Ideas for Teck: Dragon Rage

[EcoWOLFrb]

Ideas for Teck: Dragon Rage​

These are ideas based on data I've collected over the course of 40 sample battles. I've noticed certain pokemon are being over used and are constantly abusing the stat effecting moves such as agility, curse, autotomize, swords dance, dragon dance, and harden.

Suggestions:​

1- Obviously more move selection would improve pokemon’s ability to resist a wider variety of pokemon, lowering the chances of being able to buff one particular pokemon such as steelix or dragonite. (TM’s, HM’s, BW2 Movesets, Egg Moves, Tutor Moves) would all help significantly.

2- Lowering the stat increases by a reasonable percent. In example, stage increases or decreases would go as follows:
Stage: -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
Percentage:25% 29% 33% 40% 50% 67% 100% 125% 150% 175% 200% 250% 300%

Or at least something similar to this. I don’t believe the stage reductions are a major problem as they are currently. The stages could go back to the current levels when more pokemon, and moves are introduced to the game to disable incredible boosts.


3- Further limiting the amount of stages one Pokemon’s stat can increase or decrease.I would suggest a limit of 3 stages for each individual stat personally. This would disallow certain pokemon to make themselves unbeatable if type advantage allows, but allow things like defense to be boosted after attack has already been increased to allow strategy to still have it’s benefits. (This idea could be used as a substitute for idea number 2, or could go alongside it depending on people’s input.)

4- Disallow continuous cycles of status ailments without a break. Currently the system does not have a safety that stops Pokemon from falling asleep while already being asleep, resetting the cycle of turns in the process. This would be devastating if one were to use stat increasing moves while the opponent is perpetually unable to attack.
In Example, Snorlax vs Kingdra. Kingdra is well known to be absolutely useless against snorlax, so snorlax uses yawn, putting kingdra to sleep. In the following two turns Snor uses Belly Drum to significantly raise its attack, and repeats the process until Snor has 400% of it’s base attack. The Snorlax could possibly go on to defeat a couple other pokemon that it wouldn’t usually be able to, had it not been able to abuse this method. (not sure if this has been, or is in the process of being fixed yet)

5- Fix existing moves for the sake of pokemon that can be taken advantage of. An example of this would be Arca using Retaliate on Dragonite if the move worked correctly, it would have a chance of doing either 70, or 140 damage. Therefore it should be averaged at around 105 damage. More research would have to be done regarding other moves that have the same type of situation.


Pokemon used in battle survey, each line represents one full team an opponent used.

HOF’s Contribution

Spoiler

Feraligatr, Dragonite, Starmie, Jolteon, steelix, Charizard
Flygon, Jolteon, Charizard, Snorlax, Swampert, Metagross
Gyarados, Steelix, Dragonite, Jolteon, Starmie, Charizard
exeggutor, dragonite, mamoswine, jolteon, kingdra, flygon
Slowbro, mamoswine, dragonite, Alakazam, metagross, kingdra
Snorlax, Espeon, Jolteon, Cloyster, Steelix, dragonite

