Nikola
Youngster
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2012
- Messages
- 1,762
- Points
- 36
1. Player1 gave/borrowed several Pokemon around to people to battle with and showoff as he barely plays anymore.
2. Player1 needs 10 euros badly and he decides to convert PWO achievements into the money.
3. Player1 Is after stuff he loaned to people in order to increase the chance of selling by having more to offer.
4. Player1 finds number of people he loaned those Pokemon to claim them back.
5. Player1 is desperate to sell so he logs in and starts offering in-game as people from Xat didn't wanted or weren't able.
6. Little bird told me that Player1 ends up being reported to an Admin for attempting to trade for real money by a Player 5 he offered real money trade to.
7. Based on the evidence presented by a Player 5, admin decides to take the action and he bans Player1 and players who had trades with him according to logs.
8. Banned players learned about ban reason and they appeal in order to clean their face.
9. Banned guy waits few days before he gets an answer and weeks more to get another. http://i.imgur.com/bFqAnu5.png and http://i.imgur.com/iiGPiWg.png
10.He is being asked if he has a evidence to backup his story about not being guilty by an admin.
- What do we have here is very common and simple case where you have to use a bit of brains and tracing tools you have on disposal. In order to issue a ban you need to have the evidence and strong enough reason to do so. If you happen not to have the evidence you may want to look for one during appeal process. Only way to obtain one is that people who are involved and charged presents the proper evidence about illegal trade actually taking place with those people who found themselves banned or if person who got involved and banned actually confesses against themselves.
- No court in world would do such decision...maybe Russian one from 40s...but oh well..Main problem here is that evidence against those people does not exists. What exists are the trade logs among other variables to determinate if certain events "may" have happened. However, no tool can prove that real trade actually ever happened. Only evidence that is valid enough is those people obtaining Pokemon from main subject through different periods of time. That is not the measure to determinate if trade happened through trade involving real money. That is only measure to assume and assuming shouldn't be used when banning someone. What happened is that admin asked a guy can he prove his claim while admin itself doesn't have any evidence to proceed with the trial. Only thing admin has here are the trade logs and assumption. Only way for an admin to have proper evidence to proceed with the case is that main subject presents the evidence that those people really bought for real money. However, that is not the case I believe.
- This is why such things are to be given to GMs to carry on. There is a reason why GM is a GM and why admin is an admin. However, scenario wouldn't be a lot different due to being unable to determinate and prove that illegal trade ever took place. GMs doing these things are what they are being trained for. There is a less chance that there will bias around the decision made if a case is being done by a GM. Admin doing these things is just a way to make GMs look useless and inactive and admins aren't reliable when it comes to moderation. As you can see, those bans made are all about bias and assumption. It's not because I know they did nothing, it's because me being able to determinate how much is 2+2.
- There are a lot of irregularities left from back then such as people with limited access and not having access at all. Good example would be Project manager rank, where I obviously see a need for them to have database access or at least limited one in order to do changes such as adding spawns, applying rarity, renaming items and getting rid of old ones. But I guess it's easier to sit in grass 12 hours a day and write down encounters and bad zones instead of applying fix in the database that will take 2 seconds. It's also more important to place capable software engineer to be head of human relations after he trained good number of scripters...why he would be a dev? Because he could be more capable then others having same mindset? because he changes his mood too often? because he often talks about leaving? why he talks about that, that is the main question. Those are not the variables to determinate if someone can be good personnel. Or maybe, he can start editing wiki and befriend the oaf to become a dev one day. I mean, seriously...what the **** you people are doing? Can you sit down for a minute and think rather than acting recklessly? Is this a circus?
- This is why admins should be minimum involved in banning or not involved at all. Not applying this to Jinji. From what I know most of his bans were "case of emergency" and I remember he often passed the report to gms to handle with... and this is how it should be done. Can't apply this to Jinji. However, this is for what I know about.
2. Player1 needs 10 euros badly and he decides to convert PWO achievements into the money.
3. Player1 Is after stuff he loaned to people in order to increase the chance of selling by having more to offer.
4. Player1 finds number of people he loaned those Pokemon to claim them back.
5. Player1 is desperate to sell so he logs in and starts offering in-game as people from Xat didn't wanted or weren't able.
6. Little bird told me that Player1 ends up being reported to an Admin for attempting to trade for real money by a Player 5 he offered real money trade to.
7. Based on the evidence presented by a Player 5, admin decides to take the action and he bans Player1 and players who had trades with him according to logs.
8. Banned players learned about ban reason and they appeal in order to clean their face.
9. Banned guy waits few days before he gets an answer and weeks more to get another. http://i.imgur.com/bFqAnu5.png and http://i.imgur.com/iiGPiWg.png
10.He is being asked if he has a evidence to backup his story about not being guilty by an admin.
- What do we have here is very common and simple case where you have to use a bit of brains and tracing tools you have on disposal. In order to issue a ban you need to have the evidence and strong enough reason to do so. If you happen not to have the evidence you may want to look for one during appeal process. Only way to obtain one is that people who are involved and charged presents the proper evidence about illegal trade actually taking place with those people who found themselves banned or if person who got involved and banned actually confesses against themselves.
- No court in world would do such decision...maybe Russian one from 40s...but oh well..Main problem here is that evidence against those people does not exists. What exists are the trade logs among other variables to determinate if certain events "may" have happened. However, no tool can prove that real trade actually ever happened. Only evidence that is valid enough is those people obtaining Pokemon from main subject through different periods of time. That is not the measure to determinate if trade happened through trade involving real money. That is only measure to assume and assuming shouldn't be used when banning someone. What happened is that admin asked a guy can he prove his claim while admin itself doesn't have any evidence to proceed with the trial. Only thing admin has here are the trade logs and assumption. Only way for an admin to have proper evidence to proceed with the case is that main subject presents the evidence that those people really bought for real money. However, that is not the case I believe.
- This is why such things are to be given to GMs to carry on. There is a reason why GM is a GM and why admin is an admin. However, scenario wouldn't be a lot different due to being unable to determinate and prove that illegal trade ever took place. GMs doing these things are what they are being trained for. There is a less chance that there will bias around the decision made if a case is being done by a GM. Admin doing these things is just a way to make GMs look useless and inactive and admins aren't reliable when it comes to moderation. As you can see, those bans made are all about bias and assumption. It's not because I know they did nothing, it's because me being able to determinate how much is 2+2.
- There are a lot of irregularities left from back then such as people with limited access and not having access at all. Good example would be Project manager rank, where I obviously see a need for them to have database access or at least limited one in order to do changes such as adding spawns, applying rarity, renaming items and getting rid of old ones. But I guess it's easier to sit in grass 12 hours a day and write down encounters and bad zones instead of applying fix in the database that will take 2 seconds. It's also more important to place capable software engineer to be head of human relations after he trained good number of scripters...why he would be a dev? Because he could be more capable then others having same mindset? because he changes his mood too often? because he often talks about leaving? why he talks about that, that is the main question. Those are not the variables to determinate if someone can be good personnel. Or maybe, he can start editing wiki and befriend the oaf to become a dev one day. I mean, seriously...what the **** you people are doing? Can you sit down for a minute and think rather than acting recklessly? Is this a circus?
- This is why admins should be minimum involved in banning or not involved at all. Not applying this to Jinji. From what I know most of his bans were "case of emergency" and I remember he often passed the report to gms to handle with... and this is how it should be done. Can't apply this to Jinji. However, this is for what I know about.