Banning System Little Unfair

[GasaiYuno]

This is solely my own opinion and others who have been banned for A) lack of proof B) Someone using the same IP C) Double client D) Botting

I find that PWO is pretty harsh when it comes to banning players, It saves Perm and IP bans for botters well Insults are given minor bans. As I feel there should be perm bans BUT not given out first thing the player should be given a warning like a week ban and if they follow the same path they were then a perm should be given. And I find that Appealing for a ban is just a waste of time for the banned player NO-ONE ever gets unbanned unless it was a mistake on the GMs part.
Most MMOs give warning then perm but then the appeals are worth putting time into with a chance to be unbanned well I'm not saying appealing for a perm banned on PWO is meaningless just a waste of time as in LITTLE info is given to the banned player and Almost nothing is done about it. Another topic is Double client I feel two people sharing an IP can both play the game freely and not both be banned and IP banned, When I was banned for "Botting" And Sharing an IP as another player "My brother at the time" All that was done for me was "You know what you done none shall be unbanned nor IP lifted".


I don't own PWO nor Wish to own this mess of a game, Simply giving info that GMs , DEVs , Owner should know.
Then again I don't think anything will be done (Like in my case) and this topic will most likely will be deleted

 

[Bluerise]

Moved to General PWO Talk - may post back later.

 

[Zywa-Torpeda]

In my opinion, if you use non permited program e.g. bots, hacks, you break the game rules, which you accepted before entering the PWO world, so you were aware of breaking the rules, plus you are getting adventage over legal users of the game, which is unfair (getting unfair pokes, money etc.). So i'd say no, for temp bans for botting, if there are certain proofs of it. If there is unclear situation about using ilegal programs, then temp bans can be used, for working out the situation. If the proofs says that someone is guilty, he probably is. I saw many posts about "pls unban me" whithout providing any proof, that someone is telling the truth.

As for the ip bans, it can be a problem, when you share ip address with someone, and you get IP ban becose of him, but what else can be done, whene some people gets perm ban on one account, then creates another and still breaks the rules, etc. Then the only way to stopp those kind of players are ip bans. But yes, it must be frustrating, if your ip gets ban becouse of someone else... the only way is changing ip, nothing else.

 

[Orean]

As I feel there should be perm bans BUT not given out first thing the player should be given a warning like a week ban and if they follow the same path they were then a perm should be given.

For which breed of offenses would you suggest are better treated with lower-degree punishments, instead of an outright permanent ban, for first offenses?

The rationale for banning accounts for the severity of the offense, totality of circumstances (there may be mitigating and aggravating elements in a bannable offense), and the user's account history. While it's a rationale that the GM staff ideally likes to adhere to for decision-making, the administration has also found it worthwhile to re-examine the policies and punishment tendencies (hence the creation of this topic a little while ago), thus they would like to hear your input on where to re-evaluate the banning policies as well.

Another topic is Double client I feel two people sharing an IP can both play the game freely and not both be banned and IP banned, When I was banned for "Botting" And Sharing an IP as another player "My brother at the time" All that was done for me was "You know what you done none shall be unbanned nor IP lifted".

How would you suggest treating separate users in the same household separably for actions on an IP that have landed an IP-ban warrant? While it may seem unfair that all users on an IP are held liable for actions perpetrated by the IP, it has been done because it hasn't been technically feasible to verifiably identify different users on the same IP. Do you believe the IP-banning approach in itself should be re-evaluated too?

 

[Bluerise]

A) lack of proof B) Someone using the same IP C) Double client D) Botting

For A - you'll need to expand.
For B - we don't ban for another account being on the same IP.

I find that PWO is pretty harsh when it comes to banning players, It saves Perm and IP bans for botters well

Originally this was IP bans only, this was revised to perm ban then IP ban if it becomes a reoccurring case.

Insults are given minor bans.

They are unless once again it becomes a reoccurring case.

And I find that Appealing for a ban is just a waste of time for the banned player NO-ONE ever gets unbanned unless it was a mistake on the GMs part.

