PvP issues and how to fix them

Merse

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I think I speak for many of us when I say that I will never accept a random PvP request ever again. There are just too many players who don't appreciate the common customs of PvP*.

The coward player is the most common type of these players. He only cares about his PvP score and his Reputation. So he makes it sure that he wins: He challenges only players with 10-20 levels under his, so his Pokemons will own his opponent under any circumstances.
The opportunist player is a subtype of the coward player but he's not a challenger, but a "challengee". He checks the battle request and as fast as he can he goes to a Pokecenter. Here he takes a team which is way stronger than the strongest Pokemon of the challenger and then he accepts the battle. Sometimes only when the challenger thinks the request was refused and he starts to train/PvP/hunt, so he is forced into a battle he doesn't even want any more, or with some Pokes weakened, or already fainted.
The maximalist switcher can't endure if he has no (type) advantage. So he keeps changing Pokemons whenever he seems to be in a disadvantage by type or status (sleep, paralysis, etc).
There is the backboneless player, who can't accept that somebody has better team, better luck or better strategy than him, so he logs out every time he's about to lose.
The backboneless scum is the most hated of every players. He is a subspecies of the backboneless player. He doesn't like to lose either, but instead of logging out, he starts to chat, move, or something else to be kept logged into the game, forcing the other player to log out instead of him, so he can keep his flawless PvP score.

How could we get rid of these opportunistic players? I have two simple ideas:
1. In the case of logging out from a PvP, the other party should score a victory and get the Reputation points.
2. When you get a challenge, instead of just the highest level Pokemon in the challenger's party, you should see the full info about the player. I mean everything you get with the /info command: Top level, rep, PvP statistics, Game time. Like this you can immediately see if you're facing a real challenger or only an opportunistic player.

*The common rules of PvP battle (keep in mind that certain communities may have different rules)
Mandatory rules:

- You may not log out or otherwise run form a battle. Accept your loss with dignity. If you logged out for a reason beyond your responsibility, look for your opponent and apologize.
- You may change Pokemons only when they faint. You may not change Pokemons even if you're in a clear temporary disadvantage.
- You may not send more than one challenge to the same player at the same time. If he doesn't want to battle, you must leave him alone.
Customary rules: (they apply, except if both parties agreed otherwise)
- You may not use instant KO moves (Sheer Cold, Horn Drill, Guillotine etc.).
- You may not challenge anybody 10 levels under yours, even if the rules of PWO make it possible.
Optional rules: (they apply only if both parties agreed before the battle)
- You may not use more than one of the same Pokemon species in the same battle (e.g.: 2 Pidgeots. But you may use 1 Pidgeot and 1 Pidgeotto).
- You may not use Shiny Pokemons.
 

CoolKnightST

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Wasn't there already an note with the max level pokémon on his party when an player challenge you?

For reputation: An higher level player should just get almost no reputation from lower level players.
For example: "P1/middle lv" vs "P2/middle lv" ; if P1>10 levels higher than P2. Player 1 would only get 50% of the reputation when victory. When player 2 wins he get 50% more reputation. Players will also get an 10% bonus when win or lose when use less than 6 pokémon. For example same case but player 1 has 4 pokémon when player 2 has 6. So if player 1 wins: reputation-(50%-20%). So Player 1 get 70% of his reputation.
 

Saric

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If people were awarded with reputation and a win from disconnected players, this would be far too easy to abuse. Two friends could do it and just farm up rep and wins and abuse the system. Otherwise I don't have much of a problem with the others.
 

psylensse

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Can there be a timer for battles as well as a timer for general inactivity? That way the 5th type that Merse has indicated can't simply do nothing in battle. I would think 1 minute per move is more than sufficient.
I want to say I'm also in favor of treating a log out, regardless of the reason, as a loss. In other online PvP games, this seems to be the trend, and I would guess more log offs occur deliberately than accidentally. It's tough, but honestly the penalty is not that severe. This might also alleviate the concern of abuse, since one person would be losing reputation, so it's not just a gain.
Finally, I want to say that unless I'm mistaken, there's no clear indication or posting of the rules of PvP. I had no idea switching was frowned up until recently (granted, I don't battle much...). I'm still baffled why this is the case. I see switching as strategic, whereas the inability to do so leaves certain rounds to be little more than games of "War" (card game reference), especially round 1. I'd be fine with some sort of penalty - switching counts as a move, and so your opponent can attack your switched pokemon for free, something like that.

EDIT: just had to say (without making a separate thread) RFR's post below cracked me up.
 

risefromruins

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It is not "Pokemons". Pokemon is the plural word for Pokemon.

Example: Look at all of the pokemon over there!
 

Pansy

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risefromruins said:
It is not "Pokemons". Pokemon is the plural word for Pokemon.

Example: Look at all of the pokemon over there!

Lighten up Rise :p

Not sure if a timer for battles would work...
 

Merse

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Thanks rise to carefully looking for an error in my post :D
Anyway, the point is that the players should get more instant information about the player who challenges them, and they also should not be penalized because of those who abuse the system by disconnecting or forcing them to disconnect.
 

PoeticSilence

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I'd like to point out that... Yes on PWO, switching is currently frowned upon... But in Pokemon Battles, REAL COMPETETIVE Matches, for Nintendo over WiFi... Switching is actually apart of the battle. On PWO, I understand that moves are broken, Pokemon are broken, and that when you switch at certain times, it glitches the battle... Once PWO fixes all the bugs though, I'd like to see switching come back into play.
 

Jinji

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Hear hear, Silence! (That sentence wouldn't make any sense if that wasn't a name...)
 

Jinji

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You know, I never liked pansies. I think flowers of that nature deserve to be burned...
 

Pansy

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Jinji said:
Hear hear, Silence! (That sentence wouldn't make any sense if that wasn't a name...)


I've missed you to Jinji <3
 

Pansy

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Pansy said:
Jinji said:
Hear hear, Silence! (That sentence wouldn't make any sense if that wasn't a name...)


I've missed you to Jinji <3

Touche!

Merse said:
Thanks rise to carefully looking for an error in my post :D
Anyway, the point is that the players should get more instant information about the player who challenges them, and they also should not be penalized because of those who abuse the system by disconnecting or forcing them to disconnect.

No they shouldn't have to put up with the players who disconnect and such, but there are always going to be players who will try and get around it. Even showing information, some people may be daring enough accept the battle and still have to put up with it. It's going to be an issue for quite some time.
 

psylensse

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what if entering into a pokemon center nullifies the battle request for either party?

and also, to address another of Merse's points, how about the ability to cancel a previously submitted request?
 

Merse

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Pansy said:
No they shouldn't have to put up with the players who disconnect and such, but there are always going to be players who will try and get around it. Even showing information, some people may be daring enough accept the battle and still have to put up with it. It's going to be an issue for quite some time.
If they are daring to accept the challenge of a player 20 levels over theirs, or a player who has more disconnects than victories, it's their problem. But they should have the possibility to be warned if they are challenged by such a player.
 
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