Display Token Store shiny odds; Make TS "daily deal" discount stack with MS discount.

thunderclap

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This is two suggestions in one: firstly,

1. Token store shiny odds should be made publicly known and prominently displayed. They MUST be, to not do so is highly shady and unethical. By and large this is real money people are spending on TS pokes, and it's likely to be young people buying them... who have little understanding of probability...


2. The daily deal should stack with the membership discount.
Right now there's no deal for people who have a membership.

Expensive pokes:
10500 regular price
8714 with membership (17% off)
6877 with ms and daily deal (17+17.5% off)

Normal pokes:
7500 regular price
6225 with membership (17% off)
4912 with ms and daily deal (34.5% off)

Token store pokemon are wildly overpriced for what you are statistically likely to get, IVs-wise. Especially after converting to Canadian dollars. These prices would still be overpriced IMO, but a bit more enticing for players and a good compromise since you want everything to be expensive.

My original suggestion (on Discord) was 30% off membership prices but was denied.


To say again, Token store shiny odds should be made publicly known and prominently displayed.
 
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thunderclap

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RE: Make token store "daily deal" discount stack with MS discount; Display TS shiny odds.

Just giving this thread a subtle bump so it doesn't get buried under my other suggestion threads ;). I personally think this is a great idea. The lack of interest tells me token pokes are so expensive that nobody cares about them. People see the words "token store" and immediately think "ripoff" and that the thread is of no interest to them.

Even if you refuse to give better daily deals, you should (IMO) feel obligated to reveal the shiny odds for token store pokemon. This is real money people are spending, often times little kids' allowances and birthday money.

Yes it's people's money we're talking about, plain and simple. There isn't enough Pd cash flow in this game to pretend token store purchases are anything but USD cash flow. Few people could afford to buy the tokens to buy even one TS pokemon using Pd, and virtually nobody does, given the horrendous value proposition.

PWO exists in a legal grey-zone and "tokens" only exist to help justify the notion that any USD cash transfers are "donations" and that the game is non-profit. To be clear I'm not insinuating that any PWO staff is making money (any extra $ goes to charity). But obscuring the TS shiny odds does nothing to preserve the grey-zone loophole.

From what people tell me, the TS shiny odds are lower than what common sense would dictate. The prices are certainly much higher than what common sense dictates, given the likely result (garbage ivs). This probably turns all kinds of well-meaning players with disposable income away from the game.
 

Jobey

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Another suggestion about making shiny pokemon easier eh? Okay then lol
 

Boora

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You're arguing only your point while quickly passing by the main issue.
As much as people like to say "it's only a donation because pwo isn't allowed to gain money", IT IS A DONATION
You donate to the server and in return you can buy a pokemon that not many people have, the iv's or if it's shiny is a matter of luck, the game was not meant for you or anyone else to "spam" tokens to get a shiny version, it's suppose to be a lucky bonus, the issue is much deeper, with pwo being around for over 10 years and never having a wipe, the gen3 pokes are no longer rare as none shinies, hence why you completely ignored the none shiny versions which are meant to be the gift and jumped into their shiny version,
i do agree that the gen3 pokemon as insentive to donate is getting old by now and unless people spam for a shiny they don't have any insentive to donate, but the shiny version is meant to be luck not spam
if someone can afford to do that, it should be expensive in my opinion.
It's suppose to go like this "i feel like helping the server and i can get a cool gen 3 or membership in return, that's awesome"
not "iight time to spam 50 feebas's and hope for a shiny"
i'm not saying it's wrong, to each their own, but it isn't meant to be like that.

if you want a better insentive to donate i'm with you, if you want shinies to be easier, i'm against it. Again, online+no wipe=more and more over time = not rare anymore/not special.
 