Sam’s Contribution

Spoiler

Salamence, Starmie, Snorlax, Charizard, Dragonite, metagross
Heracross, Mamoswine, salamence, Gyarados, dragonite, Starmie
Feraligatr, snorlax, alakazam, Arcanine, Jolteon, Dragonite
Slaking, Flygon, cloyster, Salamence, Jolteon, Metagross
Mamo, Snorlax, Espeon, Arcanine, meganium, vaporeon
Snorlax, Arcanine, Flygon, mamoswine, dragonite, Jolteon
Dragonite, Arcanine, Salamence, Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Exeggutor
Snorlax, Gyarados, kangaskhan, Aerodactyl, Salamence, Dragonite
kingdra, Metagross, jolteon, Omastar, snorlax, Salamence
Feraligatr, Snorlax, kingdra, Arcanine, Sceptile, Dragonite
mamoswine, kangaskhan, kingdra, Lapras, typhlosion, Jolteon
Starmie, mamoswine, Espeon, Cloyster, Kingdra, Snorlax
jolteon, Swampert, Dragonite, S Golem, S Gyarados, Mamoswine
Kingdra, Blaziken, Jolteon, Cloyster, Espeon, flygon
Mamoswine, Metagross, lapras, Snorlax, Dragonite, Arcanine
donphan,espeon, dragonite, kingdra, steelix, venusaur
kingdra, salamence, charizard, dragonite, flygon, gyarados
kingdra, snorlax, starmie, dragonite, typhlosion, scizor
Dragonite, Arcanine, Starmie, snorlax, metagross, cloyster
snorlax, Mamoswine, lapras, arcanine, dragonite, metagross
Kingdra, snorlax, flygon, gengar, gyarados, mamoswine
snorlax, lapras, arcanine, dragonite, metagross, mamoswine
Aerodactyl, mamoswine, Flygon, Gengar, Kingdra, espeon
relicanth, snorlax, kingdra, miltank, dragonite, metagross
Relicanth, snorlax, kingdra, miltank, gyarados, dragonite
Arcanine, Kingdra, salamence, gengar, dragonite, alakazam
forretress, slaking, dragonite, Arcanine, kingdra, gyarados
slaking, dragonite, Arcanine, metagross, snorlax, Starmie
espeon, heracross, salamence, jolteon, snorlax, mamoswine
kingdra, flygon, feraligatr, salamence, charizard, dragonite
Charizard, sceptile, aerodactyl, gengar, arcanine, dragonite
Dragonite, metagross, kingdra, arcanine, charizard, mamoswine
charizard, metagross, kingdra, dragonite, Arcanine, mamoswine
dragonite, charizard, Metagross, kingdra, Arcanine, mamoswine

Pokemon Used in Number, and Percentage (in order of use)

Dragonite- 30 used (12.5%)
kingdra- 21 used (8.75%)
Snorlax- 20 used (8.33%)
Mamoswine- 17 used (7.08%)
Arcanine- 16 used (6.67%)
Jolteon- 14 used (5.83%)
Metagross- 14 used (5.83%)
Salamence- 10 used (4.17%)
Charizard- 10 used (4.17%)
Flygon- 9 used (3.75%)
Starmie- 8 used (3.33%)
Gyarados- 8 used (3.33%)
Espeon- 7 used (2.92%)
Cloyster- 5 used (2.08%)
Steelix- 4 used (1.67%)
Lapras- 4 used (1.67%)
Gengar- 4 used (1.67%)
Aerodactyl- 4 used (1.67%)
Feraligatr- 4 used (1.67%)
Slaking- 3 used (1.25%)
Alakazam- 3 used (1.25%)
Miltank- 2 used (.833%)
Kangaskhan-2 used (.833%)
Exeggutor- 2 used (.833%)
Relicanth- 2 used (.833%)
Typhlosion- 2 used (.833%)
Heracross- 2 used (.833%)
Swampert- 2 used (.833%)
Sceptile- 2 used (.833%)
golem- 1 used (.417%)
slowbro- 1 used (.417%)
donphan- 1 used (.417%)
blaziken- 1 used (.417%)
omastar- 1 used (.417%)
venusaur- 1 used (.417%)
meganium- 1 used (.417%)
vaporeon- 1 used (.417%)
forretress- 1 used (.417%)

As you can see the most used pokemon happens to be the pokemon easiest to boost. Before the update you would've seen more selection, and some naturally good battlers that are now practically unheard of in battle as they are a death wish (sceptile, heracross, swampert). The top 10 most used pokemon excluding Arcanine are all either capable of boosting themselves, or are meant to prevent Dragonite from boosting itself (which further proves the extent of Dragonite's influence). I don't believe any one pokemon should be capable of changing the entire battle scene, forcing people to exclude multiple former members of their team in order to avoid terrible consequences if used. I am not biased against Dragonite, or steelix, or any other pokemon capable of increasing it's effectiveness... I just believe it's going a little too far when one pokemon can destroy an entire team with ease after

More evidence of abuse is this cheap strategy Psychosamm experienced in her battles, using the first two pokemon used in battle as sacrifices to allow a dragonite to heavily boost itself is shown in these pictures:
http://i.imgur.com/yR7eiuE.png
http://i.imgur.com/LjNYTRf.png
As you can see donphan and espeon used charm and growl to lower snorlax's attack as much as possible, Dragonite then came in and made itself essentially invincible if it was used correctly, the ability to do this is pretty sad in my opinion.

