Prove a negative

[Boora]

Its impossible, and it bothers me that Some Gm that i wont name cause its pointless asking people to prove a negative in the ban appeals when they aren't sure if the ban was justified
example:
"Unless you can actually prove that the video provided by (gms name) is wrong with your own evidence (Not your friends saying you're innocent) the ban may be overturned.
Until that point in time, I agree with the ban in place."

he asks him to prove that a video he has no access to is wrong, (a thing that is impossible to do unless he's psychic)
and ontop of that tells him that if he do it he'll be unbanned which means he isn't sure of the ban himself
i'm not one to tel you how to do your job, and i dont know if this guy actually hacked or not, all i'm saying is, you should really give him a fair chance
last time it happen with the same gm, 2 or 3 gm's "agreed" with the ban in place and then he said ops i might've been mistaken,
which is another thing that isn't right with me, don't give people the option to let a diff gm see the evidence if you know that they'll agree with you..
first show the other gm's the video and only then decide together if the guy should be banned this way you wont have to cover for your fella gm
and the ban actually be justified at least 80% more then it is today.


p.s
i do not know the dude that i based the example on, this is just happen too many times and i felt like i had to say something

 

[Algiers]

Yeah, that is true, there is literally zero evidence you can provide in your own defense. Personally, I'm of the philosophy that it's better to let a few botters get away with questionable cases than ban one innocent player, but unless you can convince the admins of that, there will be collateral damage. (Although most cases are quite obvious, just look at some videos of people botting that are provided by regular players.) I do know of one mistaken ban that was overturned after the evidence was re-reviewed two times and the word "sorry" didn't even appear in the post from the admin who unbanned the account! It is true, as a regular player, you DO have something to fear. In the defense of the GMs, they are humans, and thus prone to human error, especially when they have to deal with a lot of morons and their imaginary siblings.

 

[Puar]

In regards to your comment about letting a few botters go to protect one fair player. First off there are way more people banned on a day to day basis than what shows in the ban appeals section. There have been days where 50+ accounts were banned and not one ban appeal. Just making a ban appeal doesnt mean you are innocent. In regards to your comments about our evidence, you are in no position to just the validity or the decision process of our evidence because to be frank you have no idea what tools we use to catch cheaters. You have likely never seen an evidence video and if you knew all the tools at our disposal you would agree that it should remain secret and that there is a LOW LOW LOW chance for fair players to slip through the cracks.

 

[OGPokemaster]

im not staff but tbh i can see the difficulty they face when banning ppl, and i can understand why staff dont want to show the evidence they collected, botters might take advantage of knowing the tools staff use to find them and try to find away around them. imo if a few ppl get banned for being suspected of botting then its most likely tht staff have indefinite proof, and like puar said they ban tons of ppl every day and just because u make a appeal doesnt mean your not guilty, for some reason ppl think the staff are just out to get them, when in reality there just doing there jobs yea sure itd be nice if they apologized if they banned a wrong person but its not hard to see where they can make a mistake, there humans not machines therefore there just as imperfect as any1 else, id rather a person suspected of botting get banned (until proven innocent) then to let even a single botter get away..

in the end i just wwant to say if u dont want to be suspected of botting then dont act like one, yea i know its hard to not act like one, but talking in chats, maybe if ur gunna hunt in a spot for a prolonged period of time take a ss every 30 mins or something just so tht if u do get banned u have even a sliver of proof to show u where actively doing the moving not a program, yea its a hassle but id much rather take 5 mins to make a ss then spend weeks trying to get unbanned for somethin i didnt do

 

[Boora]

I dont want nor asked for staff to post there evidence the closest i came to it was asking them to show another staff member before banning just to make sure they got it right and not to do it after when the other staff member feels like he has to go with his fella, (it happens knowningly or not)
you guys seems to miss my post and answer to the guy that commented after me.
all i want is for gms that aren't sure at 100% of there ban to ask another staff member to look at it before banning (mainly it happens with speedhackers if they're not obvious) not after, cause then they just say "i agree with the ban in place" regardless of what they really think, which was proven more then once, (once even 2-3 gm's said that in one post and the gm who banned said he made a mistake)
this way they wont have to ask banned people to do the impossible as in "prove they didn't hack" -.-"

 

[Merse]

In what can you be 100% sure? Maybe in the fact that the Sun rises tomorrow morning too, but not even in that one, as some astronomical cataclysm coudl destroy the whole solar system by tomorrow.
I think in 99.9% of the bans, you may be certain that they banned actual botters. And we also saw cases when they unbanned innocent players. I don't think there would be players who were banned and who were inocent. If there are any players at all.