A few players have been unbanned in the past.

Another topic is Double client I feel two people sharing an IP can both play the game freely and not both be banned and IP banned

I think you misunderstood what we refer to as double clienting. It is the case of when two or more of your accounts appear to be running from the same IP. Of course if another one of your accounts is online from a different IP, that is considered account sharing instead.

When I was banned for "Botting" And Sharing an IP as another player "My brother at the time" All that was done for me was "You know what you done none shall be unbanned nor IP lifted".

Link?

 

[GasaiYuno]

As I feel there should be perm bans BUT not given out first thing the player should be given a warning like a week ban and if they follow the same path they were then a perm should be given.

For which breed of offenses would you suggest are better treated with lower-degree punishments, instead of an outright permanent ban, for first offenses?

The rationale for banning accounts for the severity of the offense, totality of circumstances (there may be mitigating and aggravating elements in a bannable offense), and the user's account history. While it's a rationale that the GM staff ideally likes to adhere to for decision-making, the administration has also found it worthwhile to re-examine the policies and punishment tendencies (hence the creation of this topic a little while ago), thus they would like to hear your input on where to re-evaluate the banning policies as well.

Another topic is Double client I feel two people sharing an IP can both play the game freely and not both be banned and IP banned, When I was banned for "Botting" And Sharing an IP as another player "My brother at the time" All that was done for me was "You know what you done none shall be unbanned nor IP lifted".

How would you suggest treating separate users in the same household separably for actions on an IP that have landed an IP-ban warrant? While it may seem unfair that all users on an IP are held liable for actions perpetrated by the IP, it has been done because it hasn't been technically feasible to verifiably identify different users on the same IP. Do you believe the IP-banning approach in itself should be re-evaluated too?

Then again i dont own or need be faced with questions like so but with IP bans its a sticky subject, I believe it should be re-evaluated to banning the computers IP instead of A network IP, Then again i feel that harsh bans keep a server in check while to harsh bans inrage players ( guessing the attacks on PWO were becuase of things of this nature). In my own opinion there should be a warning ban saying we know your botting keeping doing act like so will result in a Perm ban and need so an IP banning the computer from being able to play on PWO servers or open the game itself.

And another opinion of mine not being able to buy accounts or pokemon with real life money, i think it shouldnt be a rule or maybe even help PWO with income making a place on the playerdex where you can sell / buy accounts and pokemon with money ( not token store) with a tax going to PWO itself.

 

[GasaiYuno]

In my opinion, if you use non permited program e.g. bots, hacks, you break the game rules, which you accepted before entering the PWO world, so you were aware of breaking the rules, plus you are getting adventage over legal users of the game, which is unfair (getting unfair pokes, money etc.). So i'd say no, for temp bans for botting, if there are certain proofs of it. If there is unclear situation about using ilegal programs, then temp bans can be used, for working out the situation. If the proofs says that someone is guilty, he probably is. I saw many posts about "pls unban me" whithout providing any proof, that someone is telling the truth.

As for the ip bans, it can be a problem, when you share ip address with someone, and you get IP ban becose of him, but what else can be done, whene some people gets perm ban on one account, then creates another and still breaks the rules, etc. Then the only way to stopp those kind of players are ip bans. But yes, it must be frustrating, if your ip gets ban becouse of someone else... the only way is changing ip, nothing else.

Yes i think it gives an unfair adventage over legit players , but i believe there should be some warning going from a temp ban to a warning ingame but by doing so who knows if they will stop or will keep doing so but then when a warning is given out a the player should be moved to a list to " Watching" so GMs know to watch the player close and follow up with a Perm ban if they keep botting. Then again in real life you cant kill someone and then ask for a warning to not do it again, that just wont happen but in miror cases like Botting in an online game i think its nothing to far from giving a fair warning to a player, Tho you can argue you are given a warning by argeeing to rules and conditions so this can go both ways but in most online games give a player a warning even after that.

