Solving the problem of pokemon old ivs - Resolvendo o problema dos pokemons old ivs

[mati-leo]

You shouldn't focus on the *Old Shinys* or anything that comes with the word *old* in the beginning... why? Lets just say that if you joined in 2016 and played all the year, to someone that joins in 2017 you're already OLD and your stuff is OLD and any newbie will find that you're an *expert/rich/old/etc* even more if you have the chance of buying tokens... its almost the same thing (besides the ivs of some pokemon).

In a few words, its relative... that's why I think you shouldn't focus on the old things, old things were obtained with effort, dedication and time... why would you kill that ? The yesterday is already a part of the past, its already old. ( lol )

Lets focus on the bugs, on ideas, events, and stuff like that. By now, seeing the poor activity on the forums I would suggest in game+forum events, something to collect players attention, this will revive the forums and the community aswell, they/you need an incentive .

 

[Nyx~]

Muito boa a iniciativa, rato17; mesmo eu sendo um novato em questões como falar sobre nature e ability, também acho que ter shiny's Old IVs (e somente os Old IVs) atrapalham a vida para alguns players que tentam honestamente arrumar um jeito de ser grande no PWO e acabam sendo bloqueados na esperança de ser do mesmo nível que os players mais velhos daqui. Eu serei mais radical: eu acho que esses shiny's Old IVs nunca deveriam ter sido criados, porque quando se trata de battles, isso sim atrapalha muito pra quem enfrenta um player que usa esses tais shiny's. Qual o motivo de eu dizer isso? Porque esses shiny's tem força demais em stats, desnecessária. Eu preferia que os shiny's Old IVs fossem extintos definitivamente, ao invés de serem consertados, pois é um erro cometido feito por quem não entende verdadeiramente de jogos oficiais de Pokémon. Mais uma vez volto a ressaltar que, com as ideias do rato17, o PWO será mais uma vez um jogo com muitos players comparado a outros jogos.

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Very good initiative, rato17, even though I'm a newcomer to issues such as talking about nature and ability, I also think having shiny's Old IVs (and only the Old IVs) upset some players who honestly try to figure out a way to be big In PWO and end up being blocked in the hope of being of the same level as the older players here. I'll be more radical: I think these shiny's Old IVs should never have been created, because when it comes to battles, this is very difficult for anyone facing a player who uses these shiny's. Why do I say that? Because these shiny's have too much force on stats, unnecessary. I would rather have the shiny Old IVs permanently extinguished, rather than being repaired, as it is a mistake made by those who do not really understand Pokemon games. Once again I stress that: with the ideas of the rato17, the PWO will once again be a multiplayer game compared to other games.

mati-leo is right, old shinies are gotten by many effort in the game in the old times of pwo, which are very important to some players, who got friends that left and got them as gift is also an example, its not reasonable for older players to just be taken away all olds from the account which will make olds leave.. i totally support mati-leo in this matter! but i am done discussing about this now. it wont happen i hope~ cause everyone deserves their pokemons! and even if some got olds, they can still be sold to newer players once they put the effort in playing pwo.   goodluck. 

 

[justme1306]

first of all hi everyone

im playing since 2012 and i have old stuff like most old players.ive played hard to get money to buy them even 32ivs which is impossible now and paid 4-8 millions each just like many players. new players can still buy them on the market by selling pokemon or tokens so its not impossible. my point is....if you delete those...u delete years of progress of players who spent lot of real money in this game and its just inacceptable. 

20+ new ivs are great idea so they can be sold cheaper and easier to sell but deleting those old ivs will make even more players leaving this game( which doesnt need to lose more players and i will include myself) cause since 2012 i cant count how much real money and in game money ive spent here. and i wont buy anything else ms or tokens before staff made it clear they wont delete old ivs stuff.