 

[Boora]

Merse, shut the hell up and stop sticking your nose in every topic, and couldn't tell you this before, but stop posting in the community watch aswell,
now to answer your Highly ignorant and stupid comment, That's why i said that it'll be better to consult another staff member if they're not sure that the player in question is 100% guilty, like you Stated yourself, how many players got unbaned ? Alot, well most of them shouldn't have been banned in the first place, if another gm were to check the evidence before banning, and i'm sure you wouln't say that if you're the one banned by mistake and the gm's will stick together saying you did hack when you didn't and ask you to prove that you didn't hack , and just to make a point i wasn't talking about botters, but Speedhackers, like i stated, but hell why read right ? lets just post and get +1 on your posts.
sometimes its VERY hard to tell if the guy is speedhacking or not as i'm sure staff is aware off, so from a simple request you had to post a suck up comment to the staff and piss me off, Thanks.

 

[Rizzee]

It's very simple why GMs and Admins haven't and will never release the methods and tools they use for catching botters. Because then the botters will know how to circumvent getting banned. What would people rather happen... GM's make the odd mistake rarely once in awhile, or have botters know how the system works and theremore making catching them harder. I know which I'd prefer and it's not the first one.

 

[Merse]

Merse, shut the hell up and stop sticking your nose in every topic, and couldn't tell you this before, but stop posting in the community watch aswell,
now to answer your Highly ignorant and stupid comment, That's why i said that it'll be better to consult another staff member if they're not sure that the player in question is 100% guilty, like you Stated yourself, how many players got unbaned ? Alot, well most of them shouldn't have been banned in the first place, if another gm were to check the evidence before banning, and i'm sure you wouln't say that if you're the one banned by mistake and the gm's will stick together saying you did hack when you didn't and ask you to prove that you didn't hack , and just to make a point i wasn't talking about botters, but Speedhackers, like i stated, but hell why read right ? lets just post and get +1 on your posts.
sometimes its VERY hard to tell if the guy is speedhacking or not as i'm sure staff is aware off, so from a simple request you had to post a suck up comment to the staff and piss me off, Thanks.

Ok, buddy!
1) This is a public forum, meaning anyone who sees fits may post in any topic.
2) Don't go personal just because someone doesn't agree with you. It is obvious that you're backing someone who was caught cheating, but don't blow it off on me that he was stupid enough to cheat.
3) Why should I stop posting in the community watch? Should I just close my eyes and let others botting, speedhacking, money hacking etc? You have some very bizarre ideas.
4) Catching a botter or speedhacker is not as hard as you think. Even you can do that if you watch someone and you know what you have to pay attention to. Especially if you're a staffmember and you ahve access to functions unavailable for regular players. It is no wonder that 99.9% of the ban appeals are denied, because - be strong man - they were all just and right.
5) Just because your friend or alt was caught, you shouldn't go offensive on GMs either. You make some pretty nasty accusations here without any evidence. Do you have any evidence that they banned innocent players? If you do, why didn't you post them int he appropriate ban appeal to support the case? If you don't have anything, why do you make such accusations without any solid proof?!
6) You should grow up and realize that just because someone states that he's innocent, that doesn't mean he really is.

 

[HitmonFonty]

If the GMs were arrogant enough to think that with 'double checking' their evidence they would get it right 100% of the time we wouldn't need a Ban Appeals section at all. I have seen GMs disagree with evidence before, and the original GM retract their verdict after Ban Appeal.

It seems like you are expecting perfection on the one hand, and accusing GMs of bias in checking other GMs evidence on the other. Be thankful there is an active Ban Appeal process, and have a bit more trust in the GMs to do their jobs, which not only includes compiling their own evidence carefully- and no doubt double checking it before banning- but also includes checking other GMs evidence when asked to do so.

I can understand that not being able to see the evidence is hard and leaves GMs open for accusations of corruption etc. But the reasons for the evidence are good ones and being answerable to your peers is an effective way of ensuring good and honest work. If PWO mistakenly puts on a 'bad' GM they would soon be caught out by the honest ones.... Unless you're suggesting that the dishonesty comes from the top and infests all the GMs in which case no answer here would satisfy you.

No justice system is ever 100%. It depends on interpretation of the evidence and the people who enforce it to have the right intentions. And I don't think that any of our GMs would hesitate to reverse a decision they considered doubtful after a fresh look at it. That's because the people chosen for these positions are chosen very carefully.

