /list would be a good thing to PWO.

First of all, new players would be clueless where to get his/her favourite poke, and it's impossible to answer a big number of questions always about the same, "where can i find x poke"? The best way to prevent this issue is just giving the information of what pokes can be find in the area. And the /list command is an easy and straightforward way to know that info. The more available information the player gets about the game, the better, atleast thats my opinion.

For realism sake, when i go to a preserved zone here in Portugal, in the entry of the park, there is information about what are the animals and vegetation in the park, and their characteristics. So I think it is quite logical to have that info available to any player, because it happens in the real world.

One of the things that motivate me to play this game is to set objectives like "I want to catch this poke". If I dont know where I can find it for sure, i won't get the motivation to farm it. So the game looses interest to me if im not sure the pokemon is really there. This argument is backed by the new Area in PWO, the cinnabar volcano. There is much misinformation about what pokes I can catch there. I heard things like Numel or Torkoal in the volcano, and Wailmer in the waters of cinnabar island. Put it simply, i wont search for a thing im not sure it is there. And the command /list gives me that assurance.

To me, a game should be challenging enough to be interesting, but easy enough to be rewarding. If you want to make the game tougher, rework the NPCs, the rarities of pokes, wathever. Hiding information is just not the way to go, atleast for me. And remember not to put things so h.a.r.d(wow, hard is a censored word? lol) on players, that the game becomes frustrating, and not fun to play.

Hope my english was readable =)

 

[FoxyMulder]

Personally I think that unlocking the rarity rates of pokemon in a given area would be fun, if that is possible. If not then I would like to see the rarity rates returned in whatever format is decided best.

However I don't think it would be fun or realistic to only unlock those rates on finding each pokemon in an area. Not fun, because you would have to spend say 1-100 hours or more on every single map to do it- in most cases hunting for pokemon you don't really care for. And why? The information will have been discovered by other players and be on the wiki or hidden somewhere else on the internet if staff didn't want it on official pages here.

So I think once the new spawns have become generally known- maybe after players post their guesses on each route and the guesses are close enough to the reality- the real rates are released- or as close to as staff decide us players need to know them.

But ingame to unlock the rates- I say just make it so NPCs in the area and/or city prior to the routes give the information. So Bird Watcher Fred in Pewter City tells us "Route 3 is great for watching spearows and pidgeys, they're just everywhere there!" And hey presto we get spearow and pidgey on our route 3 /list. A girl on route 3 itself tells us she is hunting a clefairy but it's taking a long time. After speaking to her we find that /list shows the rarity of clefairy on route 3. As we progress in the game NPCs with the info may become harder to find, maybe even mini quests will be needed to unlock certain info. But it does make sense that other people in the area would be a better and faster source of this information than personal experience hunting there.

 

[SOULTAKER1994]

today the new map of cinnabar was flooded with hunters collectors etc 95% of the people were asking "Is this poke available here" it was really annoying that only 2 pokes were being easily spawned both were common (as before) seeing the /list always gives me an idea of how long im supposed to wait in the map to find something good i try my best to hunt heck i even give up easy now because of nothing beings shown on /list in cinnabar island some players were busy trolling around saying flareon is available on map (No idea if it was just a troll or was possible) Please teck don't remove the /list command as gob says Its really a unique thing having a mmo with something like that in it idk about others but i mostly keep an organized time to spend in one map according to what pokes are available there.. if/list stayed it would be easy but if you applied what idea zebby had it would be a challenge as well as it would be fun too..completely removing it would really be a mess T_T

 

[nemo55]

Hello,

Well, I had a nice read, and agree with most of the posts here in regards to keeping /list command. I won't rant about it cause a lot has already been stated.

I just want to say, I have played Pokemon ever since I was a child all up until Pokemon Silver. Thought I got over it, and here I am 21 years of age playing Pokemon again. Playing Pokemon brings many memories for me. So I decide to buy Pokemon X for Nintendo 3DS. Yes, huge jump from when I last played handhelds with Gameboy Color. I compare PWO to handheld AND let me tell you PWO is still better for me because of the following reasons..

A) The Community
B) The attachment of multiple worlds Kanto, Johto, and in future Hoenn
C) Live PVP battles
D) unique commands like /list, /iv, /info etc...

YES! YES! YES! /list is one of the many reasons PWO just rocks my socks! So please return it, and figure out some other alternative!!

Thanks.