 

[Shiny!Midou~]

hi everyone i don't like long paragraphes but i want to say it is bad thing to delete old iv poke's i know i am new but i spent a lot of time and bought a lot of old iv poke's so if you want to remove the old iv poke's just buy all of them and then do whatever you want with them (sorry bad english)

 

[Nshims]

I also invested a lot to get some old S pokes, it's normal that i think old IVs should not be removed,
if there is no other way, a suitable refund would be an alternative!​

 

[filipy]

mati-leo is right, old shinies are gotten by many effort in the game in the old times of pwo, which are very important to some players, who got friends that left and got them as gift is also an example, its not reasonable for older players to just be taken away all olds from the account which will make olds leave.. i totally support mati-leo in this matter! but i am done discussing about this now. it wont happen i hope~ cause everyone deserves their pokemons! and even if some got olds, they can still be sold to newer players once they put the effort in playing pwo.   goodluck. 

Read this part:

"the only problem is the players who collect pokemons, since they (including me) would lose the pokemons with old and new ivs. And this fact is what leads us to the second solution which is to put a clause in npc that would allow the player to form the eggs, and this clause consists in that the player could not use pokemons shinys old and new ivs to form the eggs. This would also solve the problem of egg formation with incorrect ivs''

 

[Tsubaru]

mati-leo is right, old shinies are gotten by many effort in the game in the old times of pwo....

ye dont forget the good old times where corrupted staff members floated the market with shinys,
or when ppl used the ingame auction house to triple their money and pokemon by abusing bugs.
The old pwo days were a mess and am glad they are over =)

Deleting old iv shinys is also a solution but relloing their ivs is a better way since u dont lose ur pokemon only its value if ur unlucky.

We could actually change every pokemon gender to male so they become useless for breeding if u change the way to carry over ivs to female only.
After that u have to make them unable to use nature capsules.
This way old shinys will be the same now and forever.


Personally i think that nothing will be done about it, so whenever breeding/nature is a thing in Pwo alot of players (myself included) will be smashing pvp with perfect pokemon

 

[justme1306]

relloing ivs? what about someone paid 25m for shiny 32ivs ??? even if you would get good ivs it wont give you youre 25m back. im here since 2012 but my account since 2014 and i have 32ivs which i pay with daycare ive done and selling items without cheating. like every new players you have to adjust yourself to the game its not supposed to be the game to adjust to you. when i comeback in 2014 i had nothing no money no bike and no friend left active. ive started from nothing and today have plenty of friends and stuff and money. just do the same

 

[GuiiHenrique]

Come on...​

I saw some answers to the topic regarding the extinction of old ivs, and a doubt arose, where did this idea come from ??​

Well, my current account is 2012, but I have been a PWO player since 2008, ie like some here, I would also lose many Old ivs... But at no time in the Rato17's post does he say something about it...​

As I said in my previous answer, many players are individualistic and this is what hinders the evolution of the game.​

Another thing I commented is that the problem of the PWO are the disinterested players in knowing how the mechanics really work, and this is becoming clear again.​

Guys, for those who do not know, breeding creates the perfect Pokémon, with 30-31 ivs to bring about the desired hidden power and perfect nature and ability, so old ivs would naturally be extinguished, because many non-shinies pokémons would end up with these same ivs.​

In my previous comment I did not want to make a long comment, but I will have to continue my ideas here. I believe that often the delay of an update is a consequence of the staff's concern on how to deal with the fact that some players feel "harmed" after the launch of this att. If only in this topic the problem is the old ivs, this is easy to be solved, I will give some examples, just think.​

Breeding in PWO - Could only be done with captured Pokémon from a specific date.​

Note: I will not explain anything about breeding, if someone wants to know more about it, a quick internet search solves the problem. This specific date would only apply to Pokémons shinies.​

How it would work:​

Pokémons shinies captured from this date - The breeding would work normally, in the same way that we found in the games of the original franchise. (There are tutorials on breeding on the internet).​

Pokémons shinies captured before this date - It would continue passing only the egg move. (It would continue the same way it is found in PWO today).​

A shiny Pokémon captured before and another after a specific date - It would continue passing only the egg move. (It would continue the same way it is found in PWO today).​

Finishing: I believe Pokémon shinies with new ivs would not be a problem in breeding because many Pokémon non shinies with 4 ivs 28+ for example, are found. This is just an idea of how this could be solved. Breeding in Pokémon is something that requires a lot of patience and determination, that is, it is not very difficult to create a collection with incredibles Pokémon.​

GuiiHenrique's Tip: If you do not know how a particular subject works, search more about it. If you have to defend a thesis, use a plausible argument. Your accounting time does not make you better than anyone else if you do not have the knowledge.​

 

[Future~Sight]

You have to adjust yourself to the game its not supposed to be the game to adjust to you.

