Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moveset

[spotheals]

Being able to access all of the Pokemon's abilities frequently is essential for playing efficiently. Having the prices for changing a Pokemon's move-set exceed the amount of money that is obtained through playing the game limits the player's ability to play the game; from the perspective that excludes the player-to-player economy.

I would suggest making the cost for changing the move-set of a Pokemon, even higher level Pokemon, much lower then they are now.


Case-in-point, I travel to every gym and defeat the trainers that are there and I do not have enough money to change the move-set of the Pokemon I would like to use and to experiment with.

 

[Rigaudon]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

Do you have any particular suggested amount? If so, what areas are you basing your money gain on (aside from the gym NPCs)?

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

I would suggest a very, very small amount to change the pokemons move-set. Hundreds of pokedollars for the lower level pokemon and thousands for the Higher level pokemon, rather than Hundreads of thousands.

reducing the costs drastically will ensure that people can experiment with their pokemon's move-sets.


this would be based on the money earned only from Pokemon Gyms and NPC's to ensure that people playing the game without participating in the economy will still be able to update their pokemons move-sets without hindrance

 

[Sylpharionz]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

I feel that the cost of changing moves is alright. I assume it also scales with the pokemon's level?

Reasons:
1) It acts as money sink for the game, so that people don't just keep accumulating money and cause market inflation.
2) It should act as deterrence for people that keep changing moves in between battles (just to beat certain players in PvP). If you want the same species of poke to have different set of moves, then just catch a second one (for you to experiment on as well). So it promotes hunting too.
3) It promotes research and planning as well, to understand which moves work best for whichever poke, so you don't anyhow teach the wrong ones and have the luxury/ease of changing it later (curbs down on laziness). It should only be used very minimally in accidental teaching of moves.
4) It makes the selling of a poke with the right set of moves worth higher in the market. Because people don't have to spend money on changing them.

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

The main aspect of the game is finding the right moveset to use with the pokemon. If players are limited to Not changing the moves it will limit their abilities to use their pokemon effectivly.""

Decreasing the amount of money would NOT cause inflation in the economy in-fact it would increase the economy because people could spend their limited funds on the pokemon other people hunted for rather than having to waste it on changing moves.

after performing research on the pokemons moveset you should be able to change the pokemons moves with ease, not finding that there is a moveset you could be using but finding you don't have the funds to change your pokemns moves and thus to use your pokemon effectively.

Having the costs of altering the moves of a pokemon limits the amount of experimentation to find new effective movesets that people have never considered to be effective.

 

[Sylpharionz]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

The main aspect of the game is finding the right moveset to use with the pokemon. If players are limited to Not changing the moves it will limit their abilities to use their pokemon effectivly.""

Decreasing the amount of money would NOT cause inflation in the economy in-fact it would increase the economy because people could spend their limited funds on the pokemon other people hunted for rather than having to waste it on changing moves.

after performing research on the pokemons moveset you should be able to change the pokemons moves with ease, not finding that there is a moveset you could be using but finding you don't have the funds to change your pokemns moves and thus to use your pokemon effectively.

Having the costs of altering the moves of a pokemon limits the amount of experimentation to find new effective movesets that people have never considered to be effective.

You are supposed to do research and experiment with another poke (or even outside the game itself), who ask you to keep changing the moves of the same poke? If you can't figure out the right moveset just by leveling up the poke (that doesn't cost any money), then you shouldn't complain about the cost of changing moves. If you say you want to change the moves of poke that you buy from other players, then buy the one already with the correct moveset instead (or cater that into the poke cost itself if no other choice). If you have more than 1 moveset that you want to use, then simply just use more than 1 of that same poke (instead of keep changing the moves of only 1 poke). For example having 1 ttar for DD sweeper and another ttar for choice scarf pursuit trapper.

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

The costs of obtaining another pokemon to try out a new moveset can far outweigh the costs constantly switching moves of a pokemon especially if it is a tier 4 or 5 pokemon with good iv's. I personally use a different moveset for leveling up so i can maximize the effectiveness of the attacks against a specific type of pokemon to increase the ease of leveling up a pokemon so i constantly have to change the pokemons moveset when my pokemon reach its maximum level. Players should not be forced to go outside of the game itself to experiment with pokemon movesets we should be able to tryout new tactics with our caught or purchased pokemon ingame thus increasing the bonds between players and their pokemon.

