Dragonite and Multiscale

[I.Am]

Please explain how Dragonite would be "crap" without Multiscale. It wasn't "crap" before the ability was added, and that was before Earthquake TM was released and before Dragonite could learn Extremespeed via the egg move tutor. Without Multiscale, it wouldn't be nearly as powerful as it is now, but it would still be very useful.

Well take Kingdra vs Dragonite (Full HP) for an example :

- With Multiscale ability Dragonite able to use 1 DD and then OHKO Kingdra on next turn with Outrage.

- Without Multiscale ability Kingdra OHKO Dragonite with Ice beam. ( or 1-10 Hp if Max HP & Sdef Dragonite, i dont know my Maths is bad anyway but usually 99.9% Kingdra OHKO Dragonite with Ice Beam )


But i agreed with everything you said above.

 

[Nikola]

I think the problem with giving Dragonite its Hidden Ability, Multiscale, is that this doesn't follow the "rule" that all of the other abilities are expected to follow. Each Pokemon is given their "first" ability. In this case, Dragonite's first ability would be Inner Focus.

In PWO yes, because it's limited on one at some point but it was proven that more then one ability per Pokemon can work. You would only have client showing one but that doesn't mean you can't have more then one ability per pokemon being able to have it. If you are stupid enough to follow PWO trends rather then trends of proper and fully working battle engine you sure deserve a medal. You have to aim for more updates and betterment.

What hof and other people pointed out it does make sense but that Dragonite is OP..ermmm don't think so, it's super easy to counter it. I personally have more issues with Mamoswine and Gengar then any other Pokemon. Plus you have that broken priority system so you can see iceshard going before Extremespeed which is fatal. For IRC cavalry, do you claim that Dragonite is OP because other people said it so or you just think it is?

Dragonite needs fully working Outrage where power is being restored to 120. Once that is done you want to introduce hazards, phazing moves and at least prankster ability. To let other Pokemon to be used who can counter Dragon Pokemon easily you want to introduce fairy type with fairy type moves and map them with the Pokemon. Actually, this post wouldn't be here if you already have updates I said above. It's just PWO is like stuck with certain updates, especially those ones you need new client to work or updates where you need to discuss. Getting new client would be actually easier then staff discussing about vital battle updates. Staff can only do updates they see on bulbapedia or what they hear from you people so don't tell them wrong things. You have to understand that staff aren't battlers and they don't have enough knowledge about how Pokemon battle is supposed to work. This might change very soon however. So yeah, in this case they will usually go based on what you gave input about or whats on bulbapedia. It's good to give suggestions and want game to move on but removing things isn't really solution. System can be looked into and give it proper purpose rather than having it 50% working. Wow, multiscale ingame!? lets remove it completely it's too advanced for us to have it! < You don't want that..you want something like > Wow, Multiscale ingame, but it appears that it's distribution isnt working as itended, how about we fix the system?.

If you are to do these updates above you are instantly making yourself to update whole thing into generation 6. That is a good thing however...because there will be a need to balance other things which can only be found in generation 6. It's making you to update more and more. But don't forget about distribution of abiltites and natures for Pokemon that are already ingame. Distributing those will be rather problematic.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

It's good to give suggestions and want game to move on but removing things isn't really solution. System can be looked into and give it proper purpose rather than having it 50% working. Wow, multiscale ingame!? lets remove it completely it's too advanced for us to have it! < You don't want that..you want something like > Wow, Multiscale ingame, but it appears that it's distribution isnt working as itended, how about we fix the system?

I'm in agreement. I don't see how a pokemon that's actually working properly minus one move, could be considered OP. If slaking was rampant and switching was accepted, even with traunt people might call it OP, but it's ridiculous to consider a fully working pokemon OP. We need major/minor status ailments, and properly working outrage. We need stealth rock, and other hazards, phazing and haze. Why are we focusing on making a pokemon more broken that can easily be countered? Show me a situation where Cloyster lost to Dragonite where someone did damage to Drago before hand, please.

Speaking of cloyster that's another pokemon that is hard to beat when boosted, only a few can tank rock blast x5 after shell smash. Why is no one calling cloyster OP and asking for shell smash removal? Because it doesn't have as many things it can boost on. Carry things with status moves like thunder wave or will o wisp. Make sure to damage it half way to make room for ice shard next pokemon. If you can't form a strategy for a pokemon that's on everyone's team there's something wrong here.

 

[Pretentious]

Darcia,

Everyone is in agreement that they want a perfectly working battle system comparable to the handhelds. That's obvious. I wasn't trying to convey the message that I believe each Pokemon should only have one ability. The point I was trying to make is that on the way to making a perfect battle system, staff should be consistent with the ways in which they're doing it. And that's what they're trying to do.

Introducing a fully-functional battle system is optimal, but this goes back to the other question: "what should happen first?" Since they introduced Truant, staff began addressing the abilities issue. I know Multiscale was introduced prior to that, but by making exceptions to rules that are defined by the team, you're just promoting inequality.

