Event Pory Event Mapping Contest!!

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GuiiHenrique

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I'll be perfectly honest: the quest was a total excuse plot - the spawns were always the purpose of the suggestion - so I don't disagree with the notion that it could be a swarm or mini-event. That's part of the reason why I allowed (to be clear, I wrote the rules for this contest) for players submitting map entries to alter it (well, that and Klay's particular distaste for interior mapping ;)). However, I have to take exception with the "never noticed a dignified reception", since that's what this mapping contest was. I don't appreciate how long it took to announce the results, but staff have otherwise been remarkably receptive to this idea, even before I wrote it up as a suggestion. In fact, it was Pansy's encouragement when mulling over theme ideas in Discord and in game that led me to actually submit this as an event suggestion, which, if you followed everything as much as you claimed, you might have known already. I'm aware that this isn't the massive content update (Sevii, Hoenn, etc.) PWO needs, but as you correctly note, there hasn't been much going on since the three events that led off the year, so I would think this preferable over a continuation of that.

Also, your questions about "missing information" seem to suggest that you didn't even read what I wrote up for the quest outline. You ask how the player can fight the virus; I specifically noted that you fight Porygon-Z (which, while not explicitly specified, is implied to be the cause of the virus). You ask if anyone is recruiting a help team; did you gloss over the specialist NPCs you have to collect items for? Your new area question is valid, but I figured that would ultimately be for staff to handle - whether to have an event teleporter NPC, make it a Holodeck map, put the facility on an island accessed by ferry, etc. - unless otherwise specified by the mapper.

Ultimately, though, the reason this mapping contest exists came down to two things: one, I didn't make a map to accompany my suggestion originally, which, now that I know how to make maps, is a mistake I don't think I'll be making again, especially with this kind of attitude from the winner of the contest; and two, Belemuel suggested it and followed through with it, given the opportunity and the fact that there hasn't been one in a long time.

Edited to specifically address these parts:


  1. Pansy is a GM, not a GE, and that was (mostly) a joke.
  2. The event suggestion was my initiative. I came up with the idea. Pansy and others simply encouraged me to flesh it out beyond spawns, but this was not staff saying "we don't have time to come up with an event, anyone want to do it for us?" as you imply. Staff availability was part of the impetus for doing the mapping contest, but those are not a new thing, so that's a weak argument.
First of all I'm sorry for the double post but I really couldn't answer everything in a single post. Although the topics are together I believe that a single post would cause confusion or an excess of information.

Sorry, but I still don't know what the map would look like. You need to keep in mind that whoever is creating a map for a story that has already been made needs to know how the participant will get to that point. Such questions are not related to Quest, but to the Map!

Question 1: (Here, in fact, the first two questions I posted come together) ... but how can the player fight this? Going to the PokeCenter computer?
Possible answer: No, it is not going to the computer of a conventional PokeCenter, but going to the Power Plant located on the Magnet Archipelago.

Question 2:
(Here, in fact, the last two questions I posted come together) ... if it's in a new area, how do I get there? Is anyone recruiting a help team?
Possible answer: You should take the boat at any port and ask to go to Magnet Town. There, look for the engineer inside the city's PokeCenter, he accepts the help of any well-intentioned person and will guide you on how to get to the Power Plant.

With this information anyone who is trying to create a map will already have a logical path to proceed. When doing a Quest, think of a game of choices and pass this information on to those who will make the maps. Keep in mind that you can have two identical maps, but with different stories or Pokémon (in the case of PWO) simply because the player goes to an opposite location or completes a mission in a different way.

In summary: There is no way that the access information is the last information. If it is a teleportation NPC or a Holodeck Map it is still possible to create a map without many access points, however if the event is to be entered by boat you will already need a more elaborate map, in which case you will necessarily need a map area with water and a port.

When I wrote that message I already had in mind that someone would criticize or send a question related to that. The proof is in the note that I wrote asking the other participants to show their maps. As you can see Klay and I had totally different interpretations of the map entry. The conclusion I can draw is that or Klay and I are very different or we have actually made different entries due to the lack of information. Well, in that regard I believe it is the sum of the two.
Magnet Town(1).png
Magnet Island - Tbolt Archipelago(1).png
Power Plant - Magnet Unity(1).png
Magnet Cave(1).png

Well, as I said before, I have seen countless players make different types of suggestions including events, some without foundation or totally outside the reality of PWO, but others notorious with an incredible creative base, but that never stopped being a suggestion. At this point, I cannot say whether anyone is right or wrong, anyone can interpret it. But my experience in the game allows me to believe that this event was a way to combine the useful with the pleasant (even though it seems like a conspiracy theory, it is the reality). If you were encouraged by person X or person Y it will not affect anything in the Mapping Contest. At this point I believe that at the moment when the competition announcement is made at the Forum, the least that can be done is to pass all the necessary information in that same post. So in that case nobody is obliged to know what you talk to ingame people or on Discord.

