Stat boosting moves.

[Tecknician]

For some time now there has been a problem with the mechanic of stat boosting moves and its abuse in a broken battle system.

For awhile I have been trying to think of a good solution that would keep them relevant yet not cause the problems they have been causing.

I propose that moves that only affect stat stages to have their accuracy reduced. For one stage moves I was thinking 80% and for 2 stage moves 60%.

Thoughts?

 

[Dovee]

As much as I dislike stat boosting moves. I would say 80/60 is a bit too low.
I think 90/70 would be a bit better to start with and see how it plays out.

90 won't fail too often but it will fail often enough to matter. 70 for the 2 stage moves will put them like thunder, it will fail quite often but if it lands it can make an impact.

 

[The-Predator]

That could work since would be avoiding those infinite battles between growl vs dragon dance or so but even with that nerf some pokemon are able to spam against some other and would be hmm kinda the same but its a nice idea and it could be work better than im thinking

 

[KaiReborn]

Well seeing as most boosting moves revolve around attack and speed how about making burn and paralyzis work the same way they do on the handhelds?

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

I'm pretty opposed to this, nerfing things that shouldn't be nerfed just because a bunch of babies can't keep up with the battling strategy is pathetic to put it bluntly. I would be totally bummed if using agility (a valid strategy that is in no way overpowered) becomes a risky thing to do. The ONLY problem I see is with two pokemon: Dragonite, and Scizor. This could be fixed very promptly with the addition of three TMs... Flamethrower, Stone Edge, and Dragon pulse. There are only so many pokemon that these two can boost on, and all of them would be able to adequately defend themselves if this happened.
Here are the most common pokemon that each of these boost their attack on:

Dragonite- Arcanine (learns dragon pulse TM), Jolt (has growl, is already capable), Char (learns dragon pulse), All fighting types (almost all learn stone edge)
Scizor- Snorlax (learns flamethrower, already has screech), Metagross (people can already use Scary face, and Hammer arm), Tyranitar (has fire fang, learns flamethrower)

As you can see some of the pokemon here already have ways to prevent boosting, people are just too dense to use them. Most people use agility on metagross instead of scary face, and on ttar people use ice beam instead of fire fang. This is the real reason people don't like boosting, they can't handle it and it's their own fault.

 

[Nikola]

This is not due to mechanic, its due to players failing to adapt. The solution itself might not hurt but i feel that is only temporary. Every trainer has to find it's own way to adapt. I wouldn't be pleasing to someone who is lazy, moaning and yet not helping to themselves without even bothering to do team upgrade and adapt. There are several critical points where boosting is OP and I do agree with that but those points will remain even with lowering the accuracy of boosting moves. If someone boosted Scizoz/Steelix on your Snorlax consider that as compensation since Snorlax is able to defeat at least 3 of your Pokemon when it comes one on one battle. People are often baffled when it comes to countering Sp.Atk based Pokemon so they use 1/2 mil Snorlax to do so. If you can't accept the risk that someone will growl your Snorlax boosting Scizor on it then we have a problem here. Is the mechanic or a player the one who is not accepting the risk?

---

Second the most common sight would be Arcanine and Dragonite. Dragonite is able to boost on it yes, but it's too soon for Arcanine to be used. See Milotic, the Pokemon that always had a potential due to Ice beam and other things. The same thing with Arcanine, it can learn Outrage TM which would make Dragonite not able to boost on it. Why it's being used? Because it's 15m pokemon or because it looks cool? As I said, it too soon for Arcanine to be used. Always the full circle while for a change it would be better to advance and make several Pokemon useful seeing that people are using them despite being a sitting duck in a battle. I personally like the current system where I can think more, learn more and always progress. Doing any changes would be against original idea. People were given mostly everything on a silver plate, even the most exclusive VR Pokemon is now rare. I think people have to start to think with their own head, if you are offering them an easy path and easy way out you can't expect them to adapt next time, even worse they will ask for more. In this case they do complain while the problem is not in the game, it's in their way of thinking. Don't pamper them much. Give them something to think. Give them a tool to adapt instead of showing them how to.

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As for the topic, if it's really necessary: 85/75

 

[Merlino]

I agree with Darcia, this is due basically to difficulties of players to adapt to the new battle system (and maybe cause game lacks of some tms).
I definitely say no to this idea, but if it has to be compulsory, i propose this:
First boost: 100
Second boost: 80
Third boost: 60

 

[Mega.S]

I thik is better if each pokemon only can use bost of atak 2 times, and if firt time has 100% chance and in second only has 50%.