Many players are individualistic and this is what hinders the evolution of the game.[/quote]

PWO is much better off without breeding or any broken, dumbed down version of it.

Regarding natures and old IVs: Accept the fact that you've all been playing a broken game all these years. I am an old player. I have several hundred Pokemon. I have entire collections of 32 IVed battlers and collectibles. I have many level 99/100 Pokemon without natures that can perform well as they are. But i know that that isn't how things are supposed to be. We all know that. This game was supposed to have natures and we've all created a market based on an incomplete system. The staff needs to stop trying to please the 10-20 people that log in everyday and add natures that will bring new players to pwo.
We've all worked very hard to get where we are, yes. But all this time, we've only invested in short term joys. We all knew that the game, and each and every Pokemon every captured has been incomplete without a randomised nature.
Gather some courage. Do what's right instead of creating a complicated system trying to please everyone and allowing everyone to retain or increase value of every Pokemon they have. We already regret the 28+ IV system. Do you want to have more regrets in the future with overly complicated nature assignment system?

Assign randomised natures to all Pokemon.
Old IVs: All old IV shinies won't be given a nature. Players can have an option to either have a 28+ Pokemon with no nature or go to an NPC and have their Pokemon obtain a random nature along with random 20+ IVs.
That is my solution. Even if staff decides to go with another solution re. old IVs, I firmly believe that Natures should be randomised asap and breeding has no place in PWO.

 

[RoyMustangBr]

The point is that for a long time PWO was a great game, and with many players.
Today PWO is neither a shadow of the past, the Fossil event was wonderful BUT, other games of Pokemons are with better graphics, with many more regions, many more pokemons and running on smartphones ... PWO was left behind. And I think in main the older players do not want the game to die. In order for the game to not die, there must be events, but you NEED MORE BEYOND UPDATES! For this we need to implement the maps and solve this problem of IVs.
The proposal was not to DELETE OLD IV, but to create something that PREVENT the IVs to be passed on to the eggs.

_____________________________________
Português
A questão é que por muito tempo PWO foi um grande jogo, e com muitos players.
Hoje PWO não é nem sombra do passado, o evento de Fossil foi maravilhoso MAS, demais jogos de Pokemons estão com graficos melhores, com muito mais regiões, muito mais pokemons e rodando em smartphones... PWO foi deixado para trás. E acredito que em principal os jogadores mais antigos não querem que o jogo morra. Para que o jogo não morra precisa haver eventos mas precisa MAIS AINDA de ATUALIZAÇÕES! Para isto precisamos do implemento dos mapas e conseguir solucionar este problema dos IVs.
A proposta não foi DELETAR OLD IV, e sim criar algo que IMPEÇA que os IVs sejam passados para os ovos.

 

[rato17]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]English version[/font]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]First of all I would like to put a part of my first post here below for everyone to read the opinions expressed on that occasion:[/font]


[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]"This problem in my opinion has two possible solutions, which would be the first to create a type of table that gives the price of Pokemons old and new ivs and that all the players sold their pokemons for that npc that would have this table. This solution would inject more money into the game economy and also eliminate the old and new ivs pokemons from the game, the only problem is the players who collect pokemons, since they (including me) would lose the pokemons with old and new ivs. And this fact is what leads us to the second solution which is to put a clause in npc that would allow the player to form the eggs, and this clause consists in that the player could not use pokemons shinys old and new ivs to form the eggs. This would also solve the problem of egg formation with [/font][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]incorrect ivs. "[/font]