Do not fear change. Change can be good. Especially change within the game for decreasing the costs of changing moves for a pokemon. Yes, it may affect some small aspects for people who have become efficient in taking advantage of their pokemons moveset to increase the value of their pokemon, I would prefer to take that advantage away. The pokemons moves should be accessible by all players including those with limited funds.

 

[Sylpharionz]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

The costs of obtaining another pokemon to try out a new moveset can far outweigh the costs constantly switching moves of a pokemon especially if it is a tier 4 or 5 pokemon with good iv's. I personally use a different moveset for leveling up so i can maximize the effectiveness of the attacks against a specific type of pokemon to increase the ease of leveling up a pokemon so i constantly have to change the pokemons moveset when my pokemon reach its maximum level. Players should not be forced to go outside of the game itself to experiment with pokemon movesets we should be able to tryout new tactics with our caught or purchased pokemon ingame thus increasing the bonds between players and their pokemon.

Do not fear change. Change can be good. Especially change within the game for decreasing the costs of changing moves for a pokemon. Yes, it may affect some small aspects for people who have become efficient in taking advantage of their pokemons moveset to increase the value of their pokemon, I would prefer to take that advantage away. The pokemons moves should be accessible by all players including those with limited funds.

The cost is just pokeballs... go hunt dun be lazy...

In the real handheld games, you dun even have the chance to experiment lol, as the tms are limited. So all experiments are done outside the game (or by repeating the game itself). There's no such thing as bond with pokemon in game...

Change that doesn't make sense (and just for the sake of laziness), is never a good thing. Pokemon moves are always accessible to everyone, but who ask you to be the one that keep changing the moves of 1 poke... So you want easier leveling up but not wanting to pay the cost of changing moves later on for that? That's just hypocrisy. Go the hard way, level up with the end moveset in mind, then no complaints about the cost either.

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

This is not the handheld game and we should not limit ourselves like it is.

Changing the costs of changing the moves on a pokemon is not a result of laziness, it is merely utilizing only the money that is obtained from gym battles and NPC battles, That is the proposition I make and It does make sense.

If we did take the money that was made from Gym and NPC battles and attempted to change the moves of our pokemon it would nearly be impossible to acquire the funds to do so, especially for higher levels.


It sounds like the position you are relying on in your argument is, "This is how things are, dont be lazy and deal with it."
If we can make the game more efficient I would suggest we do so. Being able to manipulate the pokemons moveset for multiple pokemon would absolutely make the game more efficient.


There are absolutely bonds between players and their pokemon. not all people perceive a bond but I do, therefore bonds do exist and i am testament to that, therefore it is possible that more players do feel that bond.

 

[Tendou]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

What hes trying to say is, any fan made game based from handhelds (we do have some thats not following it completely in terms of mechanics) actually follows a bit on how such thing is handled to check how the battle will turn out, it is not because this isnt handheld it wont be followed in a similar logic. We have everything included in this game to use calculators (showdown calculator is one) like we does in handhelds so instead wasting time changing the moveset several times (again, the moveset not how much it costs as sylph isnt actually talking about the money it will leechs from you) you can easily do it using a calculator against anything you wish to do damage on.

While some prices are indeed a bit costy due the PWO feature to update moves have you ever tried to do that all by yourself using a damage calculator first? If not you are not being smart enough unless if you never tried to use such tools that WERE created just for this common issue (thats the part Sylph mentions about the laziness because everything is right in front of your hands to be used/explored but you need to move by yourself to use them). All I can see from this post is something similar with egg breeding, where you dont need to waste over than 50k of steps just to test a pokemon if you can easily do it using the damage calculator and since PWO follows the handhelds (another reason to do not ignore it) using pokemons from this game in the damage calculator from showdown/somewhere as the world does for almost 15 years is possible.

Try to do it sometimes, you will find how useful this kind of tool is.

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

your comments still do not justify the costs, yes in determining which move to use can be done using tools but when it comes to changing the moves, as you said yourself, It is costly, Incredibly costly.

My position is the price does not have to be that costly.

Regardless of what tools are available for research The cost of changing the moves still greatly exceed the amount of money gained through NPC battles excluding the ambient economy.

The costs for changing 4 moves on a level 99 pokemon are greater than 100,000 pokedollars.

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

ultimately having the costs of altering the movesets being incredibly higher than the amount of money that is made through normal gameplay, excluding the player economy, is drastically limiting the abilities of players who do not have large amounts of money leaving the rich with the only ability to alter their movesets at will. Yes there are many things that can be done to reduce the amount of moves that must be changed for each pokemon but if i wanted to change 30 level 99 pokemon's moves it would cost over one million pokedollars which far exceeds the amount of money i have.