In the corrent sistem if you use one tauros or a snorlax one scizor can bost agillity and atak enougth to kill all you pokemons, even a charizard that is 4x resistent against bug... :S

Other option is start changing pokemons...

 

[Merlino]

Always tanked easily S scizor boosted max with Arcanine and Swampert!

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

Swampert can't tank scizor with X-scizzor if it's boosted. Arcanine can but that's a great way to have drago come in and do some damage...

 

[HOF69]

Eco and Kai have presented the easiest and most logical solutions. The most common boosting situations that make people angry are the following: Dragonite against Arcanine, Dragonite against Fighting-type Pokemon, and Scizor against Snorlax. The solutions to these problems are very simple:

- Add Flamethrower and Stone Edge TMs (Snorlax and Tauros both learn Flamethrower to prevent Scizor boosting, Fighting-type Pokemon learn Stone Edge to prevent Dragonite boosting)

- Add Outrage to Growlithe's moveset (it naturally learns it in BW2, this prevents Dragonite from boosting against it)

- Make paralysis reduce speed and burn reduce attack (becoming burned or paralyzed would negate the effects of speed and attack boosting moves)

On a side note to Eco, Dragon Pulse is not a TM in Generation 5.

Since it would help certain Pokemon like Alakazam and Espeon, I suppose adding Hidden Power TM as a Fire-type move (its type depends on IVs in the handhelds) would further help to reduce Scizor's boosting ability, but Scizor vs. Snorlax is the most common boosting scenario. I will also note that adding Stone Edge TM allows Fighting-type Pokemon to be viable once again in PWO and be used as Snorlax counters instead of relying on Scizor.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

In all honesty scizor boosting wouldn't be a big deal if Arcanine was usable without the risk of having drago boost on it, as Arcanine can tank a fully boosted scizor. Because of this preventing scizor from boosting on espeon/alakazam wouldn't be necessary, not that I would be complaining about adding Fire hidden power (maybe Ice too ). I wouldn't look at it not being in a particular generation that the game is using for TMs as a roadblock. Exceptions are always possible for a good cause.

 

[CheckeredZebra]

For this whole stat boosting deal, I'd just suggest making people unable to boost their attack/sp att stat if their speed is above 300. The same could be true of the reverse. If the person's attack is above a certain point, agility will have no effect. This should keep ANYTHING from sweeping for ANY other reason than somebody having a completely fail team.

Once other moves -such as priority moves- can be introduced, this silly limitation can be lifted.

(I actually have 0 problems with Dragonite and Scizor but get can get destroyed by meta. Perhaps its my stubborness to not use things like Zard and Arcanine, but Meteor Mash's attack stat boost is a killer and Zen Headbutt is evil with it.)

EDIT: Btw, acid spray is kind of cheap. It's literally cutting Sp. Def in half when it's supposed to be a one stage move.

 

[HOF69]

You make a good point about Arcanine Eco. I see a lot of suggestions in this topic about changing the stat boosting moves themselves and I really have to ask why? Adding certain TMs, updating movesets and make certain status ailments work are all considered steps forward towards a more complete battle system. Reducing the accuracy of boosting moves does not prevent boosting, it just makes it harder. Give Arcanine Outrage and Dragonite won't be able to use both Agility and Dragon Dance, and probably won't even beat a full HP Arcanine. Give Snorlax Flamethrower and the most Scizor can do is use one Swords Dance or Agility, not both. Changing the stat boosting moves themselves would be considered a step backward in my opinion. As a friend of mine put it, why not cure the disease instead of temporarily relieve the symptoms?

 

[The-Predator]

You make a good point about Arcanine Eco. I see a lot of suggestions in this topic about changing the stat boosting moves themselves and I really have to ask why? Adding certain TMs, updating movesets and make certain status ailments work are all considered steps forward towards a more complete battle system. Reducing the accuracy of boosting moves does not prevent boosting, it just makes it harder. Give Arcanine Outrage and Dragonite won't be able to use both Agility and Dragon Dance, and probably won't even beat a full HP Arcanine. Give Snorlax Flamethrower and the most Scizor can do is use one Swords Dance or Agility, not both. Changing the stat boosting moves themselves would be considered a step backward in my opinion. As a friend of mine put it, why not cure the disease instead of temporarily relieve the symptoms?

