And therein lies the problem. In any case - I believe I've said all that I care to say publicly on this matter.
The odds need to be displayed. If staff fear donation shortfalls then something else needs to change. Either stop changing the odds (easiest option), stop selling token store pokemon and/or shiny chances, or lower the price to something people are willing to pay, fully informed. Common sense does not allow that it should cost $1000-1500 to have an even shot at getting a shiny, in a children's game. Adults will wear diapers and soil themselves when they think their slot machine is hot. How do we expect kids to stop buying TS pokes when they think the next one will be shiny?
That would be another good solution. But why not just display the odds? Nobody has said any good reasons not to.In that case, I would argue that a better course of action would actually be to increase our own social responsibility by limiting excessive donations and token redemption. I would actually be deeply concerned if I discovered the primary motivation for a donor is because they were seeking a specific shiny and would actually suggest such people probably need some sort of intervention.
I said "almost like a form of theft", meaning it's related to theft, but I don't know the exact fancy big word for it. Entrapment, enticement, deception, idk, based on odds that baffle common sense. Those words aren't right either, just re-read my whole paragraph.So you complain about the economy, you complain about good token pokemon being too hard to get, you complain about shiny chances both in game and in token store being too hard, and then you complain how "donations" are "theft".
Again, all I ever asked for is easier, still too difficult, and not easy. I don't even care about reducing the token shiny odds, just tell us what they are, and display it prominently. I don't get why it's a big deal whatsoever - it should have been done already....you would be the first to post another compliant on forums about how the economy is bad because it's now too hard to sell your good/shiny token pokemon that everyone now already has.
Nobody has threatened me or told me to stop. Threatening without giving good reasons not to reveal the odds, might tempt other more cynical people to interpret that as an admission of intent to deceive. Citing a likely decline in donations as a reason not to reveal the odds is basically the same thing.threatening with countermeasures
honesty and transparency
Your logic is flawed. In an ideal world people would donate without any incentive, only to help. In our less than perfect world most people donate primarily for the tokens, and helping the server is a side-bonus. (Altruism ratio varying per player and over time). If we removed the token store and memberships altogether, I guarantee donations would drop to almost nothing.that logic is flawed because it might called a token store but in reality you donate to keep the server up and as an insentive you get tokens
That's because there were still memberships, which probably account for the bulk of donations, and the game used to have hundreds of players on at all times.we had many years without any shiny chance and people still donated
Lee doesn't get a paycheck either way. Excess donations, we're told, go to charity.you don't buy tokens to give lee a paycheck.
I already said that I would support this. But they should also reveal the TS shiny odds. Even one TS poke costs a lot of money for what it is.jinji said he'd rather look into limiting the amount you can donate over letting people spam
This works against your argument. If it was so easy back then, those players don't deserve to have their untouchable monopoly of wealth preserved forever, forbidding any changes to prices/odds. My understanding is that there's very few (if any) of those purchased shinies remaining on active accounts.we had years you can outright buy a shiny for 25$
Oh, i know that, and agree with that, you need to be a monkey not to see that (no offense to anyone ofc)Your logic is flawed. In an ideal world people would donate without any incentive, only to help. In our less than perfect world most people donate primarily for the tokens, and helping the server is a side-bonus. (Altruism ratio varying per player and over time). If we removed the token store and memberships altogether, I guarantee donations would drop to almost nothing.
Exactly, There are still memberships,items,none shinies, that people can get from donating. and i'm sure if funds are needed, a better insentive will pop up.That's because there were still memberships, which probably account for the bulk of donations, and the game used to have hundreds of players on at all times.
That's exactly my point, you donate to keep the server up, you just argued my point for me, chances aren't hidden to manipulate players, they're hidden (i assume, as i'm not staff) to avoid arguamnts just like this one "it's too high, " "it's too low " "raise it " "lower it "Lee doesn't get a paycheck either way. Excess donations, we're told, go to charity.
Actually, it was just for a day iirc, as an event of some kind, forgive my old man brain was many years ago, and they're untouchable because it's not possible to earn atm without being lucky. you can't hold it against old players, it all goes back to your npc suggestion, if you let people earn, they will, and can buy anything, hard work should be rewarded not just luck.This works against your argument. If it was so easy back then, those players don't deserve to have their untouchable monopoly of wealth preserved forever, forbidding any changes to prices/odds.
You're given a FREE choice to buy a shiny chance, it's a chance, you don't have to, you can buy ms or sell the tokens or do any kind of things, it's something you choose to do.Keeping the TS shiny odds secret seems (in absence of compelling reasons) a calculated psychological manipulation to extract the most money from players. If staff want people to donate more altruistically, be honest and transparent with players,
And we could tell those players "if you don't like the odds, don't buy any TS pokemons", and many would heed the warnings. The way it is now, people spend their money before realizing they barely had a chance. There's more freedom in making an informed decision than in an uninformed decision. I can "freely" choose to start smoking even if I don't know it's addictive and causes cancer. Yeah we can blame the player either way, but PWO holds some ethical responsibility too because the common sense expectation is so far from the probable outcome. Especially since many players are children and their guardians wouldn't know how difficult PWO is. Would your argument change if the odds were secretly 1 in 100 billion?That's exactly my point, you donate to keep the server up, you just argued my point for me, chances aren't hidden to manipulate players, they're hidden (i assume, as i'm not staff) to avoid arguamnts just like this one "it's too high, " "it's too low " "raise it " "lower it "
You must really underestimate the intelligence of the player base. XD I'm sure people assume it to be closer to the 2%-5% range with maybe 10% tops. A majority of players are not so naive as to assume it's anywhere near 50% LOL Just because most players don't go out of their way to come off as being smart, doesn't mean they are complete fools. I mean I've never considered my self overly smart, but even I have always considered it to be no greater than 1/80 - 1/100 odds. (Odds just around 1% or more)Someone potentially donating $100 deserves to know if they have a 5% chance or a 50% chance at getting a shiny pokemon. I'm pretty sure most people would naively assume it's closer to 50% or higher,
At this point you just seem to want to bump the thread ;pCome on guys.. reveal the shiny odds. I still think you should make the token store pokes cheaper too.. but if you won't do that, at least reveal the token store shiny odds please.
Me?? Never..At this point you just seem to want to bump the thread ;p
should just have a option to buy a shiny for $100
So only looking for any opinions that don't differ from yours? Got it!It's not pointless, I just spent an entire thread explaining why it's necessary. Looking for opinions not by Jinji, Boora or Jobey please. No anti-vaxxers in this thread.