I'm in total agreement with your discussion about implementing multiple abilities and natures and how that will affect already owned Pokemon. This original question, along with others, is just trying to determine a plan for what should happen. As you also mentioned, I agree that anyone who would want this current situation as a permanent solution does deserve a medal. We all want the same end result, but unless I'm mistaken, they're asking for input on the steps they should take to get there.

 

[KaiReborn]

Right so question, does breeding render the concept of hidden abilities basically useless in the handhelds? You can just breed a Dragonite with multiscale and get another one with multiscale correct? If this is the case, what is the problem with all Dragonites having it, as they would in any competitive battling in the handhelds? (note: this is not me showing a bias towards pro-Dragonite, I'm merely asking something that I've heard asked by others outside of this topic)

With the addition of Hazards, phasing, taunt, and some other beneficial abilities, would the situation be practically resolved? I hear some of you that think that removal would be an unnecessary step back, where we should be moving forward, but my question would be is the situation severe enough, and frustrating enough to warrant removal of it's ability entirely instead of balancing the system?

What other abilities could be added in game to try to reduce the power of the current Dragonite? If outrage was 100% working, would it be a benefit, or a plague to Dragonite? Would fully functioning major and minor status ailments, coupled with fully functioning Outrage be enough to allow some time until hazards and phasing can be implemented?

Considering how easy it is to breed for a certain ability, an hidden ability isn't as 'special' as some make it seem to be (that is only an issue with pokemon that have their ha unreleased at this point).

In a way, it could be mitigated. In the end it would have to depend on how willing players would be to take those new elements and make them part of their strategy.

There aren't any abilities that could counter multiscale. What exists is an amount of abilities (either not the first ones on the list or hiden abilities) that could indirectly provide some pokemon with better tools to use in battle. Outrage being fixed would be a bit of a double edged blade. It all depends on the measures someone takes to deal with that. If even with outrage fixed the issue is too prevalent then my suggestion would be to add fairy type to the mix as that would completely stop a dragonite that is locked into outrage. Major and minor status ailments could also help (and on that regard I'd like to suggest taunt be made a minor status ailment if such is possible) but the main benefit from it would come from the fact a paralyzed dragonite could be confused by fully working outrage without a status overwriting the other

 

[The-Predator]

I can think of at least few reasons why multiscale should not be ingame,
Dragonite was already a popular battler before tms and abilities
Many other pokemon doesnt have not even 1 ability ingame, why dragonite should be different and/or favourited if its a pseudo-legendary already?
As HOF69 said dragonite its impossible to defeat/stop it if you are not having multiple ice shard/thunder wave users in your team, which limits battles to be even less creative/fun of what they were.

Adding phazing moves and entry hazards would help, yes (not like they are coming soon so meh)

Move Haze would not help at all
A removal of multiscale ability is needed but you should give the inner focus ability back to it

 

[Sabo]

So instead of fixing other moves you decided to nerf again. Even though I see only few people replying that drago is "op" with multiscale. And some of them said it cause they must say it. From horse on the donkey ******* pwo and there logic . ahahahahah.. One step forwards, 2 steps back!

 

[HitmonFonty]

All pokemon will now be given only their first ability where that pokemon has more than one ability possible. For dragonite that is Inner Focus and has now been changed from Multiscale. When the new client is completed we will have the opportunity to work on multiple abilities and fix more moves that the current client has more restrictive. So when multiscale returns there should be no question of it being overpowered.

 

[HOF69]

All pokemon will now be given only their first ability where that pokemon has more than one ability possible. For dragonite that is Inner Focus and has now been changed from Multiscale. When the new client is completed we will have the opportunity to work on multiple abilities and fix more moves that the current client has more restrictive. So when multiscale returns there should be no question of it being overpowered.

Sounds good to me. Thanks!

 

[KeyboardWarrior]

Excuse me, former DEV Shane here..

I am sick to death of you all blaming, and lying to your players about all things fixing or adding related.
"It is not possible with the current client to have multiple abilities on the same pokemon"

This is absolute rubbish, and abilities have nothing to do with the Client.
Before you spout rubbish talk, like you all have over the last years, get an idea.
Your "ADMINS" have no idea how the game works.

So simply put, Abilities are all server related, nothing to do with client. And can be done quite easily.

 

[HitmonFonty]

Excuse me, former DEV Shane here..

I am sick to death of you all blaming, and lying to your players about all things fixing or adding related.
"It is not possible with the current client to have multiple abilities on the same pokemon"

This is absolute rubbish, and abilities have nothing to do with the Client.
Before you spout rubbish talk, like you all have over the last years, get an idea.
Your "ADMINS" have no idea how the game works.

So simply put, Abilities are all server related, nothing to do with client. And can be done quite easily.

I'm sure you're exactly right in what you say, but currently we have no server DEV to make these things work fully or easily, so we continue on the best we can with what we have. It was not my intention to blame the current client, only to make it clear that having a freer hand with the new client will remove some restrictions we have had up until now. If I am mistaken in anything I say it is unintentional certainly not deliberate lying.