For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for toke

[mad30]

via https://www.facebook.com/USOlympicTeam

Pretty self explanatory.

http://www.biolifeplasma.com/become-don ... ation.html

You donate plasma, and you receive a debt card in return. The amount varies base on location (college towns receive less than others for example).

Often time's people will have a bake goods sale, or a soup drive where you give a free will donation (or in case of bake sale donation previously designated) in return for food.

Just because you have to give money in return for an item, doesn't mean it's not a donation.

 

[psychosamm]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

If anything its something that's used in most cases (such as 'donating' plasma) as semantics to avoid taxes, fees, regulation, (or in PWO copyright infringement), etc. Sure some people may donate for the good of the server, but just like 'donating' plasma, most people only do so because they make money, or in PWO's case they get extra stuff they want to buy. I don't really care what people call it as long as it keeps the game from getting shut down. However the reality is the reality, people buy tokens, they don't give a jalapeno about donating.

 

[HitmonFonty]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

I must admit I don't donate much since I'm pretty minimalist and rarely have any money to give away. The last time was to a Victorian Vegetarian group which rewarded us with a bunch of stuff, most memorable being the vegan chocolate.

 

[Puar]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

Not to be rude sam but your attitude is all wrong. The donation system is set in place to keep the game running. While there is extra money at the end of the month normally, noone is putting it in thier pockets. There was a time where guaranteed full stat SUCs were sold in order to raise money because the game had come up short at the end of the month.
Keep in mind while players may donate for gain and could care less about the server, the fact stands it is a donation. If we decided to turn off the tokens one day a week because we felt like it and give people nothing in return for thier money that is something that everyone would just have to deal with. Noone would have any legal grounds to take pwo to court. Not that staff would do that because we aim to please all of you (no matter how ungrateful)

Tldr

You choose to give us money, we choose to give you tokens. If you don't like it, then don't donate. See, simple

 

[psychosamm]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

Not to be rude sam but your attitude is all wrong. The donation system is set in place to keep the game running. While there is extra money at the end of the month normally, noone is putting it in thier pockets. There was a time where guaranteed full stat SUCs were sold in order to raise money because the game had come up short at the end of the month.
Keep in mind while players may donate for gain and could care less about the server, the fact stands it is a donation. If we decided to turn off the tokens one day a week because we felt like it and give people nothing in return for thier money that is something that everyone would just have to deal with. Noone would have any legal grounds to take pwo to court. Not that staff would do that because we aim to please all of you (no matter how ungrateful)

Tldr

You choose to give us money, we choose to give you tokens. If you don't like it, then don't donate. See, simple

I never said PWO pockets money, i know they don't. I'm not trying to create controversy, I'm just saying the reality about how people treat the donation system is more of a purchase mostly because they couldn't care less about helping server costs. I'm just being a realist, i don't care what it's called, whatever is best to keep the game running. Not too sure why this thread was made in the first place though.

 

[Merse]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

Well, who knows? As far as I know, there is only one man who has access to PWO's Paypal account, and we didn't hear about him in a very long time.
And I'm with samm, I think it's hypocrisy to insist on pretending this is only a donation. The only reason it was called a donation in the first place is to get around the regulations which forbid non-profit organizations to sell stuff.

 

[Puar]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

It is a donation 100%. end of story. Like I said regardless of how the players treat the donation system it is just that. A donation, we dont need to give you anything, and if we decide not to you have no claim to anything.
Also merse, you are mistaken. Xan still keeps in contact with the rest of staff regularly. His integrity should not be questioned on grounds based by inactivity.

