MS -Shiny Rates - ( Open Discussion )

[Atum_Ramirez]

Thanks for your opinion Kaiser, and for reading a long post xD
I think you may have not understand me on some points.

So you say that if one doesn't donate he should be handed things on a silver plate.

I didnt suggest that things should be easier on non donators. I suggested things should be harder on donators. I have no problem with me having 1/8000 odds to get a shiny, or not having enough money to buy uber pokes. I'm fine with what the game gives me actually. All I say is that the game should be more equal between donators and non donators, not that non donators should have things easy.

If I wanted things I'd work for them not complain and see what comes from that

It was not my intention to complain. I'm sorry if you understanded that way. I love the game and that's why I play it. I only made a suggestion on making the game more equal, not easier.

About the token store, a non donator can buy pokemon from there as well, given he works his way to get enough money to secure tokens.

A token costs 1,5Million each right? So a person that donates 1$ gets almost instantly 1,5Million. How much time would a non donator need to accomplish that in PWO? As I said, I don't want things to get easier to me, I just think that 1,5Million gained by donating 1$ is not balanced compared to the time i need to get that money ingame. ( Or maybe Im playing badly the game..)

As a matter of fact the ivs will leave much to be desired more often than not so once again I can't see your point.

If we go the pvp point perspective of view, you are tottally right about it. But some users will want pokes in the token store just because they like them. Noone will buy a wurmple for competitive battling xD I just wished that some UC pokes could be removed from the token store and be put in the wild. Could even be wurmple xD But you are right about the battling stuff.

Now going to the pvp point, not every battler costs a fortune, there are quite a few that are cheap and easy to get by, you can build a competitive team on those regards if you know how to balance it properly.

Again, I didn't say that I have a problem with what I get in the game. I'm fine with the game gives me, and I think that I need to spend a lot of time in game to get a good team. My issue was with people being able to sell tokens, and have enough poke$ to buy a good team in no time. All they need theoretically is 4 badges if they start in johto, and they can easily buy a team. So I have no problem with me having to invest a lot of time in the game, my problem is with the easyness of donators to get the goodies xD

If you're going down that path I could give you an example of another Pokemon MMO where being member had a drop of rarity rates in general, not only on shinies. Also character customization is planned to be possible on the next Playerdex update though I'm not really sure on this one.

I only "went that path" (I'm sorry if it insulted you in any way) just to show that it is possible to have a MMO with less benefits for donators, and still being able to pay for the everyday bills. Note that I think PWO is superior in may ways to pokeMMO which I stated before in my post.
I also talked about customization, not because I wanted (couldnt care less actually), but because it could be a way to make people donate money to customization, instead of donating money to get pokes that otherwise are not obtainable in the game.

Once again if a player wants something they should work towards their goal and not expect to have things handed to them on a silver plate. Lazyness and MMOs simply don't match and if they can't understand that then they shouldn't be playing imo.

I completely agree with that statement. People should work for what they want, though I don't think that accusing others of being lazy and wanting things handed on a silver plate, or leaving MMO are a valid argument for the discussion.

In my post I didn't asked for benefits for non donators. I simply suggested that the game could be more equal, by lowering the benefits donators can get.
I don't think it is balanced to make quick money by selling tokens. I don't think it is balanced to have 4x probability to encounter a shiny.
I agree with you about the UC pokes, but my "gotta catch them all" spirit spoke higher than me =P

As a conclusion, I wanted to focus on Donators benefits, not on non donators xD Non donators should be fine with what they get by the game, but the fact that donators get those things much more easier, may be unbalanced, and create 2 groups of players. Also I didnt wanted to say that the game should be easier to me or to non donators, only more equal and more balanced between the two classes.

 

[KaiReborn]

Valid reasoning but I can't agree completely to it. I find it fair that donators have a few perks because of the fact they put their money into things. I can see your main issue relates to the chances of finding a shiny with ms. But if that rate was to be changed to make it harder to find, donators would have to be compensated through other means as it was mentioned previously, otherwise there'd be somewhat of a loss on donations as players would find ms not to be worth it (personally, ms was pretty much the only thing I purchased from the token store).