Already "in the joke", well ... I WAS WRONG. For some reason, I don't know which one, I had it in my head that Belemuel was the one who said that (even though I didn't quote him specifically)... maybe because it was two posts I got confused, anyway, I don't know. So I'm SORRY Belemuel or any other GE who was offended. If I had any doubts I really should have read everything again. But the situation is no less sad, now it has gone from being a GE to being a GM! ...

Well if any other point bothers you or makes you imagine that you need a better explanation, ask ... I will be happy to try to clarify any doubts. But to be clear, everything I have said here is related to the way the game is conducted and the Mapping Contest, that is, the map. As I said earlier, I see no flaw in your quest.

Changed some things from the original context:
The quest would take place in an office specialized in cyber-criminality based in Celadon Condominiums (with all their nerd techs in a basement). These two locations would be accessible thanks to Security Man Stan.
The basement would have spawns and a PC, so players can have easy access to their newly caught trashes.

Small details explained:
- sofa to rest once the quest is done
- plant felt on the ground = part of the office where the fight would take place
- beer on a desk = don't put drinks near computers
- books = random nerdy fantasy trash because they're all nerds
- plans in the basement = Team Rocket's plans to rob clients of the S.S. Anne (boat in office and basement)


The Office PWO


tidier than my room

link to download maps
Good job Klay. I confess that I looked at those tilesets countless times and didn't notice that blue light. If I had seen it before I would certainly have used it
 

Jobey

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a game that works more like a chat between friends leaving that premise of a game created by fans made for fans.
That's exactly what it is and that's what makes it special. :)
The focus of my message is to share my discontent with the way the game is conducted. Using this Mapping Contest as an example,
Yet you had no problem participating and claiming the prizes before you complained ;)
I also have the notion that if I am not happy here I can just leave the game that probably nobody will miss me.
:cool:
 

Klay

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It's not supposed to become an event

Usually, for map contests, the reward is either token related or winning map ingame
And this time it was token related (ms + some tokens)
 

vyom12

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but i have seen people talking about swarms?
for pory event what was that how can we go to the map
 

Klay

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If there's a swarm or an event, staff will more likely make a thread about it + a tweet about it + a discord announcement post about it + a yellow login message ingame about it
This thread is/was about a mapping contest using a player's quest idea as subject
 

shodan21

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Well, from 2012 to 2015 the charges made by the players were summed up in Hoenn's addition to the game.

As of 2016 many players began to ask for anything that was new to the game, and it could even be an update on the Battle Tower that was added the previous year (and also from here the online player base started to drop dramatically).

In 2018 a topic with a sarcastic content made by a player (collector) with a high number of hours played was blocked by the simple fact that he said that the online player base was below 60 (it was considered untrue or attempted troll).

Well, I may be mistaken, but it seems to me that the problems of PWO did not arise this year or last year, but they already have a historical basis.

And let it be clear, when I say that the game is abandoned I don't mean in the literal sense of the word, I usually follow the Change Logs and I have only seen occasional updates, but that in my point of view will not add much to the game, or that is, I cannot see a promising future.

I also know that the PWO Staff has health professionals on their team and I know that one of them (the one with flippers) is responsible for holding (if not all) most events, actively participating in any news within the game. I also know that this same member had plans for the whole year (with defined months for each project) that were interrupted by humanitarian issues. And that's where in my opinion the problem is, if he can't be there, the game just stands still.

Currently I have seen PWO as a closed community and a game that works more like a chat between friends leaving that premise of a game created by fans made for fans. I particularly like to make this kind of comment open simply to look at different perspectives or points of view. I don't want to belittle anyone's work, look at it as constructive criticism and only worry if nobody ever sends you feedback about your work.

I am aware that Staff members have no obligation to maintain a non-profit game, and I also have the notion that if I am not happy here I can just leave the game that probably nobody will miss me. However, the simplicity of PWO is what holds me and it is really sad to see a game that has already given me a message from a crowded server being in the situation it is in.

Note: The message about giving up finishing a Skin was just to try to illustrate how disheartening the game is. That Skin is not an individual feat, but a project among part of my Guild members along with some close friends. At no time did we think about distributing it to other players or making it official. The result would be something closed only to its creators. I want to say here that it is discouraging for the simple fact that the only member of this "team" that remains "active" in the game is me, the other creators, as well as the vast majority of players gave up on the game simply for not seeing any sign of improvement.

The focus of my message is to share my discontent with the way the game is conducted. Using this Mapping Contest as an example, the feeling I had is that they decided to take someone's idea and put it together with someone else's map, if the result works, PERFECT! If it doesn't, well, nothing can be done ... after all, it was the players' own idea (in short, transfer of responsibilities).
As Jobey said, cool story bro. Why is this the place to discuss this? You sound like a sore winner, and I find myself hoping staff will revoke your win and bar you from participation in future contests.