 

[Boora]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

give me a break puar, its not a donation at all,
its just a cover for the game to not get shut down, you can relax no one really cares.
it costs around 100$ (and this is me being generous) to host the server per month, and just by blue's report of the (S)uc that come out every week,
you can get an idea of how much the game actually makes
its a free game, donations suppose to keep the server up, not give out paychecks.
for example, there' a week with around 20 (S)uc's it varys but lets say 10 trys per 1 (16token uc's) (which is also me being generous) 160$, now x20. and thats 1 week.

the example mad gave isn't valid at all, you donate and get a hat, thats cool, but in most cases you dont even know about the hat or for fonty "the bunch of stuff until
you donated, and even then, you dont care about it, its just there to remind you that you did good
in pwo, you have a bloody "shop" people can care less about donating, they just want to BUY the tokens
if it was real donation you'd stop long ago, cause if you follow my example, 12,800$ in avrage per month, is enough to keep the server running for over 10 years.
hell, lets say i'm wrong lets cut it by half, 6,400 a month, still shet ton of money, on a game that's stuck for ages on the same spot,
to be honest, you could actually hire a developer with that kinda cash, instead of keeping the game up, or should i say laughing out loud and spending it on clothes and crap,
i know people that will open a private server on maplestory, get around 200+ people to play open a very tempting donations and just sit back and let the money roll.
i know pwo or at least who ever is really incharge, doesn't mean to do it, but that's what its become, and again i'm not the only one who thinks about it, everyone knows,
but still donates, cause ITS NOT A DONATIONS ITS A TRANSACTION.

 

[Jinji]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

You forget Boora, we don't have one server, we have two to support. One is used for the game; another is used for the web-server. I can also tell you that the rate of money we receive fluctuates wildly month by month; and there have been months where Xanatus HAS had to foot the bill himself, so I've been informed.

 

[Boora]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

i'm sorry if i came off a bit strong, and yeah it makes sense, that before the shiny uc's the server didn't make as much, but with the new appeal to the store and blue's reports
i still stand by it, the server Made at least what i said in the past 2months and thats enough to fund both server for a good years not month, and you know as much jinji,

 

[Jinji]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

Honestly Boora, I have no knowledge of our finances beyond what Xanatus tells me; nor could I ever find out such information, by virtue of PayPal's own ToS.

Nevertheless, the argument that your donations are PAYING for items is incorrect, because you never exchange your money directly for the items. The items are paid for with Tokens. It COULD be argued that you still purchase the items indirectly by receiving the Tokens from donating; and this is a grey area I would rather not discuss. What I can say is it's not REQUIRED for donations to be made for Tokens - while donations may remain the key method with which to acquire Tokens, it is also possible to acquire them through staff-run promotions or very rarely as rewards, with no money being exchanged at all. And TOKENS are the currency used in the Token Store. So it is incorrect to say ALL Token Store items are "paid for", whether or not you subscribe to the idea of "indirect purchase", because you CAN get items without ever donating money at all, if one is lucky enough to take advantage of our generosity.

 

[SenjuPakura]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

Couldn't resist but to pipe in (even as a filthy outcast).

I happen to be a law student. By no means am I yet qualified but I do have some level of experience with this and I am sorry to say that, at least in British Courts, this would most likely be considered a transaction and not a donation. The main reasons are actually rather simple, a donation hinges on the fact that with or without your input the service would still be provided. A purchase or transaction is functionally different as the service or "product" will only be given upon receipt of the "fee". The fact that there are pokemon in the token store that are available exclusively upon receipt of money would make most British Courts view it as a transaction rather than a donation. In addition to the fact that in the past players were banned for acquiring these pokemon "illegally" without donating is another problem.

 

[Orean]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

a donation hinges on the fact that with or without your input the service would still be provided.

The "service" in context would be the heart of PWO's operations, in the servers. Although donations can be seen as the backbone for the server upkeep, what if it has not been disproved that it could be paid for without donations? I believe that is a valid point to address, whereon continuity of the services can be considered possible, given potential alternatives—as mentioned, Xanatus has expended money from his own pocket to help fund for the server.

