The project for the future.

Fadoka

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This thread is no joke, its no messing around and its not about having fun except in a way of all of us to enjoy. It's the roots for the huge stem of the tree and if it's really taken into consideration and followed, good things are guaranteed because as for the state of the game, this comes from the pure future with a head full of experience after a long ride.

Keeping it short: I'll discuss future updates that we rather need than just suggest.

First of all: Viable and healthy Legendary Pokemon.
It's clear that players dream of using legendary pokemon and in my opinion, some legendary pokemon are healthy to be used as it generates more fun and adds a lot to the PvP meta.
I repeat there is a healthy way of letting "Some of the legendary pokemon" being released. And this basically depends on the base stat they have in total. We would only have the legendary pokemon with 600 total base stats or less. like presented here: 1709024610334.png
It's pretty clear that adding pokemon like: Celebi, Cresselia, Genesect, Heatran, Jirachi, Landorus (and forms), Latias, Latios, Manaphy, Mew, Meloetta, Shaymin, Victini, Volcaniona and Zygarde (As well as few more that are currently higher than the available generation that PWO has).
Adding such pokemon is pretty much healthy for them having the same base stat as some of very common pokemon we have and their forms. Like Houmdoom, Scizor, Metagross, Dragonite, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Tyranitar.
Imagine such pokemon we already have in game and that are already released over the ages, have the same base total IVs of the said legendary pokemon upwards.
There is no fear in letting them in, especially that each of the said pokemon upawards have their own downfalls and can be countered by already available pokemon in the meta. For example: Choice specs Hydreigon can OHKO a celebi, can ohko a Mew, can also OHKO Latias and Latios if they are hit. Dragonite can simple Earthquake a Heatran to OHKO it, Tyranitar can ohko pretty much most of the psychic type pokemon among them. Ok you know what? A trash houndoom from the wild can fireblast ohko a Jirachi.

It tournaments such legendary pokemon can be played and can be countered. There is no need to ban a 600 base IVs pokemon unless they exceed 600. That's how handheld VGC Championship Series events work as well as trusted platforms like Pokemon Showdown.

It's not a matter of being afraid to let things fit in, it's a matter of understanding, seeing things from experienced eyes and I won't say apply but think about it first, knowing that it's the best way to keep the whole thing alive.

Second of all: The way of releasing such Legendary Pokemon and their availability.
The healthy way to release such legendary pokemon is eventual.
1- By that I mean each big event during the year (Like Christmas and Halloween), one of the said legendary pokemon can be released in a form of a quest during that event.
2- Each legendary pokemon to be only one available per player. For example everyone will have "only one Mew".
3- IVs for legendary pokemon can head into two ways: 1- Random IVs, 2- Fixed IVs to all players (For example: All 20 IVs) and we could get an option to get an IV settled by winning a tournament prize or something.
4- The quest of catching the legendary pokemon is to be repeated instantly through a point at it if the player failed to complete it first hand at once.

Understanding the concept of having us players using legendary pokemon eventually and on the long run will actually generate more fun to players, to the PvP meta and it's what keeps the flame lightening. All we need are some guts and real commitment from those who love the game.
And that takes us to introducing natures.


Third of all: The pokemon natures.
It's pretty obvious that real platforms have natures on pokemon. But here, its seems like we are afraid or we don't know how their introduction can be fair for everyone. Don't worry I have the solution.
You have to divide the source of "fairness" to "prior update and post update".
As for prior update:
This is basically all the pokemon that we have/will have before that nature update. Such pokemon will need to have their nature chosen on playerdex by players only once and not to be edited again.
As for post update: These pokemon will have their natures caught in wild based on a nature hunting system that I will present directly.

Changing the natures/ability won't be a one time thing for old players as there will be a backup for this case in the prize corner part that I'll present later on.


Such way of balancing prior update and post update for nature will provide a fair approach for both the old and new players to hunt and collect and also PvP.

Fourth of all: The Hunting system base on natures.
It's no secret that real/official pokemon platforms have a hunting system which depends on a crucial factor which is the ability "Synchronize".
Ok I'll break this down in details. Once natures are introduced in game, of course wild pokemon will have random natures on them. Unless the players hunt with synchronize ability pokemon with them like Abra/Evos, Natu/Evo etc.
Simply, How Synchronize ability pokemon works is that it give the wild pokemon 50% chance to trace the nature of the pokemon with synchronize you're using.

For example: I'm having an adamant nature Alakazam that I use in hunting. Right now I encountered a Dratini. This Dratini has a 50% chance of being Adamant nature and 50% of being a Random nature.