I have reached out to the players and asked for their opinions on the matter and there are players who agree with my perspective, that being, the costs for altering moves are too high. So i am not alone in possessing this perspective.

 

[Sylpharionz]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

ultimately having the costs of altering the movesets being incredibly higher than the amount of money that is made through normal gameplay, excluding the player economy, is drastically limiting the abilities of players who do not have large amounts of money leaving the rich with the only ability to alter their movesets at will. Yes there are many things that can be done to reduce the amount of moves that must be changed for each pokemon but if i wanted to change 30 level 99 pokemon's moves it would cost over one million pokedollars which far exceeds the amount of money i have.

I have reached out to the players and asked for their opinions on the matter and there are players who agree with my perspective, that being, the costs for altering moves are too high. So i am not alone in possessing this perspective.

If you need to change the moveset of 30 level 99 pokemons, then you are seriously playing this game wrong... You're just blatantly ignoring the fact that those research and exploration tools are easily available to you (as what Tendou mentioned), and hope that your mistake can be easily solved by just changing the moves anytime you want. So the high cost here is to punish such people like you who are just plain lazy and wants everything handed on their plate.

Like I always said, changing the pokemon moves is NOT supposed to be the normal activity that you do daily, it is only for rare accidental case that you teach a wrong move, so at most you will only change 1 pokemon over like 1 week (where you can easily cover the cost by killing wild pokes or NPC trainers in that 1 week). It is not there for players like you who just like to abuse the system and feel like it's there to provide you with a safety net in case anything goes wrong. That's why such feature doesn't even exist in the real game, you should be glad that it's even here in PWO.

Again let me reiterate to you, changing moves is not given for convenience, so do not use it as such. Do your homework before playing a Pokemon game, it's been out for almost 20 years now, no excuses for you not to be able to use the resources that's available out there.

I'm not trying to just shoot down your idea here, rather telling you how this feature is supposed to be used

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

On the contrary, I could have purchased or traded for 30 level 99 pokemon and i have to get the proper movesets for each pokemon. That was a hypothetical situation that i posed which is possible therefore it must be considered plausible for a trainer to encounter the situation and the fact that I may, in the future, have to change 30 pokemon's movesets does not in any way reflect negatively on my abilities to play the game effectively

And that is not the case, changing a pokemon's move is not there only for emergencies, it is there so the players can easily change the moves for their pokemon when needed. the need for changing the pokemon's move could arise for multiple reasons. Regardless of the reasons why, when a pokemon's movesets must be changed, the price does hinder a players ability to change the moves. You may be speaking from you own experience but that is not the experience of all players and we must not limit ourselves only to that perspective.

It may seem like it is only there for emergencies because of the outrageous costs to change a pokemon's moveset but that can be easily changed without impacting the game whatsoever and if it is changed your perspective, that being it is only used for emergencies, should change and you would utilize the ability to change a pokemon's moveset whenever necessary, like it is Actually intended for.

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

What is the staffs perspective on changing the costs for altering a pokemon's moveset? Is it a possibility that it could be done in the future and has it been something that has been or is currently discussed by the staff?

 

[Sylpharionz]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

On the contrary, I could have purchased or traded for 30 level 99 pokemon and i have to get the proper movesets for each pokemon. That was a hypothetical situation that i posed which is possible therefore it must be considered plausible for a trainer to encounter the situation and the fact that I may, in the future, have to change 30 pokemon's movesets does not in any way reflect negatively on my abilities to play the game effectively

And that is not the case, changing a pokemon's move is not there only for emergencies, it is there so the players can easily change the moves for their pokemon when needed. the need for changing the pokemon's move could arise for multiple reasons. Regardless of the reasons why, when a pokemon's movesets must be changed, the price does hinder a players ability to change the moves. You may be speaking from you own experience but that is not the experience of all players and we must not limit ourselves only to that perspective.

It may seem like it is only there for emergencies because of the outrageous costs to change a pokemon's moveset but that can be easily changed without impacting the game whatsoever and if it is changed your perspective, that being it is only used for emergencies, should change and you would utilize the ability to change a pokemon's moveset whenever necessary, like it is Actually intended for.