While tms actually would fix this, hmm we've been asking for those tms but they seem like not planning to add em atm so nerfing those moves would be at least a better option

 

[pokearcanine]

Like almost everyone in here said,we should make the game advance,not step back,so there are 4 things that can be implemented to stop boosting:

-Addiction of the TMs mentioned earlier,as the only ones who can boost atm are Drago and Scizor

-Working Status Ailments,with paralyze reducing speed by 25% and burn reducing physical attack by 50%,Badly poison doing doubled damage after each turn and so

-Priority moves:Ice shard can wreck drago and other priority moves would help with scizor also,as scizor gets to low health while boosting

-Fixing moves like Roar and Whirlwind,which is the hardest of the 4,because in the actual battling system switching is considered a "noob" move

Any of those options are better than reducing boosting moves accuracy im my opinion.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

While we're on the topic of what's OP, TMs, and what needs to be changed I'd like to bring up Solarbeam on fire pokemon. I know the staff doesn't want to nerf solarbeam because it would hurt grass-type moves, But why in the hell do fire pokemon need to be able to kill pokemon like swampert and slowbro? In the real games they wouldn't be able to get more than one of them out on these pokemon because of the charge time. I'd like to suggest Solarbeam be removed from Fire-type pokemon in favor of something like Energy ball TM. It's pretty wrong for them to be able to kill some of the water or ground/rock types that they're now able to, and it defeats the purpose of type advantage at all.

 

[pokearcanine]

While we're on the topic of what's OP, TMs, and what needs to be changed I'd like to bring up Solarbeam on fire pokemon. I know the staff doesn't want to nerf solarbeam because it would hurt grass-type moves, But why in the hell do fire pokemon need to be able to kill pokemon like swampert and slowbro? In the real games they wouldn't be able to get more than one of them out on these pokemon because of the charge time. I'd like to suggest Solarbeam be removed from Fire-type pokemon in favor of something like Energy ball TM. It's pretty wrong for them to be able to kill some of the water or ground/rock types that they're now able to, and it defeats the purpose of type advantage at all.

i kind of disagree with you in here,TMs are meant to give pokemons coverage for their natural weakness,so in future,when all TMs are implanted,it will be commom to see pokes doing like fire types are doing atm,but i agree that solarbeam is a bit overpowered when used by fire pokes,as it would take 2 turns in real games,only takes 1 in pwo,so i agree with the removal of solarbeam from fire pokes only and add energy ball to them,not nerfing solarbeam,as its as powerful as a flare blitz and a hydro pump and nerfing it would make grass pokes less used than they are atm.

 

[KaiReborn]

While we're on the topic of what's OP, TMs, and what needs to be changed I'd like to bring up Solarbeam on fire pokemon. I know the staff doesn't want to nerf solarbeam because it would hurt grass-type moves, But why in the hell do fire pokemon need to be able to kill pokemon like swampert and slowbro? In the real games they wouldn't be able to get more than one of them out on these pokemon because of the charge time. I'd like to suggest Solarbeam be removed from Fire-type pokemon in favor of something like Energy ball TM. It's pretty wrong for them to be able to kill some of the water or ground/rock types that they're now able to, and it defeats the purpose of type advantage at all.

i kind of disagree with you in here,TMs are meant to give pokemons coverage for their natural weakness,so in future,when all TMs are implanted,it will be commom to see pokes doing like fire types are doing atm,but i agree that solarbeam is a bit overpowered when used by fire pokes,as it would take 2 turns in real games,only takes 1 in pwo,so i agree with the removal of solarbeam from fire pokes only and add energy ball to them,not nerfing solarbeam,as its as powerful as a flare blitz and a hydro pump and nerfing it would make grass pokes less used than they are atm.

On the handhelds solarbeam only sees the light of day on sun teams, where it doesn't need a turn to charge. Given that I'm fine with solarbeam as it currently is in pwo.

 

[pokearcanine]

About what Eco and Hof commented of making hidden power a fire type or a ice type,i think it would be way more cooler to do just like in original games,and do the type based on ivs,the calculation itself isnt hard to do,the power could be at 60 as its fixed now in Gen VI