Sorry, but I still don't know what the map would look like. You need to keep in mind that whoever is creating a map for a story that has already been made needs to know how the participant will get to that point. Such questions are not related to Quest, but to the Map!
There's this concept called artistic freedom. I would have assumed you understand what that means, but apparently not? If you wanted to have the entry just be a teleport (Holodeck, etc.), fine - draw the map that way. If you wanted to go the extra mile and make it accessed by boat (which you did), great! You're free to do whichever suits your fancy.

Question 1: (Here, in fact, the first two questions I posted come together) ... but how can the player fight this? Going to the PokeCenter computer?
Possible answer: No, it is not going to the computer of a conventional PokeCenter, but going to the Power Plant located on the Magnet Archipelago.

Question 2:
(Here, in fact, the last two questions I posted come together) ... if it's in a new area, how do I get there? Is anyone recruiting a help team?
Possible answer: You should take the boat at any port and ask to go to Magnet Town. There, look for the engineer inside the city's PokeCenter, he accepts the help of any well-intentioned person and will guide you on how to get to the Power Plant.
  1. A computer. Any computer. The map would have a computer, and interacting with that computer while having a Porygon caught in the facility would trigger the battle. It's not that difficult a concept - you're overthinking it. Also, the quest outline did specify that a quest NPC "leads player to room with a computer" - which should be enough to understand that it's not just a PokeCenter computer.
  2. Or, instead of making some huge massive complex town out of a simple plot suggestion, you just map the facility and the quest transport takes you there and you explore the facility. As the saying goes, "keep it simple, stupid".
With this information anyone who is trying to create a map will already have a logical path to proceed. When doing a Quest, think of a game of choices and pass this information on to those who will make the maps. Keep in mind that you can have two identical maps, but with different stories or Pokémon (in the case of PWO) simply because the player goes to an opposite location or completes a mission in a different way.

In summary: There is no way that the access information is the last information. If it is a teleportation NPC or a Holodeck Map it is still possible to create a map without many access points, however if the event is to be entered by boat you will already need a more elaborate map, in which case you will necessarily need a map area with water and a port.
Or, the decision on what way to enter the map could be made to fit the map, rather than assuming the mapper needs to know that in advance.

When I wrote that message I already had in mind that someone would criticize or send a question related to that. The proof is in the note that I wrote asking the other participants to show their maps. As you can see Klay and I had totally different interpretations of the map entry. The conclusion I can draw is that or Klay and I are very different or we have actually made different entries due to the lack of information. Well, in that regard I believe it is the sum of the two.
Or, perhaps the designer of the mapping contest explicitly allowed for such stylistic interpretations by the mappers? No, that couldn't be it...

Well, as I said before, I have seen countless players make different types of suggestions including events, some without foundation or totally outside the reality of PWO, but others notorious with an incredible creative base, but that never stopped being a suggestion. At this point, I cannot say whether anyone is right or wrong, anyone can interpret it. But my experience in the game allows me to believe that this event was a way to combine the useful with the pleasant (even though it seems like a conspiracy theory, it is the reality). If you were encouraged by person X or person Y it will not affect anything in the Mapping Contest. At this point I believe that at the moment when the competition announcement is made at the Forum, the least that can be done is to pass all the necessary information in that same post. So in that case nobody is obliged to know what you talk to ingame people or on Discord.
There was no information necessary to the mapping contest that was not included in either this thread or the original suggestion thread. My comment on that was to directly refute your claim that you have your finger on the pulse of PWO, because if you did, you'd know how this all came about, and you thus wouldn't make such a ridiculous and uninformed accusation that this was just staff foisting off responsibilities onto the players.

Already "in the joke", well ... I WAS WRONG. For some reason, I don't know which one, I had it in my head that Belemuel was the one who said that (even though I didn't quote him specifically)... maybe because it was two posts I got confused, anyway, I don't know. So I'm SORRY Belemuel or any other GE who was offended. If I had any doubts I really should have read everything again. But the situation is no less sad, now it has gone from being a GE to being a GM! ...
The situation is worse because a GM made a joke instead of a GE? What kind of nonsense is that?

Well if any other point bothers you or makes you imagine that you need a better explanation, ask ... I will be happy to try to clarify any doubts. But to be clear, everything I have said here is related to the way the game is conducted and the Mapping Contest, that is, the map. As I said earlier, I see no flaw in your quest.
You see no flaw in the quest... and then spend pages complaining about flaws in the quest, plus more pages complaining about staff.

I also have the notion that if I am not happy here I can just leave the game that probably nobody will miss me.
Maybe that's because you're barely here as it is, and when you are, all you can do is levy these stupid complaints in forum posts where they don't belong. Do you really think this behavior is a good example of a player who won a contest?
 

