Unfair ...

[CrimsonSapphire]

Recently someone just got scammed for 100m+ So i was wondering why cannot return the money back to its owner because its unfair ~_~ the scammer got banned but still he can change ip and do it again until he succeed. Player that got scammed lose 100m and just have to smile.

Why not gm use the banned player just to returned the money to owner ? Its possible right because the database store our email and password.

Please do something about this scamming thing. Now im afraid to trade for good poke that worth millions because of this glitch abused :-\

 

[Naero]

I believe that GMs do not have the tools needed to retrieve Pokemoney from the perpetrator's account, sadly; and I believe their policies prohibit them from spawning pokemoney onto the victim's account. Otherwise, it's plausible to assume that scam victims would be reimbursed for lost pokemoney, in a similar manner as they do for returning scammed Pokemon.

If pokemon-to-pokemoney exchanges are the only negotiable option, I would approach the trade with utmost caution. Stat-scams, due to the contingency of Pokemon with outdated stats displayed in the trade window, are what I would be more wary about than most potential scams. It has been advised that if you are arranging a trade with someone, who you suspect as a potential stat scammer, you should request them to relog, which should resync the actual stats, as to-be displayed in the trade window.

Aside from that protip, it's always best to generally stay on your toes to avoid being victimized by other types of scams.

 

[ShiroyoOchigano]

I would advice you to trade with only player who have a good reputation, are very active and known by many players. Trading with strangers always holds a risk.

 

[Bluerise]

You use to get nothing, now at least you stand a chance of getting a pokemon (of which at times is level 99 and shiny) so stop being so damn ungrateful.

 

[RevengeOfTheWaterBottle]

I know staff work hard, but half of the returns I've seen involve level 12 psyducks. The rewards almost never justify the loss.

As hard as you (staff) work, you have to realize you all have created a faulty system with token trading, and cannot maintain/manage it. It is flawed and despite the player's best efforts, they tend to get the short stick. Even if they have all the evidence they could get a level 50 pidgeot for a 4mil loss, which isn't even close.

So "damn ungrateful?" Not quite. You might not be able to fix it immediately, or might not have the tools, or it's not really your fault but you do your best etc, the situation remains.

The system is unfair. Now if it's uncalled for to kindly ask people to politely deal with it is another manner.

 

[Boora]

I know staff work hard, but half of the returns I've seen involve level 12 psyducks. The rewards almost never justify the loss.

As hard as you (staff) work, you have to realize you all have created a faulty system with token trading, and cannot maintain/manage it. It is flawed and despite the player's best efforts, they tend to get the short stick. Even if they have all the evidence they could get a level 50 pidgeot for a 4mil loss, which isn't even close.

So "damn ungrateful?" Not quite. You might not be able to fix it immediately, or might not have the tools, or it's not really your fault but you do your best etc, the situation remains.

The system is unfair. Now if it's uncalled for to kindly ask people to politely deal with it is another manner.

hey hey, Calm down.
yes, you should be grateful that you're getting something, if someone got scammed, its sad, but its his own fault, most games will do nothing
here at least you get the attention of a GM/Admin, get the guy Banned, AND get a compensation, granted, sometimes its not even close to what you lost,
but its something.
and one more thing, when it comes to pokemon scams, you'll always get your poke back if you have enough evidence,
so how dare you complain that its not enough, you cant be as reckless as you want in the game and say to yourself "its ok i'l take the risk there's always a gm to givem e back my stuff "
get real.

 

[CrimsonSapphire]

and one more thing, when it comes to pokemon scams, you'll always get your poke back if you have enough evidence,
so how dare you complain that its not enough,

If other player bought the poke from the scammer, gm cant return the poke because other plyer bought it legally

 

[Jhaxion]

There was a time when players got absolutly nothing for being scammed as Bluerise stated. As members of this community we all need to use better judgement when trading. If common sense tells you that the trade is too good to be true,it most likely is. There will always be scammers in this game because its a mmo. There are only a few instances that I can recount where a scammed/cheated player recieved everything back they lost in a scam. Now if you where hacked that's a different story. IMO there will never be a system in place where the victim will receive equal value for they're lost items.

 

[Boora]

and one more thing, when it comes to pokemon scams, you'll always get your poke back if you have enough evidence,
so how dare you complain that its not enough,

If other player bought the poke from the scammer, gm cant return the poke because other plyer bought it legally

true, but i thought it was too obvious to mention , guess not.... how would you feel if a gm took your pokemon cause it was bought from a scammer ?
case in point.

 

[CrimsonSapphire]

and one more thing, when it comes to pokemon scams, you'll always get your poke back if you have enough evidence,
so how dare you complain that its not enough,

If other player bought the poke from the scammer, gm cant return the poke because other plyer bought it legally

true, but i thought it was too obvious to mention , guess not.... how would you feel if a gm took your pokemon cause it was bought from a scammer ?
case in point.