Some may ask: How can we get the synchronize pokemon with the ability we need in first place? It's pretty simple and obvious:
Once the natures are introduced in game, we will simply go and hunt abras and catch many of them because they will have random natures. Then we will be able to achieve the natures we want among them once and for good for the only first time of hunting random ability Abras.


Fifth of all: The Prize corner and voucher system.
It is pretty obvious and clear to all of us that the current prize corner (in Celadon/Goldenrod) is pretty much "burned out". The prizes are out dated as they don't have their high values anymore. This is due to swarms (which are actually great) that made such pokemon like Togepi, Munchlax, Kabuto and some more Voucher pokemon available and we were able to grind them along time we attended such swarms. And because of this, the system needs to change as follow:

1- The addition of Ability capsules and Nature capsules:
Simply here like mentioned above in the second sector, we need to have the ability to be able to change the natures and ability of older pokemon prior the updates that we never had a hand in making them what they are. For example you bought a Tyranitar with unnerve instead of sand stream. And it was a very expensive Tyranitar caught as a Larvitar by someone who is clueless. You can get the ability to change this mess the same way you change EVs via berries.

2- The addition of new fossils and pokemon:
All the tier on rewards of prize corners have to be remade. All the pokemon available there are already there during swarms. All you need to keep is the Exp. Share and the evolution items. Aside from that, we got to have are the new fossil pokemon like Skull fossil (Cranidos), Armor fossil (Shieldon), Cover fossil (Tirtouga), Plume fossil (Archen) and eventually: Jaw fossil (Tyrunt) and Sail Fossil (Amaura). All this while keeping the older fossils for those shiny collectors or those who don't have them yet.

3- The addition of evolution items:
Just like the current available evolution items (for Electabuzz and Magmar). We can have more evolution items available based on its balance with the evolution items we get via event coins on events and the available pokemon on the prize corner/in game.


Sixth of all: The Token store system.
I wont say much or give direct examples but you guys know if you round up the token store with popular pokemon along time for short periods to get the shiny collectors looking for them, you're getting donations as well as interested players. Because the current token store pokemon are old fashioned and people don't care about 95% of them anymore.



Seventh of all: The daily prizes system.
It's no secret that the new players are always asking around about way of how to make money fast so It's for the new players more than the old players. Oh, its even for all the players to come and play actively on a daily basis. You guys can do mini quest NPCs that will provide a reward like few amount of cash ranging from 10k to 50k as well as some TMs to players that finish such quests.

The quest ideas can be simple, its like beating a certain NPC in a battle or hunting a total sum of IVs of a T1/T2 pokemon maximum in game then submitting it to such NPC.
This will keep the game fresh on a daily basis along with already on going quests like Quartz as well as the battle tower and E4.




Eighth of all: The Final and the most important one: The PvP system.
Keeping it short and tight into points:
1- Team Preview system:
This is simply having the ability to see the opponent's line up of 6 pokemon before the battle starts so you'd even choose which pokemon you would start your game with. This is on all platforms, on all official games and on all VGC official tournaments and even on the anime. It provides a sense of better game play among players and it's really important to realize and know what pokemon to save and what pokemon you could let faint during the game. It's more important and crucial than everything that is mentioned above and can be made separately aside as a priority compart to this whole discussed project.

2- Spectator system:
This allows other players to be able to spectate and watch the game and what is happening without the battlers having to record the battles. Of course its self-explanatory how important and how much fun this can bring.


3- Scrollable battle logs and showing damage RNG in percentage:
You being able to scroll to see what moves happened in what turns and the damage in percentage caused by the hits, will help you play better next turns as well as you can cover up in case you lose attention at one point.


In the end I would just note that this is works as a whole and it's well balanced and each sector depends on the other. It can be released all at once better than having each sector made at a point. Like being done on Sevii.
This update is for the future and it came from the future with a head full of experience as well.

Discussions are opened and positive reviews are needed and voices do matter in the development of the game.

Fadoka~
 
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Aevero

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Note for future self: Reply to this thread with better answers after we have released the Sevii Expansion update.

Sadly cannot answer with the discussion you might be looking for from staff side just yet.
It is an incredibly good write up, with detailed and thought out balanced ideas. I can safely say we've had discussions in the past on every one of these points at some point behind staff doors, so you're nailing the big ticket items.
 

Fadoka

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Note for future self: Reply to this thread with better answers after we have released the Sevii Expansion update.

Sadly cannot answer with the discussion you might be looking for from staff side just yet.
It is an incredibly good write up, with detailed and thought out balanced ideas. I can safely say we've had discussions in the past on every one of these points at some point behind staff doors, so you're nailing the big ticket items.
It's actually great to see that you like it and that you guys have discussed such things before. I've brought up such stuff on PWO discord server before but I wanted to write it in a neat way to be a reference in full details. We really hope that the future is bright for the game and even more than expected.
 