Jobey

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Do you really think this behavior is a good example of a player who won a contest?
This!
As I stated above, he has all these complaints about the contest yet has no issues accepting the prizes before crying about failed skins and how he can't seem to figure out which shoe goes on which foot or the difference between which hand is his left hand and which hand is his right hand. (I think that was the main point of his posts anyway, as much as he kept jumping subject it was hard to tell) the point is, why participate if you are just wanting something to complain about? The fact you waited until after you won to air your grievances just makes you points seem shallow and makes one out to be a coward who is just out to ruin everyone else's mood because they are made so bitter with their own outlooks.
 

GuiiHenrique

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That's exactly what it is and that's what makes it special. :)
It would be really special, but you only selected the part you liked!? However, in the ignored part it is said that the sensation that passes is that of a game with a closed community. So, I think we agree that apparently PWO is not a game made by fans for fans, but a game made by fans for a community that best suits their administrators.

Yet you had no problem participating and claiming the prizes before you complained ;)
As I said before ... I only made this comment because I won. I know the PWO community well enough to know that:

1 - If I say this before the announcement of this event, what happens?
Answer: The community characterizes me as a player who came out of nowhere and is trying to get attention.

2 - If I say this before the winners are announced, what happens?
Answer: The community characterizes me as a player who came out of nowhere and who is afraid of losing, that is, preparing his speech of defeat.

3 - If I say this after the winners are announced, what happens? (Which is my choice)
Answer: Well, what the community thinks of me, I don't know ... and I really don't want to know. But it is not because I won a competition that I have to fully agree with it.

I didn't particularly understand what you tried to say. Well, one of my complaints here is the fact that the game is discouraging because it doesn't have much to do and cannot observe an improvement proposal with the way the game is conducted. But your comment implies that I entered to win a prize that would force me to play more ... ¬¬
Ah so come on, if I'm unmotivated with the game I should play more often and so my problem will be solved (???)

I would not answer your comment (because ...), but it served to highlight other incomplete information. Well, it is not clear when the winners would be awarded (whether it would be at the time the winners are announced or if it would be the day the event would start). In fact, the information given is that it does not have a specified date. I haven't had time to log in yet or look at Playerdex if I already have active MS, but I ask the team, please, if you haven't already put MS in my account, transfer my prize to Jobey. He was the only player who came to talk about prizes, so I think he would be happy with that.

;)
 

GuiiHenrique

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As Jobey said, cool story bro. Why is this the place to discuss this? You sound like a sore winner, and I find myself hoping staff will revoke your win and bar you from participation in future contests.
That would be the easiest. After all, it is simpler to ignore someone than to try to understand their point of view. What you see as history I see as an example. This whole part of Skin or the “mini timeline” served to illustrate that the my discontent with the decisions seen in the game comes from a long time ago being reinforced by this current Mapping Contest. If you have trouble identifying examples, it won't be me who will fix this.

Once again you insist on talking about the Quest while I talk about the Map.
Let's do it like this, if the event was happening today and you were going to answer the following question how would you do it?
for pory event what was that how can we go to the map
Would you say that it should go to a computer or to a specific map through some port or other means of transport?

For being a Mapping Contest with a Quest already done, in my understanding, whoever creates a map is not exactly free to do what they want, in this case I believe it was missing it:
Historia.png
(Suggestion sent in PM together to the map, after that your Quest would enter - which you say so much ..)

how it didn't happen, I expected at least an ad like this:
https://forum.pokemon-world-online.com/index.php?threads/secret-base-mapping-contest-closed.37769/

As you said yourself, you don't have much practice in this area. So be aware that in PWO that artistic freedom or free interpretation that you think exists most often bumps up against this:
Liberdade artistica.png

You say that I wrote pages talking about your Quest. I didn't say that, you who insist on believing in that. In fact, what I can't see what your map entry would look like (which in this case would be the least of the problems) which is what you have a hard time understanding.

I am TOTALLY AGAINST the way in which this Mapping Contest was carried out.
Here it is highlighted that my main disagreement with this event is the way in which it was made, that is, once again I disagree with how the game is conducted. In my opinion, this shouldn't be a Mapping Contest, it should be your event. It would be much simpler to put you in contact with an official Mapper of the game or some player to perform the part you were missing.
For me, taking the Quest from one player and the Map from another is a way to combine the useful with the pleasant and transfer the responsibilities.

The situation is worse because a GM made a joke instead of a GE? What kind of nonsense is that?
Well, it is at least risky to give freedom to any player to code some part of the game.

Final consideration: I will try to use your idea ... If in order to reach the NPC "Operations Manager" I will go through teleportation made from a computer, part of the map can already be discarded, but it would be interesting to know that beforehand.
 

shodan21

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Well, it is at least risky to give freedom to any player to code some part of the game.
What part of the word joke is eluding you here?!

1 - If I say this before the announcement of this event, what happens?
Answer: The community characterizes me as a player who came out of nowhere and is trying to get attention.