 

[GawertyXL]

I'd just like to point out, I was banned on one of my accounts for account sharing in 2011, I didn't know about the rule due to myself not reading the rule. I was banned on my main account as a reprimand and the account shared was banned permanently, my main account was unbanned within two weeks. I never brought forth the topic of the banned account until about a year and a half later, I appealed and got the account unbanned. The system isn't all bad, I don't know exactly what determines who gets unbanned or why. I just think proving your case, or being mature about it, brings you a better chance of being unbanned, instead of blatantly lying to those who have the power to validate the truth of what you say. Being mature about a situation brings you a long way.

 

[Julio~]

Yes i think it gives an unfair adventage over legit players , but i believe there should be some warning going from a temp ban to a warning ingame but by doing so who knows if they will stop or will keep doing so but then when a warning is given out a the player should be moved to a list to " Watching" so GMs know to watch the player close and follow up with a Perm ban if they keep botting.

This is a so bad idea from my view. Definitely NO for this. Players would be encouraged to use bots once they know that their accounts won't get permanent banned, then they can use bot and get many pokémons, shiny, etc... they'll be sure they won't lose nothing. Permanent bans are the best solution, at least at the moment.

 

[LordBelemuel]

I'm going to put my thoughts into this topic.

IMO, the system isn't harsh at all; and iirc when you make a account you agree to the rules of the game. Thus, meaning if you broke a rule such as botting or etc then you will receive the appropriate punishment.

Mainly majority of the time people don't read the rules and wonder why they were banned for "X" reason. But, people never learn it seems and will try and try again only to get the same result of being punished or banned.

 

[Orean]

Then again i dont own or need be faced with questions like so

I was not trying to insinuate that you should be treated as if you're the owner game, in regards to prying about how to reproach the system, but if discontentment is voiced over something — it can be understood that there is, in this case — then it helps to know, in a more detailed fashion, on what changes a player would like to see in refining it. That's partly how corrective changes are made to a system, starting with identifying the problem: having utmost insight into why players find a system flawed, to change it in a fashion that resolves the problem.

In my own opinion there should be a warning ban saying we know your botting keeping doing act like so will result in a Perm ban and need so an IP banning the computer from being able to play on PWO servers or open the game itself.

Yes i think it gives an unfair adventage over legit players , but i believe there should be some warning going from a temp ban to a warning ingame but by doing so who knows if they will stop or will keep doing so but then when a warning is given out a the player should be moved to a list to " Watching" so GMs know to watch the player close and follow up with a Perm ban if they keep botting. Then again in real life you cant kill someone and then ask for a warning to not do it again, that just wont happen but in miror cases like Botting in an online game i think its nothing to far from giving a fair warning to a player, Tho you can argue you are given a warning by argeeing to rules and conditions so this can go both ways but in most online games give a player a warning even after that.

From this, it can be understood that you opine players are unaware of the possibility of ending up permanently banned for botting, if you believe warnings are needed (which would be what they are conducive for); correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Tendou]

Wifi sharing isnt a bannable offense. If you use it and let, by example, 5 people join the game with you using your wifi connection thats not a bannable offense like Bluerise said, however, if you take advantage of that it turns into a bannable offense cause you arent using the wifi connection for fun purposes. Thats my opinion.

 

[Siauwlong]

Before you play this game, did you even read the rules at all? Botting is simply prohibited, end of story, once you do that you will get ban. I'm wondering are the new players aware of this rule at all. It's your fault if you don't read the rules first before playing this game, and I'm 100% sure most of players won't bother to read the rules and ended up getting banned. The excuses I've seen the most are "Sory, I no speak english real good" , for Christ's sake , if you want to play this game then learn some English :S

In my own HONEST OPINION, the Admin and GM are TOO NICE, they still let you post your complain in ban appeal section. It's really funny to read a post in Ban Appeal saying I'm using bot and please unban my account. Even the GM team still reply to all of your whining even though they see you clearly using bot, and you should be grateful for it. I'm sure the GM team never ban someone without clear evidence, and just giving the banhammer like russian roulette to the players. If you get banned, then the GM team have a solid proof about it, don't be such a crybaby and get over it.