I agree where you say token selling makes things easier for donators to get money ingame but again if it weren't for them non donators such as myself would get no chance to get anything from the token store unless I lucked out on the occasional giveaways so preventing tokens from being sold at all would cause a larger rift to open the way I see it.

Also what I meant by 'going down that path' was related to your mention of another pokemon MMO, since it is against the Terms of Service. As a heads up, next time just give the example but don't mention which specific MMO you talk about.

 

[Atum_Ramirez]

I find it fair that donators have a few perks because of the fact they put their money into things.

Yes, I also think donators should have benefits, otherwise noone would donate xD My idea was to tone down those benefits, as long as PWO still got enough donations to pay the bills. For example, making the odds 1/3000 instead of 1/2000 for a couple of months to see if donations would fall too much, or still be enough to have a healthy $ balance to pay the bills.

donators would have to be compensated through other means as it was mentioned previously, otherwise there'd be somewhat of a loss on donations as players would find ms not to be worth it (personally, ms was pretty much the only thing I purchased from the token store).

That's the reason why I suggested customization as other source of donations for PWO =) Also Ecowolf talked about some other options that could be used as a way to get donations other than 1/2000 or UC pokes.

preventing tokens from being sold at all would cause a larger rift to open the way I see it.

Agree with you on this one. Even though selling 1 token for 1,5Million seems unfair to me, banning token selling would create a huge deflation. And people wouldnt be happy of course by not being able to get 200M to get that shiny HR. Still, if there were less pokes sold in the UC, the value of tokens would perhaps go down a bit, turning things a little more equal.

Also what I meant by 'going down that path' was related to your mention of another pokemon MMO, since it is against the Terms of Service. As a heads up, next time just give the example but don't mention which specific MMO you talk about.

Didnt really knew about that =/. Thanks for the tip anyways =)

All in all, Im not suggesting that everything should be equal to non donators and donators(thats nonsense of course). What I suggest is to lower the gap between the 2 as long as it is viable for PWO to have cash for the bills and a little surplus.

 

[Merse]

My opinion always was that SC should be reduced to 1/16000 and MS SC should be somewhere between 1/8000 and 1/4000. And members should be compensated some other way. I like Eco's ideas, with the exception of the Member-only maps. I think every map should be accessible for anybody, once they met the objective criteria (like DD).
For me, currently the greatest benefit of MS is the increased money and XP from battles. Of course my opinion will change as soon a s a new Pokemon becomes catchable

 

[CheckeredZebra]

Atum, I see where you're coming from, and I wouldn't mind for membership to be balanced a little more either. But I wonder if there's more angles to this issue than just donations. I'd like your opinion on this and to learn why you (and others you know who have quit) feel catching up is impossible. I'm not challenging your points, but I do think there is more to learn here. (So please don't let me scare you off. Input from people like you are rare, so I value it a lot. =P )

I'll start with vets. I think PWO is one of the older surviving Pokemon MMOs; we've been here since late 2007. That's about 6-7 years. Judging from its update log, PokeMMO has been around since 2012. That's a lot more time for things to go wrong, small issues to build up...AND for people to collect their riches.

In our game, Vets (from early 2010+) have had 3 years to get their teams and to sell pokemon. Older vets (2008-2009 players) have had 4-5 years. Perhaps many of those vets have also donated. I personally have had 5 years to get where I am. Is it that time advantage + Donations what new players consider impossible, and not just donations?


*I have seen players who have spent 1 year in the game surpass my 5 years of wealth easily with tokens, but I can still take them out in PvP with pokemon people don't normally think about. Do I find that unfair? Not really. If somebody tries to use an Salamence on their team against me, it's an easy kill for my Kangaskhan. Metagross is no problem for the Donphan I caught myself with a bit of effort. Slaking falls to Machamp. Tentacruel and Starmie are common in PvP as well and not hard to find. What is stopping anyone from thinking out of the box and buying cheaper, less used pokemon that do well? Or catching one themselves when they're only Common, Rare or VR? (Or whatever the new rarities will be.)

This means people are either blindly following the status quo (example: "If I don't have a dragon I can't win PvP!") or they are more focused on collecting bragging rights. Donphan just isn't as easy to show off as Meta is despite being a decent battler. You can't walk around town with a normal Donphan and get "oohs" and "aahs," I'll give you that. But is that game-breaking to you and others? If so, why? If it's not, what is?