Furthermore, the server technically could remain in operation without a rented server—if it was to run on a PC hosted at someone's house, rather than by-rental. As infeasible as this is, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a hypothetical example in use to validate how the services could be provided without any donations at all, even if it's not the go-to method.

A purchase or transaction is functionally different as the service or "product" will only be given upon receipt of the "fee". The fact that there are pokemon in the token store that are available exclusively upon receipt of money would make most British Courts view it as a transaction rather than a donation.

Although donations are the primary method of obtaining tokens, they are not the only method; as Jinji mentioned, there have been token giveaways sanctioned from time to time. Yes, there is a "receipt" for token store purchases (transaction IDs), but such purchases are paid for by tokens, not direct monetary transactions. Would you consider monetary donations legally binding to tokens, given the possibilities (even if infrequent) of obtaining tokens without donating?

 

[LanceDM]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

I think none of you should speak as if you knew A or B because 'Pinocho told me that this is A, so it can't be B. Just stop this whole conversation, to me, its pretty, but pretty obvious and I'll get in rage if I comment what I want to comment on this topic, but I won't. Its a matter of taking some time to do some calculations.

EDIT: Sorry, I couldnt resist... but seriously, you'll keep contradicting each other by putting your own argument.

 

[JD001]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

Why make it difficult? It's an exchange of one good for another. It's a trade.

 

[Tecknician]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

I think none of you should speak as if you knew A or B because 'Pinocho told me that this is A, so it can't be B. Just stop this whole conversation, to me, its pretty, but pretty obvious and I'll get in rage if I comment what I want to comment on this topic, but I won't. Its a matter of taking some time to do some calculations.

EDIT: Sorry, I couldnt resist... but seriously, you'll keep contradicting each other by putting your own argument.

I fail to see why there would be a need to cease this conversation. What is it hurting? It's a discussion and little more, until fist start being thrown there is nothing wrong with what is taking place. Arguments are a good thing as long as they are done in a constructive and open manner.

Anyone who dislike the topic at hand, I would suggest to simply not view the topic again.

 

[LanceDM]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

I think none of you should speak as if you knew A or B because 'Pinocho told me that this is A, so it can't be B. Just stop this whole conversation, to me, its pretty, but pretty obvious and I'll get in rage if I comment what I want to comment on this topic, but I won't. Its a matter of taking some time to do some calculations.

EDIT: Sorry, I couldnt resist... but seriously, you'll keep contradicting each other by putting your own argument.

I fail to see why there would be a need to cease this conversation. What is it hurting? It's a discussion and little more, until fist start being thrown there is nothing wrong with what is taking place. Arguments are a good thing as long as they are done in a constructive and open manner.

Anyone who dislike the topic at hand, I would suggest to simply not view the topic again.

I have a bad feeling, something like that, this was discussed before in many occasions.-

 

[Orean]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

I'll also mention this, since the arguments of the purchase/donation denotations seem to be bringing legal discussions into play: non-profit projects are technically allowed to directly sell goods and services. An organization is technically allowed to sell products/services, as long as the revenue is not used for any purpose beyond being invested into the organization that promoted it (PWO in this context).

Thus, regardless of defining it as a purchase or donation, which has been addressed throughout the discussion already, the money invested into the project does not debunk its legal status as a non-profit project.

 

[Bluerise]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

it costs around 100$ (and this is me being generous) to host the server per month

Going based on previous information given, that does not cover the cost of 1 of our servers.

Also fyi any donations made to Paypal, we don't get 100% of.

 

[CheckeredZebra]

Re: For those who think you "Purchase" and not "Donate" for

I did a lot of math involving the information I had available, and have noticed that half of the money donated gets eaten by various transaction fees and doesn't even touch PWO.

Nonetheless, regardless of how some people view PWO donations, all players that have made a transaction will be treated as if they have donated. It bothers me that this is stated literally everywhere and people are surprised/get really rude when the transactions are treated the way staff said they would be. This game is non-profit, donations just keep things running for players and staff.