Yes thats what im saying. Even you got evidence you wont get your poke back. You dont have to repeat it. No point
Example >http://forum.pokemonworldonline.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=20461

 

[RevengeOfTheWaterBottle]

hey hey, Calm down.
yes, you should be grateful that you're getting something, if someone got scammed, its sad, but its his own fault, most games will do nothing
here at least you get the attention of a GM/Admin, get the guy Banned, AND get a compensation, granted, sometimes its not even close to what you lost,
but its something.
and one more thing, when it comes to pokemon scams, you'll always get your poke back if you have enough evidence,
so how dare you complain that its not enough, you cant be as reckless as you want in the game and say to yourself "its ok i'l take the risk there's always a gm to givem e back my stuff "
get real.

Hey, where was I not calm? I've been pointing out the flaws of the system in a logical, to-the-point manner.

The system is unsafe and leads to scams. That is because somebody in staff did not foolproof it correctly; why can't tokens be represented as an ingame item? Would that not make everything much safer? Are there not better alternatives? Now, that does not mean I'm saying "oh staff suck, they didn't even make tokens an item."

But it does mean people will exploit the system and abuse other players through it. There are always methods to exploit a game, yes, but some of the methods in PWO are so blatantly obvious that it makes it implausible to compare this game with others.

Also, in some cases, it is not the victim's fault. Have you seen the trade exploit where people can alter their pokemon's stats to look uber on the trade window?
Despite taking evidence and double checking, they can easily be scammed through this. You can also check the Community Watch or Ban Appeals sections, but even then a player could be a scammer's first victim...or previous victims didn't bother to report the scammer. Or the scammer has a new account under a different name.

You also don't always get your pokemon back, as somebody else mentioned, but I'm not entirely focusing on pokemon trades.
I'm talking about money trades and the fact that money cannot be returned. Certainly other games don't even bother with scams, yes. But if it has been DECIDED and ENFORCED that GMs manage scams, why don't they have the tools to actually manage scams? Would you not agree that is a crucial tool that they are lacking?

I do not mind the policy that states GMs cannot return objects that have been traded away. That is fair enough. However, what if the money was still there? Nobody could do anything about it.
If the money is there, it would not hurt anyone for it to be returned.

At the same time....
Italics:
When did I say "it's not enough?" I simply pointed out that the situation actually is unfair for players often enough, due to the system lacking pieces to make it reliable or safe. Do I think staff are lame/aren't doing enough? No. Do I think the staff are unskilled? No. Do I actually have an emotional side in this argument? No! I'm pointing out flaws in the most fair manner I can. Is there something wrong with speaking my mind and trying to improve PWO instead of going ignoring the problem?

 

[Merse]

Too bad you didn't apply to fix the program glitches. Or work smells bad to you? It's always very easy to criticize other people's work. But you have not the slightest idea about how to make a hacksafe program, or if you have, then you were lazy and didn't apply to help to fix this issues, which is even worse.
So how do you dare to criticize the devs, who made this game in their free time, for no money whatsoever?!
Go, learn some basic programing then come back when you made something even remotely similar in complexity to PWO, then you MAY start criticize the developers in this style.

Personally I'm satisfied with the compensation method. It's not 100% perfect, but usually the victim gets one or multiple Pokes with a total value equivalent to the amount he lost.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

they certainly have the ability, they have done money transfers for corrupted accounts I believe...just not scams.

 

[RevengeOfTheWaterBottle]

Too bad you didn't apply to fix the program glitches. Or work smells bad to you? It's always very easy to criticize other people's work. But you have not the slightest idea about how to make a hacksafe program, or if you have, then you were lazy and didn't apply to help to fix this issues, which is even worse.
So how do you dare to criticize the devs, who made this game in their free time, for no money whatsoever?!
Go, learn some basic programing then come back when you made something even remotely similar in complexity to PWO, then you MAY start criticize the developers in this style.

Personally I'm satisfied with the compensation method. It's not 100% perfect, but usually the victim gets one or multiple Pokes with a total value equivalent to the amount he lost.

At least I'm not completely denying there is a problem and am trying to find out how to fix it. Here is currently how I'm viewing this topic:

Dex: "Hey guys your system isn't working that well! I'm worried about the trading system."
Others: "You whiney person, deal with it!"
Me: "No but really, there is a problem with this."
You/Others: "You lazy, ungrateful a-hole."

I mean, damn. I didn't insult anyone. I didn't call anyone lazy, or selfish, or unskilled. I was calmly making my point and even said as clearly as possible I wasn't trying to attack anyone. There is a problem and that the way the problem is being handled isn't efficient. Dex and I weren't even attacking the staff, unlike many bad "suggestion" topics I see around here.

And are we not here to Beta test and give our opinion? Why is it so bad that I'm giving input when that is exactly what we should be doing? Yes, HOW DARE I give the staff my level-headed observation like I'm supposed to.