When I was new in 2009 I simply could not donate. Thus, I did not stand a chance to the elite of 2008-2009 (I wouldn't call them vets, because 1 year hardly qualifies. But their wealth was still immense, with a good few owning very good UCs.) Not at first, anyway.

Knowing this, I was not trying to beat them, either. Instead, I had friendly rivals. These were several people that started at the same time as me. Even if our team levels were slightly uneven, we'd still have some seriously fun PvP matches with our newbie pokemon. I progressed through the game with other people, and whoever trained the most that day would have the advantage. Does that happen as often anymore?

Those elite donators were not my goal, which -according to you- is who newer players REALLY want to compete with at a VERY early time. You say that ultimately, because newer players set the bar too high for themselves, they quit. That seems really odd to me. In fact, why are they so set on those pokemon that quickly, instead of creating steps to reach that goal? Or do they think there are no steps to take, and that they are stuck where they are?

Also, how are new players experiencing the game? Are they seeing people with Sala, then feeling angry that they'll "never" get those kinds of pokemon because it will take them a couple of years to reach that point? (Without realizing it took a year or two for the Sala owner to get that wealthy.) Or are they seeing people who start at the same time as them getting $2,000,000 from 1 token and are discouraged from that?

Can new players meet similar newbie friends to progress through the game with, or is it hard to meet somebody now? Are new players mostly befriending/being exposed to older players, making them feel like the competition is too much?

Is the problem about some combination of these things? If so, which ones and why?

*getting bragging rights?
*winning battles/getting pokemon often considered "the best" for PvP (as true or false as that may be)?
*new players donating and getting richer faster with less effort?
*not planning out goals?
*The perception that they cannot achieve those goals? (If so, why do they feel that way?)
*who new players are exposed to/befriend? (And a lack of other people close to your level.)
*Players getting richer faster with less effort?

^This is what I would like your opinion on.

 

[Atum_Ramirez]

Well, my aim was simply to consider reducing the bonus of donating, but of course i can give my input on your questions =)
Also 99% will be my own thoughts. the other 1% will be when i read the opinion of other new players.

Is it that time advantage + Donations what new players consider impossible, and not just donations?

There will always be a time advantage. A person with 2000h of playing should of course have better options than a person that played 200h.I don't see a problem with persons that have more playing time, having better pokes, and of course, being better than me, because they have much more experience than myself. So I have no problem on others being better than me because they spent more time in the game and probably know much more than me. My problem was about the benefits that may be too big (or not) to donators. So Im fine with older players with more play time being much much much better than me.

If somebody tries to use an Salamence on their team against me, it's an easy kill for my Kangaskhan. Metagross is no problem for the Donphan I caught myself with a bit of effort. Slaking falls to Machamp. Tentacruel and Starmie are common in PvP as well and not hard to find. What is stopping anyone from thinking out of the box and buying cheaper, less used pokemon that do well?

Both you and Kaiser are correct on this one. People can think outside of the box and try their own strategies.
The problem may come when players dont follow their own ideas(or dont have their own ideas xD), and ask to more experienced players for suggestions. For example, I keep hearing "best is Jolteon, Jolteon, Jolteon", but actually I think Electrode could be a good option as an electric type. The thing is, new players tend to ask advice to more experienced players. So I think that problem happens because some new players follow the advice of older ones, but also because some older ones dont think outside of the box like you or kaiser, and those can be used as a reference to the new players of what is good.

To justify my thinking that the problem may be from both sides on choosing the same as the best ones, If people can be competitive withouth being donators, then why so much people buy pokemons in the UC or buy MS or sell tokens to buy pokes? Perhaps the orthodox choices of players on what they think is better may explain it.

Nonetheless, the pokes you choosed were counters to certain threats. I could also say Crobat for Machamp, Hariyama for Kangaskhan, or Dewgong for your Donphan. Naming counters to specific pokes is just going around in circles and proving nothing. If everyone used different pokes, and pvp was full of different teams, in the end of the day, the best battlers would probably be those with the better stats/movepool(slakings,metagrosses,salamences(i have one! yay me xD), or those who have the most adaptable team to the most different pokemons possible.