[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Well, as everyone can see from my previously made post I mentioned two possible ideas so that the problem of old and new pokemons ivs can be eliminated in the pokemon egg-forming system. As you can see are two solutions where they give two possible destinations to the pokemons discussed in question.
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[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]As several players have previously mentioned to me the only possible solution is not to eliminate the old ivs pokemons but also to prevent them from participating in the egg formation system.
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[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]What I can not read and admit that is considered correct is the option that old ivs pokemons should continue the way they are.[/font][/font][/size]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]This would in any way prevent the progress of the game. As GuiiHenrique quoted above, many players are "lazy" to find out how the mechanics of existing regions and of the ones that may come, so they are wrong to say that for example pokemon old ivs can participate in this system.
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[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]Another thing that made my eyes stand out is that events would be the solution to the progress of the game. Well we had a little time the best event in the history of the PWO and even then the game hardly spent more than 100 people playing. I think this proves that events are not enough. As the Future ~ Sight player said, many of the pokemons who capture them have some kind of momentary happiness because they are incomplete (without natures, abilities ...), and in the same way there are events that in 3 weeks make a larger number of players Return to play and then return to normal.[/font][/font][/size][/font][/size]


[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]We players need to give up certain things to get the game going. And I'm not saying that I lost all the old ivs, but only that they did not participate in the egg formation system because this, as I said earlier, would form an army of pokemons with perfect ivs.
That said the players would like to speak a bit exclusively to members of the administration. As you can see we have several players with important opinions and contributions that have been made throughout the week that this post is on the forum. I would like at least to know the opinion of the adiminsitration on this and to give some opinion on the ideas and when new updates will come.[/font][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size]


[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]We do not charge the momentary attitude but at least we can see progress in the ideas and updates that players would like to see in the game. Even why are we players who invest our time and money playing a game of which we are not absolutely sure about anything.

PS: sorry if I offended some player with what I posted here but I needed to explain some things that seemed to me that were not well understood, good game and have a good time.[/font][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]versão em português:[/font][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Arial, sans-serif]Primeiramente gostaria de colocar uma parte da minha primeira postagem logo aqui a baixo para todos lerem as opiniões expressadas naquela ocasião: [/font][/font][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size][/font][/size]

[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][size=medium][font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][font=Arial, sans-serif]“[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Esse problema na minha opnião tem duas soluções possíveis, que seria a primeira a criação de um tipo de tabela que desse o preço dos pokemons old e new ivs e que todos os jogadores vendessem seus pokemons para esse npc que teria essa tabela. Essa solução injetaria mais dinheiro na economia do jogo e também eliminaria os pokemons old e new ivs do jogo, o único problema são os jogadores que colecionam pokemons, pois eles ( incluindo a mim) perderiam os pokemons com old e new ivs. E esse fato é o que nos leva a segunda solução que é consiste em colocar uma cláusula no npc que permitiria o jogador formar os ovos, e essa cláusula consiste em que o jogador não poderia usar pokemons shinys old e new ivs para formar os ovos. Isso também resolveria o problema de formação de ovos com ivs incorretos.[/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]” [/font]
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[font=Arial, sans-serif]Bom, como todos podem ver na minha postagem feita anteriormente citei duas possíveis ideias para que possa ser eliminado o problema dos pokemons old e new ivs no sistema de formação de ovos pokemon. Como podem ver são duas soluções onde dão dois possíveis destinos para os pokemons discutidos em questão.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Como vários jogadores citaram anteriormente a mim a única solução possível não é eliminar os pokemons old ivs mas também fazer com que eles não participem do sistema de formação de ovos.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]O que não posso ler e admitir que seja considerado como correto é a opção de que os pokemons old ivs devem continuar do jeito que estão.[/font]





[font=Arial, sans-serif]Isso impossibilitaria de qualquer maneira o progresso do jogo. Como GuiiHenrique citou acima, muitos jogadores tem “preguiça” de se informar como funcionam as mecânicas das regiões existentes e das que podem vir e por isso se equivocam em falar que por exemplo os pokemon old ivs possam participar desse sistema.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Outra coisa que me ressaltou os olhos é de que eventos seriam a solução para o progresso do jogo. Bem tivemos a pouco tempo o melhor evento da história do PWO e mesmo assim o jogo dificilmente passava de 100 pessoas jogando. Acho que isso prova que eventos não são suficientes. Como disse o jogador Future~Sight muitos dos pokemons que capturam os temos algum tipo de felicidade momentânea pois estão incompletos( sem natures, habilidades...), e da mesma forma se dão os eventos que em 3 semanas fazem um número maior de jogadores voltarem a jogar e depois volta tudo a normalidade. [/font]