ImTachi

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Understanding the points mentioned above, I can say it's definitely needed for PWO to grow player base like it was before, and yeah it's not deniable that Legendary pokemons play a huge factor to attract new players as well as old players to return. And a realising 600 bst legendaries only is a very good start as this help pvp to grow as well in PWO. Other than that legendaries are more of a title. Comparing a legendary's BST with a pseudo legendary or a normal pokemon's BST is a positive way to showcase their value.

I don't have much to say about their releasing process, I totally agree with these points:
1- By that I mean each big event during the year (Like Christmas and Halloween), one of the said legendary pokemon can be released in a form of a quest during that event.
2- Each legendary pokemon to be only one available per player. For example everyone will have "only one Mew".
3- IVs for legendary pokemon can head into two ways: 1- Random IVs, 2- Fixed IVs to all players (For example: All 20 IVs)
4- The quest of catching the legendary pokemon is to be repeated instantly through a point at it if the player failed to complete it first hand at once.
This proposal support every type of player base including new players. Thumbs up :D

"What about nature of pokemons?"
"Are they even needed now?"
Well, I never actually think about it. But now when i think it's more complicated than it sounds, "what about the pokemons we already have?"
I imagine a player hunt a high tier pokemon and ended up with some bad nature when it's introduce in game.
And what if they're Customizable in playerdex just like abilities, Isn't that'll make Old players having perfect pokemons, and that'll be a huge disadvantage for new players in terms of PVP.
An item to change natures are so small for a old player to pay, to get perfect natures in their pokemons, but it'll take a year or half for a new player to get the idol nature for his pokemons, there you'll lose the balance of fairity.
The discussion of Methods to introduce Natures is split peoples in 2 part. It's hard to make an individual to agree with another in this topic.

I would suggest if customizable option for natures ever happens, It will be better to make it in Player dex just like Abilities, one time or pay a reasonable amount to change it again, i would suggest the same for Abilities too, if that ever happen to possible.
But if that's not gonna happening, Giving every pokemon in existence random nature is a way of declaring war. :rolleyes:

How Synchronize ability pokemon works is that it give the wild pokemon 50% chance to trace the nature of the pokemon with synchronize you're using.
For example: I'm having an adamant nature Alakazam that I use in hunting. Right now I encountered a Dratini. This Dratini has a 50% chance of being Adamant nature and 50% of being a Random nature.
I like this hunting method so much personally, it's creative. It'll surely effect/ change hunting completely. I've not much to say here, It's definitely one of the things i want to see in PWO.

Skipping 6th and 7th point
Daily prize System is something i always wanted to happen, for new player base, daily missions or daily login gifts will give them motivation and keep them engaged with the game, We are not asking for huge presents, but minimal prizes won't hurt. (You don't need me to suggest prizes, do you?)

And in the main course we have PVP topic, Fadoka already mentioned everything needed in game to implement. I can't think of any guy who love PVP and disagree with these.

Much love for suggesting and to realise the community how much things PWO need to improve to stands up.:)
Will appreciate you effort to bring these points to the community, I'm hoping These things will get implemented.
And Will also appreciate staffs who work on Sevii project.
<3
 

Prof.Rygar

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Scizor Base is 500, not 600. Only Mega Scizor has 600, so relatively invalid. Same goes for Houndoom, only it's Mega has 600.
 

Fadoka

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Scizor Base is 500, not 600. Only Mega Scizor has 600, so relatively invalid. Same goes for Houndoom, only it's Mega has 600.
Indeed they are put in the same category of 600s because their mega evolutions reach 600 base. And I believe mega evolution are already discussed in the plans of staff before
 

Prof.Rygar

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I've brought up the fact that certain pokemon are needed in PvP due to their rare typing/ abilities/ movesets. Like Jirachi. And even pointed out that they're not stronger than pokemon already in game (Dragonite/ Tyranitar for examples).

But, something we have to keep in mind when talking about their IVs (be it randomized or set), and "One Per Player", in regards to PvP is that most of the 600 bst Legendaries have 100 on each stat.

The point being, the "Base 100 Speed" category is extremely competitive. There are lots of those, (Staraptor, Charizard, Ninetails, Tentacruel, Typhlosion, Miltank, Slaking, Flygon, Salamence, for instance)

SO, having them "SET" at let's say "20", means they'll be out-sped by, iirc, base 95 pokes that have max speed.