Donphan just isn't as easy to show off as Meta is despite being a decent battler. You can't walk around town with a normal Donphan and get "oohs" and "aahs," I'll give you that. But is that game-breaking to you and others? If so, why? If it's not, what is?

Bragging rights? I play with pokemon off, so i cant see others pokes. If i could, i would not show mine too. I have a few good pokes and Im not saying im the king of the world, so that is not the issue. The issue is that the MS player finds shinies too easily i think. There is an overflow of Common in the game. I have only one shiny in 200h of playing and I feel like it should be like that. My problem as I stated is that it is to easy to MS to find shinies, and that they have a bigger choice of pokemons than non donators do, and that they have an easy way to get money. 1,5M in a few minutes seems too much to me and unbalanced. A shiny common is a phenomenon to a non donator and it is sold for 50k or 100k, a dollar donated means 1,5M. That's it why I think it is not very well balanced. Also remember that in a game with no EV training, IVs make much more impact. And a shiny means good IVs. MS that hunt the same time as me, will at average, have 4x all round great IV pokes than non donators. 4x seems too much to me for the same time grinding.

I progressed through the game with other people, and whoever trained the most that day would have the advantage. Does that happen as often anymore?

The person I befriended dont logged in anymore, are better than me (and help me when in doubt) or I help them (so are a bit worse than me). So I am kinda in a limbo where I have no friend to compare with xD That may be a problem of mine (or theoretically speaking of those that dont have guilds)

Those elite donators were not my goal, which -according to you- is who newer players REALLY want to compete with at a VERY early time. You say that ultimately, because newer players set the bar too high for themselves, they quit. That seems really odd to me. In fact, why are they so set on those pokemon that quickly, instead of creating steps to reach that goal? Or do they think there are no steps to take, and that they are stuck where they are?

If I sounded like my goal was being competitive with the elite donators, then I appologise, that was not what I wanted to express. My idea is trying to be competitive with other people with the same play time as me, that donate. I dont want a smaller gap between those who start and those who dominate. I want a smaller gap between those that have the same playtime but are donators. Dont know if this gap will lower or get bigger as I move on, but it is a matter of progressing ingame. Newer players though, may get to high goals for themselves. From what i read from other new players, when they get to the 16th badge and ask now what, they dont want to go to pvp because they have the idea they will be fighting against teams full of shinies and loose. Perhaps they dont know any players of their level like me, so they look upwards and get discouraged. Remember that the forum is mostly used by the most experienced players, so is all chat. Dont know if guild players have also this feeling. I presume they know lots of players of their level in the guild, but i dont know really. I do think there are lots of steps to take, and im working for them as I play PWO. But I think that to be at the level of a donator(not a top guy of course!), I will have to spend more time in the game then him/her to reach the same things. That's why I pruposed a reduction of the bonus if the staff had possibility to do it, and of course, the community wanted.

Also, how are new players experiencing the game? Are they seeing people with Sala, then feeling angry that they'll "never" get those kinds of pokemon because it will take them a couple of years to reach that point? (Without realizing it took a year or two for the Sala owner to get that wealthy.) Or are they seeing people who start at the same time as them getting $2,000,000 from 1 token and are discouraged from that?

Dont think people get angry by the big things others have. Also why do you have to hyperbolyze and jump to the sala all of a sudden xD My problem is not about S Salamecence or any other S HR, but it is of the easiness of getting shinies compared to non donators. Instead of S Salamence, lets talk about commons( those are the real life shinies, not the fabled HR or VR ones xD). Could be Horsea, or even those rattatas and paras, that are 50k worth, because there is an overflow of shinies that make common ones not worth that much.

People may get discouraged by the token thing yes. I dont, thats why I play, but still, 1,5M or 2M in a few minutes seems too much unbalanced to me. I know it is the best way to inject money in PWO, and even non donators benefit from it by selling their pokes. But comparing the time and dedication a non donator spends to get 2M, to the easiness of getting it for 1$ seems unbalanced to me. And Im sure others do have the same oppinion.

Can new players meet similar newbie friends to progress through the game with, or is it hard to meet somebody now? Are new players mostly befriending/being exposed to older players, making them feel like the competition is too much?