2 - If I say this before the winners are announced, what happens?
Answer: The community characterizes me as a player who came out of nowhere and who is afraid of losing, that is, preparing his speech of defeat.

3 - If I say this after the winners are announced, what happens? (Which is my choice)
Answer: Well, what the community thinks of me, I don't know ... and I really don't want to know. But it is not because I won a competition that I have to fully agree with it.
What you arrived at is "I appear as a player who came out of nowhere to give useless and uninformed opinions on the contest that I just won and the state of the game in a forum thread where such opinions were neither warranted nor desired", so, congratulations, I guess. Also, congratulations on succeeding at ruining a mapping contest, and at discouraging players from coming up with their own ideas for fear of creating more drama like this.
 
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Jobey

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As I said before ... I only made this comment because I won. I know the PWO community well enough to know that:
3 - If I say this after the winners are announced, what happens? (Which is my choice)
My point I'm trying to make is you ridicule the event and ridicule the circumstances of the event yet you entered the event and had no issues with reaping the rewards. I will not deny that you worked hard and earned the prize with a very remarkable map, but the fact that you won it and then completely crapped on everything is kind of like spitting in the face of the competitors that too worked hard, but unlike you, they actually cared about the event for what it was and appreciated the opportunity.

You talk about PWO being a closed community and again what if it is? Why is that a bad thing? The small sum of people that still play are the life blood of this game. They keep it going while weathering every single storm that comes their way. One day if PWO ever becomes as prosperous as in the past, it will be because of these few that stayed and never gave up on the game.

This game is not perfect and it may seem stationary but it has an amazing community, like a small neighborhood that alone keeps a town alive so it may one day grow again. Who cares if the staff aren't up to your expectations or don't meet the standards you think they should make? Again, you don't like hearing it but facts are facts that they are volunteers for this game and they should never feel the need to prioritize it over their lives.

As long as you have this small bunch of "closed community" players though, they will do their part to help keep this going. This event is a perfect example of that. What started out as a small discussion, a simple snowflake of an idea if you will, snowballed into something far beyond that, all because a select few did their part. Shodan had the idea of something he wanted, people pitched in spawn ideas, people pitched in atmophere and layouts, people even pitched in a story for the quest. A team effort that lead to a mapping event that may lead to full blown event. Sorry about the long post but there is just so much that I think you are over looking and bashing with such a condescending and bitter post.
 

thunderclap

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Amazing map and story GuiiHenrique. Great effort -- why did you make such a nice map if you're so burnt out with PWO? I don't quite follow your nonsensical ramblings, but I disagree that this contest was a bad thing. I think it's good that staff are accepting help for once, and it resulted in some great content being made for the game. Hope you are around if/when this swarm/event takes place.

BTW I agree no staff member should feel pressured to steal time away from their personal commitments to work on this game, but we need more transparency if we want a healthy community. Too often we get told vague things like:
We are, as always, being active in the background, but are not ready to announce anything just yet while we are still tunnelling our new paths forwards through the maze of 2020.
I appreciate your detailed posts, but are we really to believe you guys are ALWAYS active in the background? Is there really some big new game development (as opposed to a seasonal bandaid swarm/event) that could almost be announced, like that implies? Please forgive my skepticism -- I'm all ears if you have some clarification you can share here or on Discord. Either way I'm thankful on this blessed Canadian Thanksgiving that someone other than our eccentric five-lettered figurehead cares enough to placate us with non-truths. I do believe you mean well and are just trying to keep things positive.

Edit: clarification :D
lunatic.png
 
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GuiiHenrique

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My point I'm trying to make is you ridicule the event and ridicule the circumstances of the event yet you entered the event and had no issues with reaping the rewards. I will not deny that you worked hard and earned the prize with a very remarkable map, but the fact that you won it and then completely crapped on everything is kind of like spitting in the face of the competitors that too worked hard, but unlike you, they actually cared about the event for what it was and appreciated the opportunity.

You talk about PWO being a closed community and again what if it is? Why is that a bad thing? The small sum of people that still play are the life blood of this game. They keep it going while weathering every single storm that comes their way. One day if PWO ever becomes as prosperous as in the past, it will be because of these few that stayed and never gave up on the game.

This game is not perfect and it may seem stationary but it has an amazing community, like a small neighborhood that alone keeps a town alive so it may one day grow again. Who cares if the staff aren't up to your expectations or don't meet the standards you think they should make? Again, you don't like hearing it but facts are facts that they are volunteers for this game and they should never feel the need to prioritize it over their lives.