Please leave feedback, but be respectful to each other. No one needs to get into any arguments, or express themselves as irritated in any way. Let's avoid any forum warnings/bans, or the topic being forced to be locked. We worked on this together to help improve the game, the feedback is you doing your part.

 

[Nikola]

-People are often having one Pokemon in their team that can give opportunity to boost yours such as Jolteon and Snorlax. Pokemon that would boost against those two is Steelix. However using Growl or Trump card can assure that your next Pokemon is going to get rid of a Steelix if your team is composed well enough. In Snorlax's case people usually get baffled using something other which is not Last resort or stat changing move. I don't know sometimes why would people attack Steelix using Last resort only while your are in Steelix/Jolteon mode without using stat changing move. However this would be another issue since we can fill 10 pages of battle logs with curse and growls. This is why I would agree with some limit made. Not due to abnormal boost its due to players abusing battle system and battle is becoming more like battle of Metapods and stubborn ones. In many occasions, opponent wont or cannot attack since they are only concentrated about doing an stat changing move. Even without enough "Atk Ups" Sand tomb still can hit 5 times which is delicate situation.

-In Dragonite's case, only Pokemon in your team that can offer him a high boost would be either Sceptile or Swampert. However there are many others but they are not worthy of mentioning due to not being used or they are not competitive. Swampert would be different scenario then Sceptile since using Take Down does not make you losing HP which recoil should be doing in a first place. However Take Down would be enough for your opponent to stop spamming Dragon Dances and give you an opportunity to counter with a Pokemon such as Cloyster. But unfortunately choice of a counter Pokemon is very limited. Why would you use Snorlax or Agrron for example? Originally, Dragonite stands no chance against Snorlax and Aggron shouldn't be able to offer him a boost. You might try to record a battle making real environment, you might get a chance of seeing Sceptile or something and use Dragonite against it. Personally, I do not even have that move installed on my Dragonite since I am not baffled with stat changing move. And number of a Pokemon that he can boost on are decreased dramatically since Sleep and Confusion moves are working very weird now.

-Thing is. Battle engine is not developed and any update made might have positive results from one side but from another side there will be a conflict. Everything written above would be a "not good" side of a whole update for some people while most of the people can find it useful since they will rather replace one Pokemon in their team rather then more then one. There is an unofficial rule being enforced in PvP which is "No Switching". Imagine you can switch your Pokemon when you come across Steelix? While in handhelds people do switch and battle engine is developed having all moves working as intended. This is going to be endless loop since game isn't developed and you will not be able to please everyone since people are always moaning about something. No matter what you give to them they will always find a reason to moan about. There is no moaning in handhelds since everything is synchronized and working well. PWO has unique place for complainers such as forums. Everyone can spit everything out. From other side it can be used well. Positive feedback can be given and many other opinions can be listened. This topic should be positive since feedback can be given. Personally I would also like to see some changes and limits made for stat changing moves not forgetting Sleep and Confusion moves of course. Starmie or Gengar can troll whole team if your lucky enough same with team of 6 Steelixes versing 6 Jolteons.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

thanks for the input darcia, the only thing I think you got confused about it the screen shot, but maybe you weren't... allow me to verify.
sam throws out snorlax first, the opponent throws out donphan first and uses charm to lower snorlax's atk until donphan dies
espeon is then thrown out against snorlax lowering his attack further with growl until espeon dies.
Dragonite is then used to boost against the handicapped snorlax, allowing him to boost until he has just a little HP left.
Sam threw out Aggron because of it's immense defense, if the dragonite didn't have aqua tail then he couldn't OHKO aggron, and he would've been dealt the killing blow with iron head.
I hope that's what you gathered on it originally, sorry if it was unclear.