I think it is easy to meet somebody new in PWO. The chat is very intuitive and easy to use, and there are also guilds. People I befriend are mostly from the help channel, where i received help and now I try to give help when I play. The problem is newbs you meet come and go. You can see in the statistics that most dont stay in PWO. So, many people you meet at PWO sometime, I'll never talk again because they dont log anymore. So I was constantly recycling newbs like me as friends. The people I talk mostly are already people that had lots of playtime in PWO (those im sure will not get out of PWO for a long time). If you are not in the guild early on, it is difficult to go along with newbs, because they just come and go(some before the 16th gym, others after they "beat the game" and think pvp is too much for them). I cant say to who are guild newbies exposed too. The "ronin" ones basically stay in the help channel, so they meet other noobs or helpful experienced players. Normally all chat and the forum is dominated by the more experienced players, and perhaps those that have no guild may use the more experienced players as reference, but that is an assumption. I myself like to go at my own pace(steady and slow wins the race xD)

Is the problem about some combination of these things? If so, which ones and why?


*getting bragging rights?
*winning battles/getting pokemon often considered "the best" for PvP (as true or false as that may be)?
*new players donating and getting richer faster with less effort?
*not planning out goals?
*The perception that they cannot achieve those goals? (If so, why do they feel that way?)
*who new players are exposed to/befriend? (And a lack of other people close to your level.)
*Players getting richer faster with less effort?

I think i have covered most of those questions. If not, you may ask me again those you want more input

I think you are right, donating is not the only issue people may get discouraged continue playing after the 16th badge.

PS: edited because of some awful grammar mistakes, may contain much more, sorry about that

 

[Shiningamisgirl]

-rolls- The answer to the issue..is..Botters. Someone should go run through the 'Ban appeals'/Community watch lists. How many players in there, who were Botters, were also some of the prominent sellers of S Pokemon and max iv pokemon? -cough,Don freaking Q,cough-

That's just the people they catch too. Honestly MS, and the bonus it gives isn't the issue. I bought a Months worth of MS and I only saw 2 Shiny Pokemon throughout (One S Graveler, caught. One S Onix/Seen but not caught.) That was after 5+ days up in Mt. Silver (and we all know time isn't the main factor in S hunting, it's luck + Area + Time)

Since luck is the controlling factor in all things, the problem then must be time devoted to hunting + luck. Since I'm not a robot and cant devote 24/7 to this endeavor in order to up my chances of having good luck, I find less S/great iv pokes. Of course there are other people who don't have this same issue. Maybe it's a matter of how much membership you get? (Though I have found an S poke without membership before.)

I don't think that staff can/should update S find rates. (This coming from a person who has bought/been gifted any S she does own.) They cant do this because Botters will exploit the ever loving kittens out of it. Exploit it until there's nothing left to exploit, and like any good thief, not get caught soon enough to stop the problem.

I definitely do not think they should lower it though! No way! -nods- Cause it'd ruin it for bots, but it'd also ruin it for us normal players. No one should touch the rates. Not yet at least.

Also, Atum. Time spent playing has nothing to do with S catch rate/amazing poke collection. It's not the time spent, it's what you do with it.

Though..I suppose the real question is -I saw Blue made an awesome stats chart!- Of all the S Pokemon caught in the game. How many of those were caught by bots, and how many of those were caught by normal players? And how many of these bots had Membership when they caught these Pokemon. I'm sure its calculable. It might even answer THE question.

Is it time, luck, membership, all of the above?

Also, I don't think there are to many S pokemon in circulation at the moment. I think everything is fine. I mean, come on! Out of nearly 15-Million Pokemon ingame; only 118,867 of them are Shiny! Don't forget the nearly 5 Million Pokemon that are not released! (Which I imagine means, held in Botted or Active Player accounts? )

 

[Atum_Ramirez]

Haven't really thought about the bot factor in the number of pokes in the game. Hope you don't mind I express my opinion on your thoughts.

First of all, i think you changed your mind/contradicted yourself during your writing xD
First you say that:

The answer to the issue..is..Botters. Someone should go run through the 'Ban appeals'/Community watch lists. How many players in there, who were Botters, were also some of the prominent sellers of S Pokemon and max iv pokemon?