Many people complain about the GMs and accuse them of bias and stupid decisions etc. It's what you would expect of people who have been caught cheating right? But also if you're innocent you might act the same way too. "Proving a negative" as you put it, may not be the ideal in this situation, but I have seen nobody offer a better approach.

What you are asking for is a GM partner situation. Nobody gets banned unless two GMs agree. Most GMs are online on their own so this would mean a whole new 'inbox' situation to take the time of the GMs. Right now they have to moderate the chatroom, find and compile evidence before banning, and keep up with Ban Appeals and Community Watch posts on the forums.

You are suggesting a whole new process to add to that (and whatever else they have to do not listed) which could only slow down the process of removing cheaters from the game for very little gain, especially as I cannot agree with you that GMs are dropping the ball every time they check another GMs evidence. I believe they would all be reading through the Ban Appeal and taking that into account while they examine the evidence closely.

Mistakes may and probably will happen over time, but they are not the norm.

 

[Chocobo7]

all i want is for gms that aren't sure at 100% of there ban to ask another staff member to look at it before banning (mainly it happens with speedhackers if they're not obvious) not after, cause then they just say "i agree with the ban in place" regardless of what they really think, which was proven more then once, (once even 2-3 gm's said that in one post and the gm who banned said he made a mistake)
this way they wont have to ask banned people to do the impossible as in "prove they didn't hack" -.-"

Firstly your saying that its impossible to show evidence to disprove a ban, yet when you talk of this case (if I am not muistaken) then it is one that the person appealing did infact show us what they were doing and as such was able to show us why they were not botting, which would be quite the contrary to your original point. Its also a one in a thousand case, if you look into Ban Appeals and see how few people get the original ban overturned does it not make you think that maybe, just maybe we actually do wait until we have what we believe to be concrete proof before banning? Its not a decision that we take lightly.

Then you go on to imply that when GMs are asked to look into a ban appeal by another GM, that they don't look at the original GMs evidence and just blidnly agree with them. That is an outright lie and if any GM did do that then they would not hold that position for very long.

Merse, shut the hell up and stop sticking your nose in every topic, and couldn't tell you this before, but stop posting in the community watch aswell,

Merse has every right to post in this topic it is in the public forums, if you don't want people posting here then don't make a topic where they can.

now to answer your Highly ignorant and stupid comment, That's why i said that it'll be better to consult another staff member if they're not sure that the player in question is 100% guilty, like you Stated yourself, how many players got unbaned ? Alot, well most of them shouldn't have been banned in the first place,

As is stated before very few people actually get unbanned, I don't know where you get this 'a lot' from as I know we've had numerous topics in the past where people have complained about so few people being unbanned.

I feel Fonty has covered anything else I might have needed to say quite well so I shall leave it at that.

 

[youkaiwolf]

what the is botting and speedhaking anyway and how do i make sure that i have prof i don't do either cuz i do tend to stay in one place hunting alot

 

[TheWyatt2012]

what the is botting and speedhaking anyway and how do i make sure that i have prof i don't do either cuz i do tend to stay in one place hunting alot

Speedhacking is when you're going incredibly fast, moreso than what the game allows for; typically faster than the bike. Speedhacking goes hand in hand with botting. You'd need video evidence to prove it, though it's easier to catch botters that aren't speedhacking with the tools and resources that staff has. Botting can be also when you're moving in a distinct pattern and you're not actually playing the game. Easiest way to determine if someone is doing this is by private messaging the play; if they don't respond and they're still battling it usually means they're botting.

 

[Boora]

Fonty,
i said reduce the chance for a mistake not 100%, you said that.

i'm not expecting anything, you're the one getting defensive all i asked is for staff to take a second look before banning someone they UNSURE of being guilty
and i'm not blaming anyone, you said that. all i did was imply it so incase i was right the staff member will see it and stop, there's a reason i haven't used any names, i dont wanna start something that might be a stupid mistake and ruins a good gm's name, i highly respect the staff and the job they're doing, i just believe that some questions has to be asked.
and i'm suggestion this process just for bans that the staff is Unsure off, which isn't much i hope, is it ? .
so i doubt it'll slow down anyone, most bans are hands down bottters which kind of make it obvious, and full on speedhackers the same, but for the extreamly small portion of the bans they're unsure off, make a new forum stick it there, let a diff gm see it
choco,
first of all, thanks for being honest,, most i already answered Fonty, but for the example you put,
i never said its impossible to show evidence that you're innocent, i said its impossible to prove it ,
a guy that gets banned usauly give you stories from here to lalaland and sometimes videos, doesn't mean he didn't do it, just means he's smart.
i hope you understand my point of view