Then it would just be promoting laziness, people will not care and think so much on what moves to teach because they can think "Oh I can just change it later for cheap, no problem". It is this kind of mentality that we don't want players to have, and you're just promoting it lol. Instead we want them to think like "Damn, I made the wrong move choice because I didn't do enough research, so now I'm being punished by the high cost. I will learn from this and not to repeat the same mistake next time", that's called letting people learn from their mistakes instead of promoting said mistakes because there's no repercussions for it (people will just think it's alright to not do research and keep making the same mistakes).

Like I said, this feature is not for convenience, as it never existed in the real actual games (rofl like how would you even know what it's actually intended for, you're just making assumptions that would benefit your argument). You can't just change everything to make your life easier, just deal with it if you want to purposely buy 30 pokes all with the wrong moves (or as I already told you, cater the move changing cost into the poke cost before you buy them, simple). Or just buy pokes with the correct moves...

Again let me reiterate my very first point, the cost needs to be that high to act as a money sink in game, it's just the way it is.

You don't want to hunt for extra pokes to experiment, don't want to find and buy the correct pokes with correct moves, don't want to do research beforehand, but want to have easy features implemented for your sake so that you can make mistakes anytime you want (or do whatever you like as you don't care about the punishment), that's just pure laziness.

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

Then it would just be promoting laziness, people will not care and think so much on what moves to teach because they can think "oh I can just change it later for cheap, no problem". It is this kind of mentality that we don't want players to have, and you're just promoting it lol. Like I said, this feature is not for convenience, as it never existed in the real actual games (rofl like how would you even know what it's actually intended for, you're just making assumptions that would benefit your argument). You can't just change everything to make your life easier, just deal with it if you want to purposely buy 30 pokes all with the wrong moves (or as I already told you, cater the move changing cost into the poke cost before you buy them, simple).

Again let me reiterate my very first point, the cost needs to be that high to act as a money sink in game, it's just the way it is.

Your Opinion is an assumption. Lowering the costs of changing a pokemons moveset will not promote laziness it will promote fairness to all trainers, regardless of the amount of money a player has. My argument is based on the amount of money that is obtained from the game itself, excluding the economy, which would not be enough to change multiple pokemon movesets. The costs should be reduced to allow players to utilize the full potential of their pokemon, not to take all of their money.

your Opinion justifies the high costs as being acceptable because, "That's the way its always been;" however, this aspect can change without damage to the overall gameplay like you Assume it would have throughout the game.
----------

(rofl like how would you even know what it's actually intended for, you're just making assumptions that would benefit your argument)

So are you. Case-in-point:

this feature is not for convenience

----------
The ability to change the pokemons movesets has been introduced into this game, this we can both agree on regardless of the reasons we perceive it to be introduced. Since the ability to manipulate the pokemons movesets has been introduced to PWO, all players should have access to this ability to utilize as needed (my Opinion). Limiting the amount of manipulation that can take place through the price, is not allowing players to manipulate the movesets as needed (Fact), therefore reducing the cost will allow players to manipulate the movesets as needed more-so than keeping the costs where they are (Fact).
----------

It is this kind of mentality that we don't want players to have

You also say "We" yet the only perspective that you are representing is your own. You may speak your Opinion but that's all it will be, your belief, as it is my opinion to reduce the costs reinforced by the fact that players could not make enough money, without utilizing the economy, to change high level pokemon movesets.

 

[Sylpharionz]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

Then it would just be promoting laziness, people will not care and think so much on what moves to teach because they can think "oh I can just change it later for cheap, no problem". It is this kind of mentality that we don't want players to have, and you're just promoting it lol. Like I said, this feature is not for convenience, as it never existed in the real actual games (rofl like how would you even know what it's actually intended for, you're just making assumptions that would benefit your argument). You can't just change everything to make your life easier, just deal with it if you want to purposely buy 30 pokes all with the wrong moves (or as I already told you, cater the move changing cost into the poke cost before you buy them, simple).

Again let me reiterate my very first point, the cost needs to be that high to act as a money sink in game, it's just the way it is.

