Suggestion to assist newbies starting in Kanto.

[Krysi]

It's quite obvious that the point for this Topic is to whine about losing to Misty. I can see it may upset you that there are people that didn't have much trouble battling Misty, but doesn't that just proves you didn't put enough effort in training your pokemon?

I don't recall saying I lost, in fact...I'm pretty sure I posted that I won a few posts prior. Anyway, keep flaming posts out of my topic please, they're an eyesore and I'm fireproof so such posts are redundant. Next post like this will just flat out be ignored.

 

[GawertyXL]

If i'm being honest, you don't even have to use a grass or electric pokemon to beat misty. they do help, but I can say from experience, everytime I played in Kanto, I went with Charmander, Mankey, and Spearow/Fearow, got all three to 21 and easily beat misty, while yes it can be hard to beat misty, it's not impossible.

 

[Krysi]

If i'm being honest, you don't even have to use a grass or electric pokemon to beat misty. they do help, but I can say from experience, everytime I played in Kanto, I went with Charmander, Mankey, and Spearow/Fearow, got all three to 21 and easily beat misty, while yes it can be hard to beat misty, it's not impossible.

Again, this really isn't the main point of the topic. The original post is more like an example. The main point of the topic is to think of solutions to keep more newcomers from quitting the game when they hardly even started it. More opinions are welcome, but posts saying things like for example: "Misty wasn't that hard, I killed her with my level 50 Charizard." don't really help find a solution that can be agreed on.

 

[SapphirePhoenix]

In addition to any suggestions already posted, I think it would have been helpful for new players to be taught early on that if you evolve a Pokemon here, the amount of exp needed to level up thereafter doubles or triples. In the early areas our normal instinctual goal is to evolve Pokemon so that they are stronger against the opponents, but the wild Pokemon in the beginning give so little exp that we spend hours leveling up things that are at stage 2 (or stage 3 if a person decided to raise and keep a Butterfree or Beedrill).

The exp requirement differences between stages were the most noticeable to me at those early areas (Pallet Town to Cerulean City) and I remember Buterfree in particular being a pain to train because it required so much more exp compared to everything else that was on my team. If I started PWO and was told this exp info right at the beginning I probably would have planned my approach differently to make things less of a "grind fest".

 

[Isguros]

You specifically said you won on your alt-account only after spending more than 40 hours of training (most players with that amount of playing time already have more than 5 badges), which made me think; why would someone raise their pokemon that much to battle a gym leader which has pokemon that aren't that much stronger than those of trainers you previously battled. If it was Brock, I'd get it. other than his starstruck sidekick, the highest leveled pokemon a trainer had you previously encountered was level 5. That's a big difference from his level 16 freaking Onix. But in Misty's case it's a bit different, cause you already could have battled 7 pokemon with a level of 17 (the same level as Misty's Staryu) or higher. It may be even more, cause the wiki doesn't show your "rival" and his pokemon. They only logical explanation I could think of for doing what you did, and then making a forum post about how

she kicks your butt every time you battle her

was that you had a previous altercation with her on your main account (or another alt account) which resulted in a defeat. I'm sorry to have offended you, and I DO believe you meant well, but as far as I know Misty isn't that big of a deal compared to Brock.

 

[Krysi]

most players with that amount of playing time already have more than 5 badges

True, but think about it. You overlevel for Brock and Misty, then the next few gyms are easy as pie...they can be done in minutes, including all the NPC trainers in the routes on the way to each gym. Not much time or effort is needed after Misty, so 5 badges isn't really even a challenge because of how much you had to level your Pokemon for Brock and Misty. So the fact that the time is still about the same from the time you get 2 badges until the time you get 5 isn't really a shock to me.

The point being...I was only trying to point out that Misty and Brock take a lot more effort than the other gyms...and that feels quite odd considering it's supposed to get harder, not easier. The fact that you have to grind for a while right at the start of the game is enough to make quite a bit of new players quit, yet alone losing to a gym leader. It's kind of why seeing someone who is actually new to PWO and decided to stick around is so uncommon...and then even after that, they still might quit because of the lack of things to do after beating the game.

Most of the new characters being made are people who've already played PWO before and basically I'm trying to change that fact.

 

[Arithalon]

It's really pointless to keep talking about who beat Misty. What really should be addressed is the simple fact that this game really is very unwelcoming to players, whether they're new or not to this game. Think about it; how many games are there out there (including MMOs) that actually force a player to grind or struggle to make progress? No, I'm not talking about end-game content either (trust me, if anything, end-game is the one place where it's absolutely fine to put in repetitive content); I'm talking about just off the boat, with absolutely nothing at all. It's really quite rare that you see a generally well-maintained game that would be so unforgiving to it's new players.

That's really the problem overall, in my opinion. It would probably be worth considering what could be done is to take out the unnecessary inconveniences for the first few areas at least; so that players can at least get some idea on what they're doing before the game eats them alive. No, I'm not saying we should do something ridiculous like make it a gravy train; but take into consideration that even in Pokemon Blue (yes, the Game Boy game), the level of a Bellsprout was something like 13-16 when freshly caught from the wild. Yet, last I checked on this game, it's only up to something like level 9(?).

 

[Orean]

It's really pointless to keep talking about who beat Misty. What really should be addressed is the simple fact that this game really is very unwelcoming to players, whether they're new or not to this game. Think about it; how many games are there out there (including MMOs) that actually force a player to grind or struggle to make progress? No, I'm not talking about end-game content either (trust me, if anything, end-game is the one place where it's absolutely fine to put in repetitive content); I'm talking about just off the boat, with absolutely nothing at all. It's really quite rare that you see a generally well-maintained game that would be so unforgiving to it's new players.