and for merse, maybe it was a bit over the top, i'd apologize , but
1) i never said you can't i said dont stick your nose to EVERY topic and i'l add if you dont have anything usefull to say.
2) if you have read the topic actually before posting and understood it, you wouldn't say this. you blindly agree that if someone gets banned he's guilty a thing that even staff member wont say.
3) i said postng not making thread. its not allowed to post there unless you made the thread yourself. and you do it ALOT.
4) exactly. most bans are easy, but this thread is about bans that aren't so easy, so again READ first. i hope now you understand why i snapped at you.
5) this makes me wanna snap at you even more, i already stated i have no clue who this guy is nor i was banned, i believe some questions has to be asked,
and staff memebrs are doing a great job i always said that and i highly respect each and everyone of them, but sometimes they make mistakes and its for us to set them straight, maybe its weird to you, but i see gm's as any other people and will speak to them as such, its not my fault if you see them as gods that can't make a mistake.
6) you should grow up and understand that not everything is black and white, and sometimes HE IS innocent. yes rarely, hell 1 in a 1000, but its still 1 person that spent countless hours hunting and playing and making friends, and im here to stand up for him.
So again, i'l apologize for being rude to you, and its true , not my place to tell you not to post, but PLEASE MAN, READ THE BLOODY POST and only then comment, and if you dont have anything usefull or relevant to say, just dont.

 

[Pastor-Of-Muppets]

So you are asking staff to do something they already do. Asking them not to ban before taking in all evidence? Im not gonna talk about how they have methods that are not available nor should be shown to the public because well thats been driven home already. Heres the cool thing: a ban can be reversed. Sometimes they ban someone before they can transfer pokemon onto another account of their or transfer them to a guild bank of sorts like what was done recently.
What goes on behind closed doors so to speak is nothing of our concern. It really shouldn't be.
If he needs to grow up I believe you should as well. Everyone has a right to post in this thread just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they shouldn't post.

The tools GMs use I imagine can do much to look at what goes on. The staff have been players too and realize the work that goes into an account, the hours toiling to get said shiny and such. They have all been put in that position to hunt especially with most of the GMs having played back when it was more challenging. So with that said do you really think they would just blindly ban without reason? I think not.

To sum it up a ban can be reversed. I really think this topic is useless because unless you are a past GM with knowledge about how they have banned innocents and are asking them to stop what point is this discussion. They are doing exactly what you are asking for. Double checking. If part of that is to ban before Player A's pokemon can be transfered from the scammers account, thats stops Player A from having his pokemon being traded to Player B's who paid in pokedollars which are not transferable so in this situation. In this example Player A lost a pokemon. So if the staff banned the scammer before the trade to Player B's account then this is a positive outcome, except for the scammer ofcourse.

Well enough of my run on sentences and comma splices. Just my opinion here.

 

[Merse]

1) I only comment on a topic if I have something useful to say.
2) I still say you're just backing him up for some weird reason. I don't know why, but you're accusing GMs vehemently with extremely serious charges.
3) I don't think it is your job to tell me where or what or when to or not to post. And to be hones, I don't care much about your opinion. If I post something, I do it because I think I have something relevant to add, unlike some other players I wont name here. If you don't agree with me that doesn't mean you can start swearing at me.
4) Did you ever hear that the guilty cries the loudest that he's innocent? I can assure that the GMs are not amateurs, if they ban a guy, he's 99.9% guilty. Mabye you shouldn't defend this guy so vehemently and listen to REASON.
5) So his not your friend, nor your alt. Then you're make serious accusations without proof because...? Are you a troll, or you just have to create a mess wherever you go? Or why else on Earth would you write things like you did above?
6) Didn't you realize yet that if he is innocent he will be unbanned? That's why ban appeals for. But just writing a ban appeal doesn't mean they are innocent. Even well-known hackers write ban appeals. Hacking is relatively easy to be caught but the hackers think they still can outsmart the staff by making ban appeals and using various reasons why they didn't use hack. If you read ban appeals the "my little brother", "my friend", "i had lag", "I didn't see the PM" stories must be familiar with you. I don't say that every one of them is guilty, but those who are innocent surprisingly always seem to be able to prove their innocence. Don't let that fake ban appeals fool you