SO, personally, I'd like the option to have the IVs Random, but I can trade in the pokemon during events using Event Coins and hope the next one they give me of that species has better stats. I'd still only have 1, but at least there would be an option for improvement and a chance at having it more competitive.
 

Fadoka

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I've brought up the fact that certain pokemon are needed in PvP due to their rare typing/ abilities/ movesets. Like Jirachi. And even pointed out that they're not stronger than pokemon already in game (Dragonite/ Tyranitar for examples).

But, something we have to keep in mind when talking about their IVs (be it randomized or set), and "One Per Player", in regards to PvP is that most of the 600 bst Legendaries have 100 on each stat.

The point being, the "Base 100 Speed" category is extremely competitive. There are lots of those, (Staraptor, Charizard, Ninetails, Tentacruel, Typhlosion, Miltank, Slaking, Flygon, Salamence, for instance)

SO, having them "SET" at let's say "20", means they'll be out-sped by, iirc, base 95 pokes that have max speed.

SO, personally, I'd like the option to have the IVs Random, but I can trade in the pokemon during events using Event Coins and hope the next one they give me of that species has better stats. I'd still only have 1, but at least there would be an option for improvement and a chance at having it more competitive.
The competitive part of 600 base fighting one another is clear and fair. The other part of them being all 20 IVs was just an example.
 
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Prof.Rygar

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The competitive part of 600 base fighting one another is cleae and fair. The other part of them being tradable isn't a good sign or else the economy will have monopoly instead of equity then.

I feel like you missed the entire point of what I said, so I guess I wasn't clear enough.

EDIT: In regards to base 100 Speed Legendaries:

If the IVs are set at 20 for all stats, they're going to get outsped by base 95 speed pokemon that have max speed, and that means any base 100 speed would likewise outspeed them, and thus ruins part of the PvP usefulness of them. Since it's relatively obvious that the Legendary Pokemon we get from Events would be "Trade Locked", and untradeable, they have no value other than PvP.

And what I said about "trading in", I meant an Event NPC that we can use Event Coins on to re-roll the IVs of a pokemon of our choice so we're not permanently stuck with a useless pokemon we're only allowed 1 of.
 

Fadoka

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I feel like you missed the entire point of what I said, so I guess I wasn't clear enough.

EDIT: In regards to base 100 Speed Legendaries:

If the IVs are set at 20 for all stats, they're going to get outsped by base 95 speed pokemon that have max speed, and that means any base 100 speed would likewise outspeed them, and thus ruins part of the PvP usefulness of them. Since it's relatively obvious that the Legendary Pokemon we get from Events would be "Trade Locked", and untradeable, they have no value other than PvP.

And what I said about "trading in", I meant an Event NPC that we can use Event Coins on to re-roll the IVs of a pokemon of our choice so we're not permanently stuck with a useless pokemon we're only allowed 1 of.
Ye all agreed. Also comment was edited after.
 

Isguros

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I have to give it to you: you've made some good points, and some fair points as well; but on one point you really took some creative liberties to get your point across: the viable legendary Pokemon.

You start of strong by only using a Pokemon's base stat total to determine their strength; completely neglecting the stat distribution, abilities, or move pools. And you use that to establish a connection between some of the most powerful and versatile legendary Pokemon throughout history like Landorus and Mew, and the "very common" mega evolved and psuedo-legendary Pokemon, who aren't really as common as you make them out to be, that are already available in this game.
Even the damage calcs are a bit too optimistically viewed through rose-tinted glasses. Sure, Dragonite is as big of a threat to a Heatran as Swinub is, since they're both able to OHKO it if said Heatran doesn't hold an Air Balloon, which is a somewhat common item for it, that completely negates that damage. So, I ain't saying that Heatran is a flawless Pokemon, but even considering this enormous weakness, and the fact that half the teams in that format ran weather teams that heavily impacted its prowess in a negative way; it was still one of the most used Pokemon in Gen5 (as well as Gen4 and Gen6).
The other calcs aren't free from issues either. Yes, Both Choice Specs Hydreigon and Life Orb Houndoom have a chance to OHKO all those Pokemon by using the strongest stab super-effective move at their disposal, unless those Pokemon are defensively invested (like most of them are used for doing); then it's impossible. They also all naturally outspeed those two Pokemon and are able to either OHKO them themselves or deal a bunch of damage to them by U-Turning.
 

Fadoka

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I have to give it to you: you've made some good points, and some fair points as well; but on one point you really took some creative liberties to get your point across: the viable legendary Pokemon.