That's really the problem overall, in my opinion. It would probably be worth considering what could be done is to take out the unnecessary inconveniences for the first few areas at least; so that players can at least get some idea on what they're doing before the game eats them alive. No, I'm not saying we should do something ridiculous like make it a gravy train; but take into consideration that even in Pokemon Blue (yes, the Game Boy game), the level of a Bellsprout was something like 13-16 when freshly caught from the wild. Yet, last I checked on this game, it's only up to something like level 9(?).

Bold - this is partly where the spawn-reassment project may come into efficacy—by upscaling the Pokemon levels within the area, I am curious to know if it would greatly help to mitigate the tedium players find in leveling up their Pokemon early on.

As previously mentioned, it is not feasibly possible to reformulate the leveling-up formula without a new client, which dictates how much experience is required to gain to reach the next level. Even if the tremendous amount of experience required to train off can't be helped at this point in time, we are considering revising the levels in each area, in addition to revamping the spawns itself; part of the rationale used for this is to consider how viable it is for players to train in the area, thus this feedback will be a factor in re-examining the early areas.

Sidenote: It's also possible to revise the experience-earned formula, if needed, notwithstanding how we can't work with the leveling-up formula. While it was revised last summer, it can be re-examined once again if deemed necessary, to help cater more towards the early-stage training as well.

 

[Merse]

To answer the question: Yes and no.

THe level in teh Viridian Forrest shouldn't be raised otherwise the Pokes of the player would be KOd too easily. So it leaves the Clearing (behind the Old Lady) up for the increased levels. It still would take a relatively long time to get a Butterfree, but once you get to the Clearing, it would make the game much easier and faster if the Pokes there would be 1-2 level higher. They would give much more XP and you could catch a relatively high level grass type which would easily beat both Brock and Misty.

 

[Krysi]

It's really pointless to keep talking about who beat Misty. What really should be addressed is the simple fact that this game really is very unwelcoming to players, whether they're new or not to this game. Think about it; how many games are there out there (including MMOs) that actually force a player to grind or struggle to make progress? No, I'm not talking about end-game content either (trust me, if anything, end-game is the one place where it's absolutely fine to put in repetitive content); I'm talking about just off the boat, with absolutely nothing at all. It's really quite rare that you see a generally well-maintained game that would be so unforgiving to it's new players.

That's really the problem overall, in my opinion. It would probably be worth considering what could be done is to take out the unnecessary inconveniences for the first few areas at least; so that players can at least get some idea on what they're doing before the game eats them alive. No, I'm not saying we should do something ridiculous like make it a gravy train; but take into consideration that even in Pokemon Blue (yes, the Game Boy game), the level of a Bellsprout was something like 13-16 when freshly caught from the wild. Yet, last I checked on this game, it's only up to something like level 9(?).

Thank you Pat for making the point of this topic clear, I really appreciate it.

To answer the question: Yes and no.

THe level in teh Viridian Forrest shouldn't be raised otherwise the Pokes of the player would be KOd too easily. So it leaves the Clearing (behind the Old Lady) up for the increased levels. It still would take a relatively long time to get a Butterfree, but once you get to the Clearing, it would make the game much easier and faster if the Pokes there would be 1-2 level higher. They would give much more XP and you could catch a relatively high level grass type which would easily beat both Brock and Misty.

I agree with the idea, but would 1 or 2 levels truly be enough to make grinding at the beginning of the game quick and easy enough for the newbies to not get frustrated to the point of quitting? I suppose it's possible, but it's a theory that needs to be tested to really get a conclusion. Another thing that concerns me is that since people new to this game tend to base their information off of the actual Pokemon games, it's doubtful that many people would even bother turning left at the entrance of Viridian Forest to spot the Clearing. Perhaps moving this map to be more visible along the typical path newbies take would change that?

 

[Orean]

I agree with the idea, but would 1 or 2 levels truly be enough to make grinding at the beginning of the game quick and easy enough for the newbies to not get frustrated to the point of quitting? I suppose it's possible, but it's a theory that needs to be tested to really get a conclusion.

Part of our spawn-reassessment project will entail a phase of testing any level/spawn-revision changes ourselves, to experientally test how remedial and practical the spawn changes are in a live environment.

Another thing that concerns me is that since people new to this game tend to base their information off of the actual Pokemon games, it's doubtful that many people would even bother turning left at the entrance of Viridian Forest to spot the Clearing. Perhaps moving this map to be more visible along the typical path newbies take would change that?

Based off of my own interactional observations with players, I've noticed that many do not even discover this area, let alone envisage it as a viable training/hunting area against Brock, until they are advised to complete its entry mini-quest to access it.

I believe the initial backstory behind this area was intended for it to be discovered as a "hidden" area" that players would need to discover first-hand—a reward for the exploratory aspect of the PVE environment. However, the reality now is that the area, to some (namely Charmander starters), training/hunting in that area is the only extra-viable method of preparing for Brock, to which the area is mainly esteemed resourceful for anyway.

While I do believe some may stumble upon this naturally, such as those who want to turn extra stones to find NPC trainers to train on, would it help if there were more NPCs that allude to the area's existence? Such as commonly interacted-with NPCs, namely NPC trainers, that may hint at a secret area somewhere within the forest.

 

[Krysi]

While I do believe some may stumble upon this naturally, such as those who want to turn extra stones to find NPC trainers to train on, would it help if there were more NPCs that allude to the area's existence? Such as commonly interacted-with NPCs, namely NPC trainers, that may hint at a secret area somewhere within the forest.

This could possibly help, but I honestly think moving it to a more visible area would be more efficient as not many people actually take the time to read what NPCs say or they just flat out can't understand what the NPCs are saying in some cases. Unless you have a line of NPCs literally leading to that place, I doubt many would find it.