Obviously "work smells bad to me" because I'm taking the time and effort to explain flaws and find a solution for them. Obviously my time spent in the game trying to understand and improve the system is me being lazy.

When was I rude to you people? Was Dex rude to you people? Dex brought up the issue nicely enough and within reason.
And yet Dex was immediately responded to in a spiteful manner.I have been insulted four times (at the least, I'm not even considering overall attitude of posts) in this topic, despite not saying anything that should be taken as rude.

Instead of a legitimate discussion that could discuss improvements/fixes for the system, I got 3/4ths of a post insulting me and not a single point of mine was legitimately debated.

 

[Saric]

I know staff work hard, but half of the returns I've seen involve level 12 psyducks. The rewards almost never justify the loss.

As hard as you (staff) work, you have to realize you all have created a faulty system with token trading, and cannot maintain/manage it. It is flawed and despite the player's best efforts, they tend to get the short stick. Even if they have all the evidence they could get a level 50 pidgeot for a 4mil loss, which isn't even close.

So "damn ungrateful?" Not quite. You might not be able to fix it immediately, or might not have the tools, or it's not really your fault but you do your best etc, the situation remains.

The system is unfair. Now if it's uncalled for to kindly ask people to politely deal with it is another manner.

That is why the token system is being redone on the new playerdex. It's assumed to have a more direct way of selling tokens.

 

[Chocobo7]

If you are careful and don't rush into a trade you can avoid almost every scam there is, even the stat scams that are going around should be possible to avoid by asking them to relog before the trade. If people put thought into the trades they make instead of blindly assuming everyone is nice and friendly then it would cut the majority of these issues out.

 

[RevengeOfTheWaterBottle]

That is why the token system is being redone on the new playerdex. It's assumed to have a more direct way of selling tokens.

Yes, I thought I had mentioned that in an earlier post, but now that I scroll up perhaps I accidentally cut it out. I know it was a rumor spreading around, wasn't sure it was confirmed.
My point I've been making is:

There is a problem, and Dex brought up that problem. Instead of stuffing it under a rug like others are apparently happy to do, I'm suggesting they realize there is actually some unfairness with the situation at hand currently.
But no, apparently "STHU noob insult insult" is the only way people reply to such ideas. Well, aside from you and Chocobo, it seems. But it doesn't address the fact that Gms are supposed to deal with scams and don't even have the tools to properly handle them.

 

[psychosamm]

Why are all you guys talking crap to these people? They're just trying to raise an important issue and make a move towards its solution. This topic wasn't raised in a noobish matter like "My monies can't be return halp plox, fix dis bug game" This is certainly a huge issue that's been put aside simply because "It's always been that way, its your fault for not being careful!" When that's really not always the case. And just because people aren't devs and don't understand the intricacies of fixing these bugs doesn't mean that no one can ever raise these issues. Otherwise they would never be looked into, and therefore fixed. The staff do the best they can with what they have available to them, but that doesn't mean we have to ignore the actual issue.
I think another reason why this flaw has hesitated to be fixed is that once they were able to return money, people would come out of the woodwork demanding their money back from scams that happened months or even years ago. And i have a feeling they really don't want to deal with that. I don't blame them for not wanting to deal with it if that is a hidden reason, but this is something that does need to be fixed sooner or later.

 

[Chocobo7]

That is why the token system is being redone on the new playerdex. It's assumed to have a more direct way of selling tokens.

Yes, I thought I had mentioned that in an earlier post, but now that I scroll up perhaps I accidentally cut it out. I know it was a rumor spreading around, wasn't sure it was confirmed.
My point I've been making is:

There is a problem, and Dex brought up that problem. Instead of stuffing it under a rug like others are apparently happy to do, I'm suggesting they realize there is actually some unfairness with the situation at hand currently.
But no, apparently "STHU noob insult insult" is the only way people reply to such ideas. Well, aside from you and Chocobo, it seems. But it doesn't address the fact that Gms are supposed to deal with scams and don't even have the tools to properly handle them.

Can't argue with that last sentence, but this is why its not just players looking forward to the new pdex At this point and even when the playerdex is out, knowledge and common sense will be much better at preventing scams than relying on the GMs to deal with every little thing, so if people thought before trying to buy tokens off a stranger or this 'must have' Shiny from someone thye've never seen before things would go a lot better for everyone.

 

[Nikola]

-It is true that fix is needed for certain things. Most of the bugs you can see in PWO are due to poor client development. You cannot expect anything special with current client and synchronization between client and the server isn't going to be flawless without client update. Current client isn't standing on a solid ground so hardly any update from server will work properly. Hopefully with a new client things may change. Almost every major update is adapting to the client instead those two are on the same level.
-And those things about trade and battle bugs are mostly happening due to client not well synchronized with the server. Even if those are totally fixed they will newer be flawless. People will scam always. That is a risk that every online game which supports trading of internal goods must accept and they will not be flawless. That is a issue at players end and it is up to you how are you going to approach to those things. You must be always informed and careful while doing any trade.