So in the beggining you say that it is an issue but you finish your post with:

Also, I don't think there are to many S pokemon in circulation at the moment. I think everything is fine. I mean, come on! Out of nearly 15-Million Pokemon ingame; only 118,867 of them are Shiny! Don't forget the nearly 5 Million Pokemon that are not released! (Which I imagine means, held in Botted or Active Player accounts? )

So the amount of in game is an issue or not? xD

Since luck is the controlling factor in all things, the problem then must be time devoted to hunting + luck.

I agree it is hours of hunting plus luck. But I think the luck factor starst to be smaller the more time you spend hunting. So in the end it is all about odds/probability i think. It's like heads or tails. In the first 10 times, you may get 1 heads and 9 tails. But if you throw it 1Million times (hypothetically speaking xD) you will have close to 50% on both heads and tails. Its like hunting. If you hunt 50h non stop, you may get only 1 shiny and another person with the same time hunting has seen 4. But when you reach 2000h, it will be more even between the 2 players. The luck factor lowers the more time you are hunting. So in the end, MS will always have 4x more probability to find than non donators. If there was a possibility to reduce to x3,5 why would it be so bad on the game if it still managed to make the necessary money with donations?

They cant do this because Botters will exploit the ever loving kittens out of it. Exploit it until there's nothing left to exploit, and like any good thief, not get caught soon enough to stop the problem.

Botters will always exploit if it is 1/2000 or 1/200 or 1/20000. Dont think that justifies making the game unchange its odds, because they will always exploit whatever the odds are.

I definitely do not think they should lower it though! No way! -nods- Cause it'd ruin it for bots, but it'd also ruin it for us normal players. No one should touch the rates. Not yet at least.

People say that 1/8000 is fine for non donators. I also agree with them (wouldnt mind if it would be even more difficult actually). If 1/8000 is fine for non donators, why would a change from 1/2000 to, say 1/2500 or 1/3000 ruin it? Also if it should not be changed now, then when? and why?

Also, Atum. Time spent playing has nothing to do with S catch rate/amazing poke collection. It's not the time spent, it's what you do with it.

You are absolutely right about that. But dont also x4 odds also help on S catch rate?

Though..I suppose the real question is -I saw Blue made an awesome stats chart!- Of all the S Pokemon caught in the game. How many of those were caught by bots, and how many of those were caught by normal players? And how many of these bots had Membership when they caught these Pokemon. I'm sure its calculable. It might even answer THE question.

Is it time, luck, membership, all of the above?

Very interesting thought. It would be fantastic to know the percentage of shinies caught by bots.

About the later question, i think luck is an important factor early one, loosing its importance the more time you spend hunting. Time is the main factor i think. And of course, membership helps(specially the dedicated hunters that spend much time in the "hunt") with their lowering of odds to 1/4 of the normal value. Atleast that's what makes sense to me, I might be wrong of course.

 

[mhanth4f]

So people actually 'donate' only to get sparkly edward cullen? wow my whole life is a lie.

 

[Julio~]

So people actually 'donate' only to get sparkly edward cullen? wow my whole life is a lie.

I suppose you're right. The most of them only donate to have a chance of catch an Edward Cullen (preferentially rare+ ones) and when this doesn't happen we see a lot of people getting annoyed and making sequencial posts. Experience points have minor interest, I believe, at least for me.

 

[mhanth4f]

So people actually 'donate' only to get sparkly edward cullen? wow my whole life is a lie.

I suppose you're right. The most of them only donate to have a chance of catch an Edward Cullen (preferentially rare+ ones) and when this doesn't happen we see a lot of people getting annoyed and making sequencial posts. Experience points have minor interest, I believe, at least for me.

I really thought that they donate for really donating and ingame token cash or whatever is that is just a gift from the dev for them to donate.. so theres no term of BUYING MEMBERSHIP but hey.. its money i suppose.

 

[KaiReborn]

Most donators are collectors, no surprise that their token investment will end up -one way or another- linked to shiny pokemon

 

[Julio~]

So people actually 'donate' only to get sparkly edward cullen? wow my whole life is a lie.

I suppose you're right. The most of them only donate to have a chance of catch an Edward Cullen (preferentially rare+ ones) and when this doesn't happen we see a lot of people getting annoyed and making sequencial posts. Experience points have minor interest, I believe, at least for me.