[font=Arial, sans-serif]Nós jogadores precisamos abrir mão de certas coisas para termos o avanço do jogo. E nem digo de perder todos os old ivs, mas sim de apenas que não participem do sistema de formação de ovos por que isso como já disse anteriormente formaria um exército de pokemons com ivs perfeitos. [/font]





[font=Arial, sans-serif]Dito isso aos jogadores gostaria de falar um pouco exclusivamente aos membros da administração. Como vocês podem ver temos vários jogadores com opiniões e contribuições importantes que foram feitas ao longo da semana em que essa postagem está no fórum. Eu gostaria de ao menos saber a opinião da adiminsitração sobre isso e que dessem algum parecer sobre as ideias e quando virão novas atualizações.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]Não cobramos a atitude momentânea mas sim que pelo menos possamos ver progresso nas ideias e atualizações que os jogadores gostariam de ver no jogo. Até por que somos nós jogadores que investimos nosso tempo e dinheiro jogando um jogo de que não temos certeza absoluta sobre nada.[/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif] [/font]

[font=Arial, sans-serif]PS: desculpe se ofendi algum jogador com o que postei aqui mas precisava explicar algumas coisas que me pareceram que não foram bem entendidas, bom jogo e passem bem.[/font]
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[Tendou]

relloing ivs? what about someone paid 25m for shiny 32ivs ??? even if you would get good ivs it wont give you youre 25m back. im here since 2012 but my account since 2014 and i have 32ivs which i pay with daycare ive done and selling items without cheating. like every new players you have to adjust yourself to the game its not supposed to be the game to adjust to you. when i comeback in 2014 i had nothing no money no bike and no friend left active. ive started from nothing and today have plenty of friends and stuff and money. just do the same

Future Sight already gave you the answer here:

Spoiler

Regarding natures and old IVs: Accept the fact that you've all been playing a broken game all these years. I am an old player. I have several hundred Pokemon. I have entire collections of 32 IVed battlers and collectibles. I have many level 99/100 Pokemon without natures that can perform well as they are. But i know that that isn't how things are supposed to be. We all know that. This game was supposed to have natures and we've all created a market based on an incomplete system. The staff needs to stop trying to please the 10-20 people that log in everyday and add natures that will bring new players to pwo.
We've all worked very hard to get where we are, yes. But all this time, we've only invested in short term joys. We all knew that the game, and each and every Pokemon every captured has been incomplete without a randomised nature.
Gather some courage. Do what's right instead of creating a complicated system trying to please everyone and allowing everyone to retain or increase value of every Pokemon they have. We already regret the 28+ IV system. Do you want to have more regrets in the future with overly complicated nature assignment system?

32 ivs were not supposed to exist, yet you paid a lot for an unexistant feature you knew it was impossible so you could feel unique. Any game has the right to change everything at their will, if the path is the right one. You have donated, not bought, both have different meanings. We're just lucky not every game we donate think that way out of sudden but they should. Still, if you want to feel unique just room hack a game and spawn every shiny pokemon you want.

Right now we have new players coming, but PWO's fate is currently being critical. Would we keep feeding the same thing over and over again for just a bunch of players like Future Sight said or cant we just accept and read the facts thus opening the PWO in a worldwide way? Please accept the fact this is not related in getting better ivs pokemons and spamming in every channel so new players would feel cheated, it is about balance. Do you realise no pokemon SHOULD EVER cost high than 1 million? And yet you are thinking those things do exist and want us to adapt in something that wasnt supposed to exist at all.

And the worst part: the rare rate of every new player thats staying in the game are starting to get used of this because they were told this is the right thing. Im sorry but i have to say this and im not being ignorant, im being realistic: A lot of old players didnt even know ev existed, a lot of old players are lazy to read mechanics and such despite many leaving to ex's staff game AND returning because they thought shiny iv 1-31 was the wrong shiny iv (due getting used of pwo). In other hand, a lot of old players are adapting very well due smogon and showdown (which every old player reading my post should be trying it right now). Pokemons works with "at least" ivs to do its job. Old players were supposed to be the new player's hero and their handbook but they are just scaring new players used of how true pokemon should be.