 

[Boora]

1)everything you said so far just goes to show you didn't understand the topic at ALL.
2) i didn't even name the person, and for all i know he's an hacker, and i dont really care, it was an EXAMPLE, and i'm not accusing anyone, did you see a name in the topic ? the fact that you're obviously familiar with the topic doesn't mean everyone are
3) i've never told you not to post for the 3rd time, i said dont stick your nose into every bloody topic to up your post count, your first reply was ignorant and had almost nothing to do with the actual post, you gave an horribly example and tons of assumptions
4) this is getting old, Again i dont defend the guy, i dont ever know or care about the guy, my main post was what they asked of him, but you're TOO GOD DAM STUPID to understand it, get it in your little brain, I WASN"T protectng the guy, i wasn't accusing any gm's, ALL i did was to suggest to the staff to take a second look before banning
and yes the staff isn't amatuers and AGAIN if you would've read or paid any attention you'd see i already said that, but everyone make mistakes, and that little 0.01% of yours gets screwed because of that.
5) for the what, 5th time ? not my alt, not my friend, no accusations, if they were i'd mention a name dont you think ? . i Gave Example Based on things i saw,
yes i did see a topic where 2-3 gms agreed with the ban and it was lifted anyway, so i Implied just in case i was right ,(which i dont think i am hence no names) he'll see it and stop, your problem is , you're a bloody child you hold GM's as gods, they're good people, but People , and people makes mistakes, i never blamed or accused anyone,
but again you NEVER PAID A BLOODY Atention to the post in the first place, hence why i raged at you , i dont mind people speaking there mind , even if they're not on my side, which fonty,and choco did, but atleast they were on topic and actually helped me to understand, but what you do is
"no gms gods gms no mistakes u noob its ur alt u accuse " like a bloody child.
6) "Didn't you realize yet that if he is innocent he will be unbanned? " this comment alone shows that you didn't understand anything i said.
my main point is that mistakes happen. what if all these "fake ban appeals" some of them are actually real and a staff member made a mistake ? never thoguht of that have you, news buddy, YES they can make a mistake,
i hope when you read this topic it'll sink in instead of commenting again with baseless accusations that i'm this dude, or that i accuse Gm's.

Pastor, you're 100% right, but i meant speedhackers that aren't so obvious
people with like 500+hours get banned for speedhacking sometimes, and it a matter of 1 second (takes 3 to run,so if its under it he's hacking)
but sometimes its a lag, sometimes its a mistake, that's ALL im saying,
you can lock this topic, merse ruined it, like everytopic he comments on...

 

[Nikola]

-In my opinion "some" people should not be given an opportunity to even make an appeal. By saying some, I think for members which were banned before a new incident occurred. That would automatically trigger an forum ban since they were given a chance and they didn't used that chance to prove their first appeal as valid such as "I promise will not happen again on a new account" style. A section for banned members can be made on phpBB iirc. Seeing that staffs are face palming by trying to prove that someone is guilty and yet wasting new 10 posts on it doesn't look professional from both sides and eventually after few days of trying to prover something what is supposed to be valid in a moment user made an appeal they spam their topic with censored text.

-Appeal should be a request or reference to some authority for a decision, corroboration, or judgment. But every day in PWO that term is fading away and look more then general talk rather then place where someone who is suspected should be looking for a decision and judgment of a higher tribunal. If someone appealed post or two after that should be enough. Then its is up to higher tribunal to make an decision and in this case that would be GM looking into appeal together either with an Admin or another GM which is a bit experienced in a first place. There are only 2 possible ways. You are welcome or you are not welcome to use our services, nothing to debate about in ban appeal. Does it really make a sense to see 2/3 pages in ban appeal of a subject? Why would topic be locked after 10 pages and not after few posts made. I do agree that issue should be looked into from every corner and no matter what crime is committed. Same rules applies for everyone. I wonder why would you try to explain something to someone who is ban evading in a first place and yet they don't bother to read.

-I didn't mentioned above but I am going to mention it here. Those things are lacking of a privacy. That is why I am looking forward to a new playerdex. Pretty sure there is like 0,5% chance that someone who is not guilty actually can suffer of a higher form of judgment but then again it was not possible to prove opposite. That can be explained more like lacking of prof material from a convict and that would make those 0.5% to 0.3%.