 

[Dr.brock]

I dont know what to say about all this.
But that man using charm n growl so many times..!! is he fool, he don't know that stats cant be furthered changed after 6 stages..!! lol according to post on Announcement.
Also I would like to say, stages are not being worked properly in PWO, still...
<Well thats a good strategy to battle >.
Those ideas can only flopped when switching is introduced in battlings.. Why original game is balanced, though they had same increments is due to this switching option there, which is not here. So after all this update, I think fixing switching bug should be first priority, which would balance the battles.
Then Pokes like heracross, swampert, sceptile etc will be used automatically
<Though one reason for not being using them is that they are UC Sceptile costs 10m while drago,snorlax,cloyster,sala,arca etc etc wont cost any more than 2-3m.(not epic ones)>
But yeah main problem is switching..!!!

 

[andrewle]

I too use this kind of strategy

But that man using charm n growl so many times..!! is he fool, he don't know that stats cant be furthered changed after 6 stages..!! lol according to post on Announcement.

he prolly did that so he wont kill snorlax because after snorlax had very low attack he took out his dragonite to boost it with snorlax. TBH its quite effective i can use it with Charizard Kangaskhan Snorlax and Heracross and also Arcanine although Charizard and Kangaskhan have outrage and dragon claw in their move set they are not dragons so they dont have stab damage so once they are charmed or growled they wont do much damage to dragonite, the primary drawback about this strategy is there's no much probability on it, it is very one-track strategy ounce the dragonite is taken down you're bound to lose but if one use 2 dragonites that's a different story ) I think its also effective to use charm and growl to dragon type pokemons then bring out Scizor and boost him I haven't tried it though,I can say you can beat trainers who really don't give a lot of thought making their teams with this strategy but it won't work on players that really do a lot of searching and thinking about battle tactics.

 

[LanceDM]

I too use this kind of strategy

But that man using charm n growl so many times..!! is he fool, he don't know that stats cant be furthered changed after 6 stages..!! lol according to post on Announcement.

I can say you can beat trainers who really don't give a lot of thought making their teams with this strategy but it won't work on players that really do a lot of searching and thinking about battle tactics.

And you're 100 % right with this comment. I'll make some points from what I've seen and my thoughts about this:

Think about your team and moves: What andrewle said above, these kind of ''tricks'' wont work if your team has a good line to face top trainers, knowing that there are players ''abusing'' the stat changing moves, try putting diff moves to your pokes (im talking to you all, not only you ecowolf). As in the SS, if drago came out after what happened in the SS, try using Yawn + Crunch to lower Drago's def, will be easyer for you in the next turn and you'll also be able to face the drago with snorlax himself. Happened to me, I lost against 1 Dragonite and 1 Steelix, but then I said ''something is wrong with my team AND moves'' now I have a line of 14 wins and 3 losses with this team I've made, and Swampert is there, if a Drago comes, try using a move to decrease Drago's atk or anything and then attack him.

Pwo had many, many stages (has been changing since 2008). I remember the old times, when the most powerfull poke was S gyara. S Gyara was needed to win a match, some people used to have x3 S gyaras in a team + stuff (meta, sala,etc) but then someone found that S slowbro had enough def to face and KILL S gyara, so the battle scene changed a bit, the trolls using x3 S gyaras stopped and ended up using x1 + stuff to mix. S eggs with good stats was able to KO S gyaras, S forretress, S primeape had enough spd and atk to counter, etc... for example (you'll see a very diff battle, with strange stuff but my point is: we had to addapt to the changes):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DiP44o7ga4

The same happens now. When Slaking got updated it became a tank and we saw many people complaining and many people trying to mix their teams to face Slaks, everyone is free to choose any of those sides, then slak got updated. Teck did an amazing update by putting in scene ALL (almost them all) the MOVES, but the game was still based on BRUTE FORCE, wich is something creepy, not a big diff with the old times. Now a new step came to us wich is the STAT CHANGING moves, give them some more time, give them time to face the TMs and then we can complain or say stuff... I think by now the best thing is to mix your teams till you find a perfect and stable line to face others, thats how I see this.