As long as you have this small bunch of "closed community" players though, they will do their part to help keep this going. This event is a perfect example of that. What started out as a small discussion, a simple snowflake of an idea if you will, snowballed into something far beyond that, all because a select few did their part. Shodan had the idea of something he wanted, people pitched in spawn ideas, people pitched in atmophere and layouts, people even pitched in a story for the quest. A team effort that lead to a mapping event that may lead to full blown event. Sorry about the long post but there is just so much that I think you are over looking and bashing with such a condescending and bitter post.
I don't want to ridicule or discourage anyone who strives to help the game evolve, quite the contrary, as I said in my first message, I even admire them. The problem is that there are people who select small excerpts from my comments and totally take the focus off the message, which was with the way the game is conducted (and that caught my attention even more at this event).

You see, when there is space for players to create an event, in my opinion, this event needs to be a large event, it would be like a party or something celebratory.

At this event specifically, Shodan was encouraged to create Quest and the whole story behind it. Because whoever encouraged Shodan to do this did not try to encourage other players to also perform the missing parts jointly with Shodan? It would be much simpler and more rewarding to create a team formed by players and then create an event that would have consistency in all parts. When an event is held, it is necessary to keep in mind that everything that will be present in it will somehow need to be in agreement and, therefore, it is necessary that it be elaborated together.

Let's take an example ... The idea of Shodan allows an event of any proportion, after all, a computer virus is not restricted to just one computer. That way it would be perfectly possible to use all the winning maps in the realization of this event, because the way the Quest was written allows the player to perform each part of the Quest on a map. It would be something like: "This virus is somehow managing to transfer to other computers in different regions". But no... the announcement of the event fits perfectly in a mini event or even a swarm.

The game allows me to think that PWO has the practice of leaving players for a long period without news and then announces something that will bring some prizes and everything will be fine, and that, in my view, is totally discouraging.

You said that you think the idea of a closed community is positive. In my opinion it is a complicated idea for the simple fact that if an idea different from yours appears, the result will be somehow dangerous. And also in your opinion do you believe that the current small community (active players in the game) of PWO must really be closed because it is it that keeps the game alive. Note, the game community today is small due to the simple fact that most players left the game because they did not observe a positive future or because they arrived at a part of the game where they no longer have anything to do (as is the case of most of the Collectors or Battlers I’ve met).

One point that caught my attention in your comments is your opinion of when a person can or cannot send feedback or criticism. Well, I am an advocate of the idea that any participant can send feedback when he deems it necessary and I believe that when the message comes from the winner of a contest it must at least be observed. You can tell me that it shouldn't be public but it should be exposed privately. Well, I even agree with that, but I didn’t do it privately because I’ve already observed earlier moments when responses seemed automatic or superficial.

So again, my criticism is not about the event itself, but about the way in which it is proposed and announced (again lacked planning), which was not a novelty at this event, but the feedback came before its conclusion, differently from previous ones.

What part of the word joke is eluding you here?!
It seems a joke to see a GM not knowing that it is dangerous to allow any player to program part of the game.

Final considerations: Not seeing an ingame player does not mean it is not there. This is the danger of a closed community, no one is forced to be in your group of friends or send you a hello daily, that would only be normal if society lived in a small bubble.

PS: I'll be a little busy this week, so don't be surprised if I take longer to respond, of course, if there is need or if I think it is necessary.
 

LunaticJames

Content maker
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The game allows me to think that PWO has the practice of leaving players for a long period without news and then announces something that will bring some prizes and everything will be fine, and that, in my view, is totally discouraging.

You said that you think the idea of a closed community is positive. In my opinion it is a complicated idea for the simple fact that if an idea different from yours appears, the result will be somehow dangerous. And also in your opinion do you believe that the current small community (active players in the game) of PWO must really be closed because it is it that keeps the game alive. Note, the game community today is small due to the simple fact that most players left the game because they did not observe a positive future or because they arrived at a part of the game where they no longer have anything to do (as is the case of most of the Collectors or Battlers I’ve met).

One point that caught my attention in your comments is your opinion of when a person can or cannot send feedback or criticism. Well, I am an advocate of the idea that any participant can send feedback when he deems it necessary and I believe that when the message comes from the winner of a contest it must at least be observed. You can tell me that it shouldn't be public but it should be exposed privately. Well, I even agree with that, but I didn’t do it privately because I’ve already observed earlier moments when responses seemed automatic or superficial.

So again, my criticism is not about the event itself, but about the way in which it is proposed and announced (again lacked planning), which was not a novelty at this event, but the feedback came before its conclusion, differently from previous ones.
I agree with this statement. And a lot of other things stated by Guii. I appreciate that you can speak your mind, and encourage more of it. These (and previous comments) are legitimate criticisms of how we can adjust our short comings for the better of the games future. I do not think it is healthy to dismiss it entirely because of where the message was given, as the content it contains is sensible and able to be built upon.
A closed community was nicer when its compared to before events and drama, but that time has passed so would be more healthy to open up the game again and have higher numbers. Guii mentioned the other reasons why remaining closed is bad.