 

[Boora]

harro , its been a while, my two cents mrrr,

its partly true, i do not agree that botters deserve a perm ban, i dont believe i even have to explain, you hacked, you're gone.
but when it comes to double clienters(first time or just to xfer something , you know minor stuff)
or to people who didnt make thier own account , stuff like that shouldn't resault in permanent ban, it just shouldn't , a warning, a temp ban, but not perm
i wont name names, but most of us know how a player admited that his friend created his account years ago in a tottal innocent way on an irc channel and a gm that was there passed it along and the person got banned, i find it wrong, just wrong. statue of limitation? first offense ? he didn't even know he did something wrong,
and after all of that from what i remember the staff wouldn't xfer his pokes to a new account. explain to me how this is right, but like a person not a robot "rules rules blabla" and that's just one example from many many that i can think off.

short version
hackers-perm ban
innocent mistakes or mistakes that happen 1year ago+ just let it slide or punish but not in an extream way.

 

[nemo55]

harro , its been a while, my two cents mrrr,

its partly true, i do not agree that botters deserve a perm ban, i dont believe i even have to explain, you hacked, you're gone.
but when it comes to double clienters(first time or just to xfer something , you know minor stuff)
or to people who didnt make thier own account , stuff like that shouldn't resault in permanent ban, it just shouldn't , a warning, a temp ban, but not perm
i wont name names, but most of us know how a player admited that his friend created his account years ago in a tottal innocent way on an irc channel and a gm that was there passed it along and the person got banned, i find it wrong, just wrong. statue of limitation? first offense ? he didn't even know he did something wrong,
and after all of that from what i remember the staff wouldn't xfer his pokes to a new account. explain to me how this is right, but like a person not a robot "rules rules blabla" and that's just one example from many many that i can think off.

short version
hackers-perm ban
innocent mistakes or mistakes that happen 1year ago+ just let it slide or punish but not in an extream way.

Yeah, I remember when I just started PWO my friend introduced me to this game back in 2011 or early stages of 2012. I played on one of his alt accounts being absolutely clueless if it was illegal or not haha. I lost this account from one of the updates where you had to refer to email in which was forgotten by my friend. Recently I get messaged by a GM in regards to my connection with this particular person...now I'm just imagining, what IF I still had this alt account of my friends which was basically only mine since passed on. Would I get Perma Banned ?!? LOL I would definitely see the harshness in that...

 

[Nikola]

The system is ok for me, maybe a little more time is being spent with people who are actually breaking the rules then with a players having no record. I am totally against lowering punishments for any sort of botting, speedhacking and using 3rd party software or doing some workarounds rather then perma banning them. That would be huge slap in a face for people who are playing fairly. Not feeling serious consequences they will turn bad eventually. Why afford that risk? That is the way how it goes in every society. There are no saints here. Doesn't matter if there will be 50 people online just because bots and scammers are not welcome. At least you will know that you were doing a good thing. You will have no doubts. Only thing I would possibly do is to "advertise" the rules more often. Ingame and when you are a making a new account. We all know that most of the people who comes here cant read what is really sad.

I wouldn't mind if people are giving away their account if they met certain criteria. Maybe this can be revised in near future via playerdex. If you are giving away your account you have to fill certain form and account will be submitted to a name change. I wouldn't allow giving away account more then once (per owner), but original owner can claim it after x days/months or w/e. The way how you look at it this can also be some sort of a warning because they would be previously warned of what might happen. Perma bans would apply for those ones who never bothered to submit the form before they gave away the account. You cant jump on someones wife like that. Divorce, do paper work and there you go. That is the idea I came up with. Can't think of anything else at the moment.

 

[Dragon16]

there is a discussion about the severity of some of the bans in this thread:
http://forum.pokemon-world-online.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30832

 

[Grchw]

Show me the game, where you get warning for cheating. And where accounts connected to cheaters account are not getting banned.