thunderclap

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Boora said:
You're arguing only your point while quickly passing by the main issue.
As much as people like to say "it's only a donation because pwo isn't allowed to gain money", IT IS A DONATION
You donate to the server and in return you can buy a pokemon that not many people have, the iv's or if it's shiny is a matter of luck, the game was not meant for you or anyone else to "spam" tokens to get a shiny version, it's suppose to be a lucky bonus, the issue is much deeper, with pwo being around for over 10 years and never having a wipe, the gen3 pokes are no longer rare as none shinies, hence why you completely ignored the none shiny versions which are meant to be the gift and jumped into their shiny version,
i do agree that the gen3 pokemon as insentive to donate is getting old by now and unless people spam for a shiny they don't have any insentive to donate, but the shiny version is meant to be luck not spam
if someone can afford to do that, it should be expensive in my opinion.
It's suppose to go like this "i feel like helping the server and i can get a cool gen 3 or membership in return, that's awesome"
not "iight time to spam 50 feebas's and hope for a shiny"  
i'm not saying it's wrong, to each their own, but it isn't meant to be like that.

if you want a better insentive to donate i'm with you, if you want shinies to be easier, i'm against it. Again, online+no wipe=more and more over time = not rare anymore/not special.
Regardless of it being a donation, the token store shiny odds should be revealed. People should know that their chances are VERY low, much lower than common sense would dictate.

The price of regular token store pokemon is too high. The most likely result is a crappy low ivs pokemon worth 100k pd. If you sold memberships with tokens you'd be making 40 times that much. Yes, it's technically a donation, but let's not split hairs about using the word "price". It's a token store after all.

I think I rebutted both your and Jobey's arguments pretty thoroughly regarding shinies being too easy (and other things) in my other thread.. go respond there if you think you have anything to say on the matter. Boora, your motives/opinions seem kinda contradictory or selfish considering you want staff to be giving away free shiny Tier4 pokemon to battlers..

And Jobey - would you have donated $1000 to PWO if you knew the shiny odds going in? Or did you spam $100 trying for Charizard, and then go all-in because of the sunk-cost fallacy? I'm sure you've rationalized it in your head by now, but try to think about your state of mind at the time before telling me how wrong I am.
 

Jobey

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My state of mind was perfectly fine going after a shiny Charmander (minor insanity is perfectly acceptable XD.) I could of cared less of odds (looked at it like gambling at a casino and had fun with it lol) I knew it would be hard to get considering I knew how few had one. Your issue is you don't want to try too hard for anything. Again something you seem to fail to understand  is what makes shiny pokemon unique and special, which is their rarity. The sooner  you understand "unique", "rarity", and "special" and what they mean and how they apply to this game, the sooner you can quit making posts about how the game is too hard to get stuff that is supposed to be rare and hard to get and more importantly the sooner you can accept it and get back to enjoying the game for what it is. Also, token store IVs are fine. If you start making IVs guaranteed to be higher, then this game pretty much becomes pay to win which isn't fair to players who don't have a ton of real life money to spend on here.

We get it, you want easier shiny pokemon, easier rare pokemon, and easy good token store pokemon. I'm just like you, I would love this too but the fact is it simply wouldn't be the right thing to do and is not what's best for this game. If you want any pokemon to be shiny with any IVs with all its moves available play showdown, you will see how much less "wow" these pokemon are when everybody has them, I actually got bored of seeing them LOL (you don't even have to hunt for them or train them. You just want them, get them, and customise them.)  Try to see the bigger picture and things will make much more sense. I drove myself crazy worrying about shiny chances and such (in game chances btw never had issues with TS chances) when I played my first tenure from June 2016 till July 2017 (as well as my time from October 2017- January 2018.) When I came back to this game In July of this year I had a different mindset and realized how silly I was before. These rare and special pokemon are so rare and special because they are so uncommon and so hard to get. If these pokemon were easy then they would be no more special than the rats, bats, and birds of PWO.
 

thunderclap

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I only ever advocate for slightly easier shiny odds, not easy. This game is WAY too difficult, and it would still be too difficult if my suggestions were implemented. We can't base all decisions on the game on protecting those who got ultra-rich just by virtue of having played in like 2011. Those who are already ultra-rich should not be so selfish to demand 0 change.

If we had a NPC that would let you trade in shinies or pokemons for a reward, you wouldn't see the market flooded and prices crashing.
 

Boora

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If we had a NPC that would let you trade in shinies or pokemons for a reward, you wouldn't see the market flooded and prices crashing.
Yes, 100% agreed, and with this you'll be able to afford any poke you want with hard work and not luck.