What do you want from staff if the majority doesnt want to change? Its funny that a lot request new stuffs to come but dont like how they are (or arent even aware how they are). If we keep going this way they could even release alola but their effort would be wasted for nothing at all. Why do you think pwo is in beta for almost 10 years? Why do you think even competitive old players left? THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY WE, OLD PLAYERS DO HAVE TO APPLY A FINAL DECISION. Arent you aware how tight we are becoming for this game? If we keep following this path even the programmers will leave, cause from a programmer's side of view, this yo-yo stuff does not give results so why keep doing a thing to have a time wasted? I'm really not understanding in why people dont get this knowing reliquinquishing the past is a way for a better future and this applies to real life guys, please tell me why a virtual game shouldnt follow this mandatory rule. It's like if you are bonded with a small cake knowing the staff wants to give you a bigger and better cake and you still dont want put away the lesser cake because you are bonded with and IS complaining in why they dont give you the biggie one already.

 

[mati-leo]

relloing ivs? what about someone paid 25m for shiny 32ivs ??? even if you would get good ivs it wont give you youre 25m back. im here since 2012 but my account since 2014 and i have 32ivs which i pay with daycare ive done and selling items without cheating. like every new players you have to adjust yourself to the game its not supposed to be the game to adjust to you. when i comeback in 2014 i had nothing no money no bike and no friend left active. ive started from nothing and today have plenty of friends and stuff and money. just do the same

Future Sight already gave you the answer here:

Spoiler

Regarding natures and old IVs: Accept the fact that you've all been playing a broken game all these years. I am an old player. I have several hundred Pokemon. I have entire collections of 32 IVed battlers and collectibles. I have many level 99/100 Pokemon without natures that can perform well as they are. But i know that that isn't how things are supposed to be. We all know that. This game was supposed to have natures and we've all created a market based on an incomplete system. The staff needs to stop trying to please the 10-20 people that log in everyday and add natures that will bring new players to pwo.
We've all worked very hard to get where we are, yes. But all this time, we've only invested in short term joys. We all knew that the game, and each and every Pokemon every captured has been incomplete without a randomised nature.
Gather some courage. Do what's right instead of creating a complicated system trying to please everyone and allowing everyone to retain or increase value of every Pokemon they have. We already regret the 28+ IV system. Do you want to have more regrets in the future with overly complicated nature assignment system?

Spoiler

32 ivs were not supposed to exist, yet you paid a lot for an unexistant feature you knew it was impossible so you could feel unique. Any game has the right to change everything at their will, if the path is the right one. You have donated, not bought, both have different meanings. We're just lucky not every game we donate think that way out of sudden but they should. Still, if you want to feel unique just room hack a game and spawn every shiny pokemon you want.

Right now we have new players coming, but PWO's fate is currently being critical. Would we keep feeding the same thing over and over again for just a bunch of players like Future Sight said or cant we just accept and read the facts thus opening the PWO in a worldwide way? Please accept the fact this is not related in getting better ivs pokemons and spamming in every channel so new players would feel cheated, it is about balance. Do you realise no pokemon SHOULD EVER cost high than 1 million? And yet you are thinking those things do exist and want us to adapt in something that wasnt supposed to exist at all.

And the worst part: the rare rate of every new player thats staying in the game are starting to get used of this because they were told this is the right thing. Im sorry but i have to say this and im not being ignorant, im being realistic: A lot of old players didnt even know ev existed, a lot of old players are lazy to read mechanics and such despite many leaving to ex's staff game AND returning because they thought shiny iv 1-31 was the wrong shiny iv (due getting used of pwo). In other hand, a lot of old players are adapting very well due smogon and showdown (which every old player reading my post should be trying it right now). Pokemons works with "at least" ivs to do its job. Old players were supposed to be the new player's hero and their handbook but they are just scaring new players used of how true pokemon should be.

What do you want from staff if the majority doesnt want to change? Its funny that a lot request new stuffs to come but dont like how they are (or arent even aware how they are). If we keep going this way they could even release alola but their effort would be wasted for nothing at all. Why do you think pwo is in beta for almost 10 years? Why do you think even competitive old players left? THIS IS THE OPPORTUNITY WE, OLD PLAYERS DO HAVE TO APPLY A FINAL DECISION. Arent you aware how tight we are becoming for this game? If we keep following this path even the programmers will leave, cause from a programmer's side of view, this yo-yo stuff does not give results so why keep doing a thing to have a time wasted? I'm really not understanding in why people dont get this knowing reliquinquishing the past is a way for a better future and this applies to real life guys, please tell me why a virtual game shouldnt follow this mandatory rule. It's like if you are bonded with a small cake knowing the staff wants to give you a bigger and better cake and you still dont want put away the lesser cake because you are bonded with and IS complaining in why they dont give you the biggie one already.