A simple part is to just back up words with actions. We can talk about how "We have plans" and "Are working on things in the background", but what is said doesn't matter as much compared to what is released. I do not really appreciate being pressed for info on Discord about what we're working on after I've made it clear we'll announce when we are ready, so minus points for you thunderclap :(

One thing that has happened in the background from this discussion - that I did mention on Discord - is that while we always enjoy surprising people with new stuff, we can try an approach where we lay out a goal, and reasonably achievable time schedule. The point still stands that we are currently not ready to announce anything just yet, but in the future we will lay out a release schedule that we would be okay with. A little from Column "A" and a little from Column "B" as thunder said it in Discord.

Other criticisms we will work on in time, but meanwhile we will busy behind scenes. Where possible ofc (I'm moving house in like 2 days, fingers crossed for internet on day 1)
 

thunderclap

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139
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I do not really appreciate being pressed for info on Discord about what we're working on after I've made it clear we'll announce when we are ready, so minus points for you thunderclap :(
There is more I could say, but ....... we're always available to discuss things in Discord if desired.
lunatic2.png

Negative points for me? I'm sorry that I've caused you negative emotions, but I reject the notion I've done something wrong. You literally asked to be pestered on Discord. I suggested for you to PM me and offered to keep whatever you said a secret, and then you answered me publically. That's why I didn't ask you before posting the screenshot.

And despite my apparent wrongdoing I feel obliged to mention you've backpedaled a bit to now say "a little from A and a little from B". I hope the spirit of my wording of column B ("infrastructure change" ) would mean more than a new pokemon/pokeball during a mini-swarm or something. Again I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

All that said, I'm sorry for potentially causing you bad vibes during your move. Moving is always a pain in the butt, expensive and stressful. The rewards can be really great too so hopefully you have that to look forward to.
 
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shodan21

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Aug 7, 2016
Messages
95
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18
At this event specifically, Shodan was encouraged to create Quest and the whole story behind it. Because whoever encouraged Shodan to do this did not try to encourage other players to also perform the missing parts jointly with Shodan? It would be much simpler and more rewarding to create a team formed by players and then create an event that would have consistency in all parts.
The full story behind this is that I came up with an idea for having an event with T3 Porygon and releasing Dubious Disc to make Porygon-Z obtainable. I kept poking staff about it ("dubious disc wen"), and was eventually encouraged to flesh out the idea. I understand that "design by committee" is usually a good thing, and it did eventually happen (Jobey more or less wrote the story, for example), but I would think it rather inappropriate to try and encourage other people to run with my idea without my approval. Instead, I was simply encouraged to go further with the idea, and ended up including other people of my own volition. I don't see why you seem to think this to be a bad thing.

Let's take an example ... The idea of Shodan allows an event of any proportion, after all, a computer virus is not restricted to just one computer. That way it would be perfectly possible to use all the winning maps in the realization of this event, because the way the Quest was written allows the player to perform each part of the Quest on a map. It would be something like: "This virus is somehow managing to transfer to other computers in different regions". But no... the announcement of the event fits perfectly in a mini event or even a swarm.
I thought it fairly clear that this was intended as an isolated network, and the computer in question is simply a terminal into that network. Again, you're overthinking this.

The game allows me to think that PWO has the practice of leaving players for a long period without news and then announces something that will bring some prizes and everything will be fine, and that, in my view, is totally discouraging.
Now, this I agree with. I think PWO has for far too long tried to use events as stopgap measures pending completion of major content releases (namely, Sevii and Hoenn). It works, somewhat, since an event is better than nothing, but I agree that it isn't sustainable. But what is the point of complaining about this for the thousandth time? Do you think staff are unaware of this? That they've never heard this reasoning before? Do you think that bringing this up over and over and over again is going to encourage staff to get things done, as if it's the last little bit of motivation they needed? I don't - I think, if anything, it's tiresome and discouraging. As an example, I remember a rant from Tasigur about how he ended up hating the idea of working on PWO because of how ungrateful and hostile players were towards staff - and this is exactly what you're doing right now. Why should staff reward you with new content for these complaints? If anything, that only encourages you to complain more, doesn't it?

So again, my criticism is not about the event itself, but about the way in which it is proposed and announced (again lacked planning), which was not a novelty at this event, but the feedback came before its conclusion, differently from previous ones.
This is a bit of a word salad sentence, but ultimately I don't see an issue (other than how long it took to announce results) with the way this contest was conducted. I came up with an event suggestion, and didn't make a map to go with it. Belemuel brought up the idea of doing a mapping contest for it, and I agreed to it. What part of this do you think so wrong that you thought it worth devoting so much time to complaining about it here?

It seems a joke to see a GM not knowing that it is dangerous to allow any player to program part of the game.
No, what seems a joke is your lack of comprehension. There was no "allowing any player to program part of the game" there. None whatsoever. If they wanted me to do it, and I was willing to do it, they would have brought me on as staff first, with all of the ensuing precautions they take for that, just like anyone else. I'm not some special person that they'd circumvent the protections for, and it's mind-boggling how incapable you are of understanding this.