I really thought that they donate for really donating and ingame token cash or whatever is that is just a gift from the dev for them to donate.. so theres no term of BUYING MEMBERSHIP but hey.. its money i suppose.

Excuse me. I generalized when I spoke about donations but the main reason for the most of players who buy membership is catch shiny pokémons. Currently we don't hear players saying ''I'm donating to to help the game'', they are constantly saying ''I'm buying tokens'', which is not the correct term but it's the popular one. Your throught is correct, but anyway shiny pokémons still are the main reason for membership buyers or pokémon buyers (I believe anyone donate for only doing it. Tokens are the reason, for sure). As we could see in the stats of 2013 that Bluerise released for us.

 

[mhanth4f]

So people actually 'donate' only to get sparkly edward cullen? wow my whole life is a lie.

I suppose you're right. The most of them only donate to have a chance of catch an Edward Cullen (preferentially rare+ ones) and when this doesn't happen we see a lot of people getting annoyed and making sequencial posts. Experience points have minor interest, I believe, at least for me.

I really thought that they donate for really donating and ingame token cash or whatever is that is just a gift from the dev for them to donate.. so theres no term of BUYING MEMBERSHIP but hey.. its money i suppose.

Excuse me. I generalized when I spoke about donations but the main reason for the most of players who buy membership is catch shiny pokémons. Currently we don't hear players saying ''I'm donating to to help the game'', they are constantly saying ''I'm buying tokens'', which is not the correct term but it's the popular one. Your throught is correct, but anyway shiny pokémons still are the main reason for membership buyers or pokémon buyers (I believe anyone donate for only doing it. Tokens are the reason, for sure). As we could see in the stats of 2013 that Bluerise released for us.

then why dont they change the term already to.. "BUY TOKEN FOR THE GAME"!

 

[Atum_Ramirez]

then why dont they change the term already to.. "BUY TOKEN FOR THE GAME"!

Because Nintendo would probably sue PWO for making money on their trademark pokemons, and PWO would be shut down. So yeah, people do buy tokens, but the word need to be donate to avoid any problems with Nintendo.

But you have to remember that, if there were no advantages to donation, people wouldn't do it as much, and PWO would not have enough money to sustain the server for everyone to enjoy the game. So it is necessary to a non profit game like PWO to do that, and "give" things for people who "donate".

 

[Jinji]

Being entirely honest, part of the reason the Token System exists is to cater for the selfish desires many online gamers have. Quite frankly, while I'm sure there are a good number of you who would continue to donate to us even if the Token Store was closed tomorrow, just to support our very existence; we know, as many of you yourselves have admitted, that there are a greater number of players for whom, if they did not feel that their donations were giving them something that has a true benefit, would be less or even completely unwilling to donate at all. So Tokens are our way of giving you value for your donation as an appreciation for the value it gives us, even if truly you deserve nothing back at all. As proof of this, please realise that Tokens in PWO were not always associated - for at least the first year of our life; and even well past the second if memory serves me correctly, there was no such thing as a Token Store at all.

The Tokens granted to a user in return for a donation are a gift from us as part of our commitment to go above and beyond to show care and appreciation for our player base. This does not change the fact that a donation is still a donation. The Tokens are not a legal contract; there is no exchange of sale performed or any binding agreement on our part to deliver them at all. In fact, technically we have the right to discontinue Tokens and all related services tomorrow if we so decided, without even being obligated to offer any prior notice or compensation. We will not do this, however, because we care for our community and above all else, will never do anything that wasn't in your best interests if it can at all be avoided.

Now, one can argue that by exchanging your tokens for in-game goods or services; or benefits such as membership - which ARE transactions - one is, albeit indirectly, buying such goods through their donations and claim it as a "sale". However, the "sale" agreement is for the Tokens, not for the money used to obtain them. Further, it is not required to hand any physical money at all just to have Tokens - while it may be the most direct method, Tokens are also occasionally granted through entries to Staff-ran competitions and sweepstakes; or directly by Staff as appreciation for a Player's works within our game or community (as an example, search for the Lighthouse Mapping Contest). These require no financial contribution from the player at all. In this way, links between money and Tokens are not implicit; and donating for Tokens and using said Tokens for in-game purchases remain entirely separate activities.