You both are right and wrong at the same time. The worst part of these kind of comments is that doesn't matter what argument could be given, some people will never accept the fact that the other guy has a point (if there's one).

First of all, a game won't die because of 10/20 players with good stuff, you'll see *pro/old/rich* players in any game you join, if seeing players with good stuff/old stuff/OP stuff makes people leave, then all the games are going to die soon or late.
Anybody here played *Destiny* ? its a 1st person shooter. I had nothing when I started there, the pvp mode was a crap, OP weapons (it had bugs), rich players, etc...yet I managed to be on the top, it took time, as it takes in every game you join and ENJOY, as it should. I wasn't scared... as you say, I was motivated by trying to outdo those good players, not crying around asking the staff to stabilize the game because I do not want things to be difficult for me and Im too busy to hunt for EPIC CATCHABLES by myself.

You're new and poor ? Ask to someone with experience wich poke has a good value and wich ones are good for battles, then go hunt these pokes by yourself, sell a bunch and keep some for you. If you ask me, its easy, because you'll catch an epic soon or late.
Someone has a Shiny Kingdra 32 ivs ? So what ? Go get a bagon epic ivs and kill that pink dragon, ofc you won't catch it in 10 mins, but thats the point...right? If someone wants an epic team from the night to the morning then that person choosed the wrong game.

Every pokemon has a counter, doesn't matter if your opponent has a shiny team, someone with good ivs non shinys and a good strategy should be able to face any player. So, a bunch of ivs won't make the difference at all.
Natures will make the difference, put random natures to every existant poke and thats it, easy enough, no one will end hurt.


So... if the game dies it won't be because a bunch of players wanted things to be A or B. It will be because the managers aren't putting enough effort on this.
I work 8hs per day or more because I have my own *entrepreneurship* (Idk if thats the right word) so, yet I had the time to make a give away, yet...having a girlfriend, a job and a family I have time to play on my pc/ps3 every day, every week. So, If you want this to be alive, then you'll put some more dedication, wich is something Im not seeing right now in pwo.
Choose a bunch of active and mature players, train them to be a part of the staff, say them to organice events every week, give them the power to do that, then you'll see how the community grows up. If pwo is dying its not because I had a Shiny Drago, it is because the staff->players contact is dying. So, you as players, as realistic players, take a look around.

 

[Nyx~]

Indeed the problem is not the old ivs so stop whining on and on about it... nuff said-_-  :dodgy:

 

[Rigaudon]

So... if the game dies... It will be because the managers aren't putting enough effort on this.

This is accurate. Not the whole "staff aren't dedicated" bit, but sinking and swimming really is on us. Frankly, while we will do our best to keep things fair for people, irrational demands are not what is going to stop us from doing things: demotivation will. Working on PWO is legitimately hard enough to be a job, and people PAY others for jobs because it's damn near impossible to get people to do said jobs otherwise. Unlike giveaways where all participants will be neutral/happy, there is a decided lack of joy in having to pick what we shoot with a proverbial bullet when balanced features conflict with old, bad decisions. That and the things PWO really needs takes a hell of a lot more time.

[I'm rambling below at this point, but I love talking about this stuff, so here goes.]

As for choosing a bunch of active and mature players, that is easier said than done. Finding the combination of reliable, logical, and skilled worksmen when we can offer no compensation is enough to tear one's hair out. I will see a lot of people who are stuck in their own narrative and only want to get into staff to try and "take over" for us in disregard for our own process, as if things were somehow so obvious and that we're sitting around unable to think for ourselves; as if the several years we spent learning hard lessons (sometimes VERY hard lessons) and acting on them meant nothing. This discussion absolutely shows that things are not that simple. Frankly if a person can't respect us enough to talk to us before embarking on such a mission, I can't respect them enough to hire them.