- There should be a limit for moves that can increase or decrease stats
- I'd like to see what happens with the tms, this will change a lot, unless you put the tms in playerdex and we have to get them with tokens instead getting them in events/game, wich will ruin the economy once more.
- Ya, we had the pleasure of seeing diff teams before this update, but this is still a fresh update so I'll give it more time.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

Think about your team and moves: What andrewle said above, these kind of ''tricks'' wont work if your team has a good line to face top trainers, knowing that there are players ''abusing'' the stat changing moves, try putting diff moves to your pokes (im talking to you all, not only you ecowolf). As in the SS, if drago came out after what happened in the SS, try using Yawn + Crunch to lower Drago's def, will be easyer for you in the next turn and you'll also be able to face the drago with snorlax himself. Happened to me, I lost against 1 Dragonite and 1 Steelix, but then I said ''something is wrong with my team AND moves'' now I have a line of 14 wins and 3 losses with this team I've made, and Swampert is there, if a Drago comes, try using a move to decrease Drago's atk or anything and then attack him.

Thanks for the feedback lance, the only thing I'd like to say is in response to this. I wasn't the one battling, but sam did manage stop the dragonite after it boosted itself, she found out the drago carried aqua tail when she used aggron, and then killed Dragonite with metagross. The point wasn't that I was complaining about her losing that battle, it was the fact that someone was able to use such cheap tactics to begin with... If it was me it'd be different entirely. Now you must realize that sometimes there isn't going to be any strategy that will save you from this (which is why a better limit on amounts of stat changing moves is one of my favorite ideas) in regard to snorlax, crunch only has a small chance of lowering defense, and yawn isn't very reliable. Not only that, moves that decrease atk don't work as you'd think. Moves that increase atk do much more of an increase than moves like growl, so there is still a net gain when you spam growl on a dragonite, while he's spamming Dragon Dance.

I believe I've given enough time for people to evolve to the current style before posting this, and am very happy to see you agree with some of my points, thanks again.

 

[patONER]

Its just a shame because it makes what was already a restrictive list of viable battles even more so.

Hopefully TMs will be introduced not too long from now and will makes things more balanced.

 

[The-Predator]

Just a few words from me, problem in here stays with the no switching pokemon allowed, those kind of strategies only happen due to that glitch, u wouldnt be able to boost stats that way if that'd be fixed

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

Kpyppo, you can switch in battle, sometimes it will glitch but I'm sure most people would prefer that to being destroyed by one pokemon. The reason people don't switch is mainly because it's against game etiquette.

 

[The-Predator]

Kpyppo, you can switch in battle, sometimes it will glitch but I'm sure most people would prefer that to being destroyed by one pokemon. The reason people don't switch is mainly because it's against game etiquette.

lol i know u can switch but that possibility of maybe it will glitch makes it a bug and thats is not normal in a pokemon game , and game ettiquette?? mm people simply dont switch due to the bug as, pokemon is supposed to be played as strategy stuff, moves, switchs thats what is pokemon about ._.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

Nah, you can pretty much ask anyone... everyone rages when people switch even if it doesn't glitch the battle. Switching is right up there with using slaking on the list of things that battlers think is cheap. I personally don't know why slaking is considered such a horror, it's not that OP anymore, still powerful yes, but not that OP.

 

[The-Predator]

Nah, you can pretty much ask anyone... everyone rages when people switch even if it doesn't glitch the battle. Switching is right up there with using slaking on the list of things that battlers think is cheap. I personally don't know why slaking is considered such a horror, it's not that OP anymore, still powerful yes, but not that OP.

is not that OP anymore due to the boost moves but face to face with a non-boosted poke is really OP still, and my thoughts are due to the fact that I have participated in tournaments made in the handhelds games when they used to gift a legendary to the winner (official tournaments tho back there 8 years ago, with real strategies) well I always knew pokemon was like that but i think we are not in the same concept of "pokemon" nvm... just saying if that bug would be fixed no one would be complaining about the invincible boosted pokemon in the first place

 

[Peace-Enforcer]

I agree with KPyppo, if switching was fixed it would be allowed in battles. Players rage against players who switch cause no one expects switching while composing there teams and I agree with them. As it was stated before, pokemons are about strategy if u enticipate switching you would just make a different team and there wouldn't be a cause to rage.
Basically what I'm saying is: Fix switching next please!