Your Opinion is an assumption. Lowering the costs of changing a pokemons moveset will not promote laziness it will promote fairness to all trainers, regardless of the amount of money a player has. My argument is based on the amount of money that is obtained from the game itself, excluding the economy, which would not be enough to change multiple pokemon movesets. The costs should be reduced to allow players to utilize the full potential of their pokemon, not to take all of their money.

your Opinion justifies the high costs as being acceptable because, "That's the way its always been;" however, this aspect can change without damage to the overall gameplay like you Assume it would have throughout the game.
----------

(rofl like how would you even know what it's actually intended for, you're just making assumptions that would benefit your argument)

So are you. Case-in-point:

this feature is not for convenience

----------
The ability to change the pokemons movesets has been introduced into this game, this we can both agree on regardless of the reasons we perceive it to be introduced. Since the ability to manipulate the pokemons movesets has been introduced to PWO, all players should have access to this ability to utilize as needed (my Opinion). Limiting the amount of manipulation that can take place through the price, is not allowing players to manipulate the movesets as needed (Fact), therefore reducing the cost will allow players to manipulate the movesets as needed more-so than keeping the costs where they are (Fact).
----------

It is this kind of mentality that we don't want players to have

You also say "We" yet the only perspective that you are representing is your own. You may speak your Opinion but that's all it will be, your belief, as it is my opinion to reduce the costs reinforced by the fact that players could not make enough money, without utilizing the economy, to change high level pokemon movesets.

I'll stop feeding the trolls.

The cost is always fair to everyone. Players always have enough money to change the moveset in the scenario that it's intended for (accident), and it never takes their entire wealth. You are the one giving opinion that it "should" be for changing multiple pokes as and when you like it to be (which everyone can see just being lazy, plain and simple). It's never intended for you to easily change multiple pokes at once.

Players are not supposed to "manipulate the movesets as needed", it's not what the feature is for. This is there to promote prior research and understanding of the game as a whole, but still allowing people to recover from mistakes (and mistakes are not supposed to be repeated).

Whatever you say against this, will just be your opinion. The fact still remains, even if you can't accept that.

If you're just a lazy person, then I suggest fix that first before trying to fix this feature.

gl;hf

 

[spotheals]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

Players are not supposed to "manipulate the movesets as needed", it's not what the feature is for. This is there to promote prior research and understanding of the game as a whole, but still allowing people to recover from mistakes (and mistakes are not supposed to be repeated).

Your opinion about what this feature if for.
----------

I'll stop feeding the trolls.

Your opinion i'm a troll, which i'm not. This post was initially a suggestion to the staff which you argued against.
-----------

I feel that the cost of changing moves is alright. I assume it also scales with the pokemon's level?

Reasons:
1) It acts as money sink for the game, so that people don't just keep accumulating money and cause market inflation.
2) It should act as deterrence for people that keep changing moves in between battles (just to beat certain players in PvP). If you want the same species of poke to have different set of moves, then just catch a second one (for you to experiment on as well). So it promotes hunting too.
3) It promotes research and planning as well, to understand which moves work best for whichever poke, so you don't anyhow teach the wrong ones and have the luxury/ease of changing it later (curbs down on laziness). It should only be used very minimally in accidental teaching of moves.
4) It makes the selling of a poke with the right set of moves worth higher in the market. Because people don't have to spend money on changing them.

Your original argument I was countering with my argument.

Argument =In logic and philosophy, an argument is a series of statements typically used to persuade someone of something or to present reasons for accepting a conclusion.
(Definition provided by google.com)

 

[Sylpharionz]

Re: Suggestion: Lower the Costs of changing a pokemons Moves

Players are not supposed to "manipulate the movesets as needed", it's not what the feature is for. This is there to promote prior research and understanding of the game as a whole, but still allowing people to recover from mistakes (and mistakes are not supposed to be repeated).

Your opinion about what this feature if for.
----------

I'll stop feeding the trolls.

Your opinion i'm a troll, which i'm not. This post was initially a suggestion to the staff which you argued against.
-----------

I feel that the cost of changing moves is alright. I assume it also scales with the pokemon's level?

Reasons:
1) It acts as money sink for the game, so that people don't just keep accumulating money and cause market inflation.
2) It should act as deterrence for people that keep changing moves in between battles (just to beat certain players in PvP). If you want the same species of poke to have different set of moves, then just catch a second one (for you to experiment on as well). So it promotes hunting too.
3) It promotes research and planning as well, to understand which moves work best for whichever poke, so you don't anyhow teach the wrong ones and have the luxury/ease of changing it later (curbs down on laziness). It should only be used very minimally in accidental teaching of moves.
4) It makes the selling of a poke with the right set of moves worth higher in the market. Because people don't have to spend money on changing them.

Your original argument I was countering with my argument.

Argument =In logic and philosophy, an argument is a series of statements typically used to persuade someone of something or to present reasons for accepting a conclusion.
(Definition provided by google.com)

Like I said I'm out of here, peace.

gl;hf