A simple part is to just back up words with actions. We can talk about how "We have plans" and "Are working on things in the background", but what is said doesn't matter as much compared to what is released. I do not really appreciate being pressed for info on Discord about what we're working on after I've made it clear we'll announce when we are ready, so minus points for you thunderclap :(

One thing that has happened in the background from this discussion - that I did mention on Discord - is that while we always enjoy surprising people with new stuff, we can try an approach where we lay out a goal, and reasonably achievable time schedule. The point still stands that we are currently not ready to announce anything just yet, but in the future we will lay out a release schedule that we would be okay with. A little from Column "A" and a little from Column "B" as thunder said it in Discord.
My perspective/input on this is that it would be beneficial to be a bit more specific on what you guys are working on behind the scenes, even if you aren't able to give any schedule information. It's always a challenge balancing transparency with making sure you only announce things that you can follow through on (i.e., it's not good to get hopes up for something that ends up getting scrapped), but I would think that once an idea is far enough along that it's a matter of when, rather than if, that would be a reasonable point where you could provide insights on it to the players, even if you don't have a set timetable for its release.
 

Kaminari

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Aug 2, 2017
Messages
13
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1
My point I'm trying to make is you ridicule the event and ridicule the circumstances of the event yet you entered the event and had no issues with reaping the rewards. I will not deny that you worked hard and earned the prize with a very remarkable map, but the fact that you won it and then completely crapped on everything is kind of like spitting in the face of the competitors that too worked hard, but unlike you, they actually cared about the event for what it was and appreciated the opportunity.

You talk about PWO being a closed community and again what if it is? Why is that a bad thing? The small sum of people that still play are the life blood of this game. They keep it going while weathering every single storm that comes their way. One day if PWO ever becomes as prosperous as in the past, it will be because of these few that stayed and never gave up on the game.

This game is not perfect and it may seem stationary but it has an amazing community, like a small neighborhood that alone keeps a town alive so it may one day grow again. Who cares if the staff aren't up to your expectations or don't meet the standards you think they should make? Again, you don't like hearing it but facts are facts that they are volunteers for this game and they should never feel the need to prioritize it over their lives.

As long as you have this small bunch of "closed community" players though, they will do their part to help keep this going. This event is a perfect example of that. What started out as a small discussion, a simple snowflake of an idea if you will, snowballed into something far beyond that, all because a select few did their part. Shodan had the idea of something he wanted, people pitched in spawn ideas, people pitched in atmophere and layouts, people even pitched in a story for the quest. A team effort that lead to a mapping event that may lead to full blown event. Sorry about the long post but there is just so much that I think you are over looking and bashing with such a condescending and bitter post.
Any time any player makes mention of how defensive yourself, Shodan, and Isguros are, you call them toxic. In reality, your defensiveness for developers that have abandoned this game is toxic. Thoroughly wasted my time in reading his comment only to see that there was nothing to the tune of bashing. You need to realize you're playing this game with 4-5 other people and being hostile toward anyone who tries to encourage the staff to start trying/incentivize new players again. There use to be hundreds of people online a day just a couple years ago when there was community involvement from the devs. Has it occurred to you how selfish it is to accept a status quo where only yourself and 4 or 5 other individuals get a good break and hundreds others have to take a hike? I somehow doubt it, because, it seems to me you just want to win arguments and keep chastising anyone who tries to encourage updates or events at this point in lieu of any hope for updates being made.

Literally the last time I checked on this game was when they made the update where you can join a guild and get extra exp/shiny ratios. If you think that alone is worth getting behind the game for when there is no end game content seeing as pvp battling is dead due to there being an active playerbase of ~20 people in a month, I suggest you reconsider. If you keep wanting a divebar to go to and talk to the same 3-5 people every day and say the same set of things every day, you're going to find those settings are short-lived because the lack of activity breeds bad finance keeping. Thus, it will not keep the lights on forever. The main reason why any of us are saying anything is it is a potentially fun game (has been in the past) but as of the last two years there has not been any involvement on the behalf of the developers. If people conceded that fact and hired more active people perhaps things could change, instead, it seems like every time I end up looking back on this...I'm seeing a dumpster fire of people leaving and being disheartened as they go.

Not to mention Jobey, Shodan, and the other regulars basically flipping them off as they go oblivious to the fact the place is turning in to one where no-one wants to go, no-one wants to donate and thus, no money will be had to pay for the safezone being had. Hope you can wake to smell the coffee that even if you like it the way it is, if you want to keep having a game to play dissent from your contention is the only route. Seeing as everyone has already left doing what you suggest is the right path. Or you can go the route of insanity and hope that doing the same thing over and over again will yield different results.
 
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