But, my opinion hasn't changed, making things easier in an online game is a bad idea, time can be your best ally or worst enemy,
just an example, most s uc's are around 50-100m, that's 100-200k tokens, that's like 15 -30 tries +- chances of you getting one in 15-30 are quite low already, now imagine making it easier , it'll lower the price overtime yet the token price will stay relevant since it has other uses, hence making it pointless to go after shinies in the first place, it's just one example, but honestly, i'm for either that npc you mentioned, or a total wipe.
a clean slate after 10+ years is due.
 

Boora

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That's fair, and even though i don't feel the same i respect that all the way.
But those are the only two option to make shiny commons and any "rare" pokemons useable again
in almost everygame you can re-sell items/consumables to an npc for a fee,
I think the wipe is a good idea because let's be honest, shiny commons/none shiny uc's/T4/5's will NEVER and i mean NEVER be valuable again.
And frankly having an active trade chat of "B>(S)karp B>feebas " doesn't sound too bad to me, as long we're all even, but again, to each thier own and i will never tell someone to give up thier hard work for a wipe. but if there was a vote, i'd vote yes.
 

shodan21

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yeah, clean wipe is a legit non-starter, i have way too many solid pokes that i caught myself, plus all the event UCs will have to be reintroduced, etc.

not gonna happen.

also, as with most of this stuff, it probably wouldn't be so bad if there were lots more players, since there would be more things made available and the rich players wouldnt be able to hoard them all as easily. but of course, pwo wont get many more players by remaining stagnant in its permanent content, so really it all comes back to sevii and hoenn, as per usual :p
 

shodan21

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also i dont really care one way or the other about displaying the odds, but the membership discount thing looks good.
 

Isguros

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So, the cat is out of the bag: the staff team has finally gone on record saying the reason for why they haven't disclosed the Tokenstore shiny odds is because they change them every now and then. Personally, I rest a little bit easier knowing this is the reason rather than it being because the odds are so low, it would scare people off... though, concealing the reason and quashing all inquiries to the matter by questioning people's motives, replying with an uncooperative and dismissive response, or threatening with countermeasures almost negates it entirely. They could have spun it fantastically by admitting to it, stating to be doing so they could make sure it wouldn't be unthinkable of finding a shiny and it would retain its value no matter the state of community etc. etc.. Some honesty and transparency would have gone a long way.
 

thunderclap

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The current odds are definitely low enough to scare some people off. But knowing that, isn't it almost a form of theft to let people continue buying TS pokes, without revealing the odds? Even if staff change the odds sometimes, they can easily adjust the circled text suggested in my above post.
 

Isguros

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Even if staff change the odds sometimes, they can easily adjust the circled text suggested in my above post.
I think revealing the odds would make people hesitant to buy tokens; expecting the odds to change in their favour later on and trying to play the system by holding out until then. This would not only disrupt the potentially good intentions the staff might have had, but it could also potentially endanger the necessary funds to keep the server up and running.
 

thunderclap

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The odds need to be displayed. If staff fear donation shortfalls then something else needs to change. Either stop changing the odds (easiest option), stop selling token store pokemon and/or shiny chances, or lower the price to something people are willing to pay, fully informed. Common sense does not allow that it should cost $1000-1500 to have an even shot at getting a shiny, in a children's game. Adults will wear diapers and soil themselves when they think their slot machine is hot. How do we expect kids to stop buying TS pokes when they think the next one will be shiny?
 

Jinji

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In that case, I would argue that a better course of action would actually be to increase our own social responsibility by limiting excessive donations and token redemption. I would actually be deeply concerned if I discovered the primary motivation for a donor is because they were seeking a specific shiny and would actually suggest such people probably need some sort of intervention.
 

Isguros

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I would actually be deeply concerned if I discovered the primary motivation for a donor is because they were seeking a specific shiny
I'd like to refer you to something Jinji said the other day. It kinda shows how much shiny Pokemon are cherished compared to their regular counterparts:
I remember once proposing a reversal of the system - opting people in to a Shiny chance by default, but offer a discount if people did NOT want the Shiny chance. IIRC, it was felt no sane person would opt out xD
 
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