-I hope you do realize that someone people can report in private by demanding their proof visible for a court/staffs eyes only. We do have a right for being private though. When someone is having a trial process, some of the profs must be visible for a convict such as video tapes and DNA materials. In this case PWO made sure to have a GM. Which is someone who you are not allowed to oppose and question into their decisions since they were taught to do the work. Either in public or behind the scenes.

-A video or an image prof can be shown sometimes if not requested otherwise from a person who wants to be private for public. Those materials can not do any harm if nothing that can put in danger their privacy is visible there. If their tools and capabilities are visible for public, chances are, that their tools and capabilities will no longer be efficient and your experience in this game may change due to being famous as game where people are allowed to cheat without having any consequences.

-Someone said something about defending friends here. It is really good and noble to defend friends in a trouble. That is in our nature and will will continue to do so no matter what outcome will be. I remember once when one friend of mine was having a trial and proofs were 100% against her. As a person on a certain position back then I spoke with my officer superior and she was given a chance to defend herself on a second degree court and results were the same. In mean time I also found out that she might be lying to me since she didn't wanted to make me to have a seconds thoughts about her. So people are often sticking with one story just to not disappoint people who might be friends with them.

 

[Boora]

-In my opinion "some" people should not be given an opportunity to even make an appeal. By saying some, I think for members which were banned before a new incident occurred. That would automatically trigger an forum ban since they were given a chance and they didn't used that chance to prove their first appeal as valid such as "I promise will not happen again on a new account" style. A section for banned members can be made on phpBB iirc. Seeing that staffs are face palming by trying to prove that someone is guilty and yet wasting new 10 posts on it doesn't look professional from both sides and eventually after few days of trying to prover something what is supposed to be valid in a moment user made an appeal they spam their topic with censored text.

-Appeal should be a request or reference to some authority for a decision, corroboration, or judgment. But every day in PWO that term is fading away and look more then general talk rather then place where someone who is suspected should be looking for a decision and judgment of a higher tribunal. If someone appealed post or two after that should be enough. Then its is up to higher tribunal to make an decision and in this case that would be GM looking into appeal together either with an Admin or another GM which is a bit experienced in a first place. There are only 2 possible ways. You are welcome or you are not welcome to use our services, nothing to debate about in ban appeal. Does it really make a sense to see 2/3 pages in ban appeal of a subject? Why would topic be locked after 10 pages and not after few posts made. I do agree that issue should be looked into from every corner and no matter what crime is committed. Same rules applies for everyone. I wonder why would you try to explain something to someone who is ban evading in a first place and yet they don't bother to read.

-I didn't mentioned above but I am going to mention it here. Those things are lacking of a privacy. That is why I am looking forward to a new playerdex. Pretty sure there is like 0,5% chance that someone who is not guilty actually can suffer of a higher form of judgment but then again it was not possible to prove opposite. That can be explained more like lacking of prof material from a convict and that would make those 0.5% to 0.3%.

-I hope you do realize that someone people can report in private by demanding their proof visible for a court/staffs eyes only. We do have a right for being private though. When someone is having a trial process, some of the profs must be visible for a convict such as video tapes and DNA materials. In this case PWO made sure to have a GM. Which is someone who you are not allowed to oppose and question into their decisions since they were taught to do the work. Either in public or behind the scenes.

-A video or an image prof can be shown sometimes if not requested otherwise from a person who wants to be private for public. Those materials can not do any harm if nothing that can put in danger their privacy is visible there. If their tools and capabilities are visible for public, chances are, that their tools and capabilities will no longer be efficient and your experience in this game may change due to being famous as game where people are allowed to cheat without having any consequences.

-Someone said something about defending friends here. It is really good and noble to defend friends in a trouble. That is in our nature and will will continue to do so no matter what outcome will be. I remember once when one friend of mine was having a trial and proofs were 100% against her. As a person on a certain position back then I spoke with my officer superior and she was given a chance to defend herself on a second degree court and results were the same. In mean time I also found out that she might be lying to me since she didn't wanted to make me to have a seconds thoughts about her. So people are ofter sticking with one story just to not disappoint people who might be friends with them.

That. i love this idea, and i do agree with everything you said.
Thanks.

 

[Merse]

i hope when you read this topic it'll sink in instead of commenting again with baseless accusations that i'm this dude, or that i accuse Gm's.

I'm amused how you developed a personal grudge on me for no apparent reason. And this phrase above just provoked me too much not to write a truly pointless post. I just couldn't resist Call me whatever you wish, I'm still amused about you
By the way, you DID accuse GMs of not doing their job properly and not every ban request and dismiss every ban appeal. In short: They abuse their power.