You start of strong by only using a Pokemon's base stat total to determine their strength; completely neglecting the stat distribution, abilities, or move pools. And you use that to establish a connection between some of the most powerful and versatile legendary Pokemon throughout history like Landorus and Mew, and the "very common" mega evolved and psuedo-legendary Pokemon, who aren't really as common as you make them out to be, that are already available in this game.
Even the damage calcs are a bit too optimistically viewed through rose-tinted glasses. Sure, Dragonite is as big of a threat to a Heatran as Swinub is, since they're both able to OHKO it if said Heatran doesn't hold an Air Balloon, which is a somewhat common item for it, that completely negates that damage. So, I ain't saying that Heatran is a flawless Pokemon, but even considering this enormous weakness, and the fact that half the teams in that format ran weather teams that heavily impacted its prowess in a negative way; it was still one of the most used Pokemon in Gen5 (as well as Gen4 and Gen6).
The other calcs aren't free from issues either. Yes, Both Choice Specs Hydreigon and Life Orb Houndoom have a chance to OHKO all those Pokemon by using the strongest stab super-effective move at their disposal, unless those Pokemon are defensively invested (like most of them are used for doing); then it's impossible. They also all naturally outspeed those two Pokemon and are able to either OHKO them themselves or deal a bunch of damage to them by U-Turning.
I agree and also mentioned that all of given examples are just to prove that such pokemon are adding to the game and PvP meta without harming it.
 

Cleveland

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And what I said about "trading in", I meant an Event NPC that we can use Event Coins on to re-roll the IVs of a pokemon of our choice so we're not permanently stuck with a useless pokemon we're only allowed 1 of.
I really like this idea, it also provides an opportunity for the player to keep trying for a shiny. It would be kind of similar to the egg system in that sense.

However, one issue I can foresee with this overall proposal for acquiring legendaries is that it will be yet another way for players to abuse with alts. They will just keep creating alts to run to the event and get the IVs (or shiny) that they want, and then make that their main account moving forward. So in that sense, limiting it to only 1 per account might actually be worse for the playerbase overall because the alt abusers will still have unlimited amounts. Therefore, I think it'd be best to just make it unlimited for everyone. Otherwise the alt abusers just gain even more of an advantage.

Another way to curb this abuse, and I think @Fadoka touched on it in his writeup, is to make the legendary poke catchable after completing the quest. That way you aren't just handed a Mew after spending 30 minutes speedrunning a quest. You then have to go hunt it at T5 rarity. This way it's really no different than any other event poke other than it could be locked behind a quest before being catchable.

IMO doing it this way would also make it less essential that they be untradeable.

Overall, great write up Fado, I agree with pretty much all the overall points. But I did want to call out this potential issue with how the legendaries would be released/restricted. There's already far too many players that farm event items for pd. How many more would risk it all for additional chances at a shiny Mew? Hope for the best, expect the worst...
 

Fadoka

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I have to give it to you: you've made some good points, and some fair points as well; but on one point you really took some creative liberties to get your point across: the viable legendary Pokemon.

You start of strong by only using a Pokemon's base stat total to determine their strength; completely neglecting the stat distribution, abilities, or move pools. And you use that to establish a connection between some of the most powerful and versatile legendary Pokemon throughout history like Landorus and Mew, and the "very common" mega evolved and psuedo-legendary Pokemon, who aren't really as common as you make them out to be, that are already available in this game.
Even the damage calcs are a bit too optimistically viewed through rose-tinted glasses. Sure, Dragonite is as big of a threat to a Heatran as Swinub is, since they're both able to OHKO it if said Heatran doesn't hold an Air Balloon, which is a somewhat common item for it, that completely negates that damage. So, I ain't saying that Heatran is a flawless Pokemon, but even considering this enormous weakness, and the fact that half the teams in that format ran weather teams that heavily impacted its prowess in a negative way; it was still one of the most used Pokemon in Gen5 (as well as Gen4 and Gen6).
The other calcs aren't free from issues either. Yes, Both Choice Specs Hydreigon and Life Orb Houndoom have a chance to OHKO all those Pokemon by using the strongest stab super-effective move at their disposal, unless those Pokemon are defensively invested (like most of them are used for doing); then it's impossible. They also all naturally outspeed those two Pokemon and are able to either OHKO them themselves or deal a bunch of damage to them by U-Turning.
We can get swimming pools with suicunes don't worry.
 

The-Joker

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I agree with virtually all about your topic, I just want to add some points to system pvp, the game needs show a count of turns for reflect, light screen and weathers, would be like a visual feedback during the battles
 

Fadoka

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I agree with virtually all about your topic, I just want to add some points to system pvp, the game needs show a count of turns for reflect, light screen and weathers, would be like a visual feedback during the battles
That would be a great additiion as well. Thanks for your contribution.
 
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