At other times we will promote people who say they want to be staff, say they want the game to succeed, who players think are perfect for the job, and then they just drop off the face of the earth. This includes people in the unofficial "event creation" subsection of staff. Yes, even people supposed to be doing mini-events can just drop off the face of the earth, because it is real work. They get demoted, I have to try and find new people, and maybe I finally get one person who follows through and they become part of the core group we have now that reliably does stuff. That core of people is what is holding PWO together, and beyond my own attempts to simply organize them, it is up to existing staff to follow through with the plan. Getting people to do that is not easy. I can sit here and interact with people all I want, becoming a broken record, but managers interacting with players means nothing if the rest of staff also don't pitch in to follow through on those promises and "what ifs". And frankly, I would kill for having a lot of dedicated, rational, moral, skilled and civil people.  

---

As for this discussion, I see a lot of people talking AT eachother instead of WITH eachother. Where are the breakdown of points and suggested improvements? Yes there are a few, but this is a brainstorming session that otherwise can't meet a conclusion. Imagine if staff had a brainstorm session where all we did was just throw ideas at eachother, state a few points and never iterate a design on those points, etc. It would be post after post of just dancing around the main point and we would never get anything done. Throwing ideas against the wall doesn't mean anything if you don't take note of what sticks and why. Take an idea, explain what pieces of it have promise, what pieces don't work, suggest something alternate based on the things that have promise, and talk it out. I've been following this topic since the start, and there have been a lot of intriguing lines of thought, yet almost everyone is running straight past them in a rush.

What are the pros/cons of ability capsules in the Battle Tower?
What are the pros/cons of locking 28+ IV pokemon out of a breeding process?
For people talking about refunds, what would be a fair compensation that WOULDN'T unbalance the game?
What's up with regular Pokemon that happen to have good IVs and an important 32 IV, like speed?
How would a reroll work in a fair manner, if that's even possible?
How will all of these ideas effect the economy? Would it be in a good way, bad way, little bit of both? What is the economy even supposed to look like?

I've been watching this topic for about a week and very few people have even tried to answer these things let alone go in-depth with them, which is necessary for such a delicate system of balance. I'd rather not answer what these are myself for obvious reasons, especially since I'm really interested in seeing what people come up with. This ties back to staff -> player interaction. How am I supposed to know who is rational, proactive, and civil if I interfere as often as a fretful mom/give away the answers?

---

EDIT:
In light of Nyx's post, I will explain some problems with Old IVs. It'll be oversimplified but it's better than the potential of people running into this discussion without understanding why guaranteed 28+ IVs are design problems.

Old Ivs are mainly a problem because when they are a norm, they necessitate shinies in PvP simply by outclassing everything else. When epic growlithe can't compete with shiny growlithe, or rather epic Gengar can't compete with Shiny Gengar AT ALL TIMES, it becomes a problem of both diversity and wealth-gating, even worse than now if allowed to compound. tl;dr by making common shinies required for all team comps, it removes the option to get creative and make a good team out of things you can find, even when you aren't lucky enough for that sweet shiny RNG or you aren't rich. There used to be a time that if you didn't use shiny Pokemon, you would just automatically lose to an evenly-skilled opponent, and it's because the bonuses conferred onto shinies at that time were too high and outclassed everything else. It required wealth to PvP even more than wealth is needed now. But as a minority, and as Old IVs should, in theory be less of a problem once diversity of natures/abilities comes in. Their not being extremely common makes it not too terrible beyond the fact that IVs are the only power level on Pokemon right now. I imagine what PWO will always struggle with are high-viability, then-common shinies such as 28+ Gyarados, simply because there are so many of them.

tl;dr Old IVs when very common is bad. Old IVs when unusual isn't good/ideal at all but maybe tolerable in smaller numbers. Old IVs had to be cut out of the game for the game's health, but Old IV's main negative impact has been on player perspective and possibly the economy (we may have replaced wealth-gating PvP with economic gaps).

 

[Jinji]

[Glow=#9932CC]It's wrong that Shiny Pokémon are so superior. Gengar aren't supposed to sparkle - the shimmers make it difficult to hide in shadows ;p [/Glow]

 

[justme1306]

players do sleep clause and switching clause so if they wanna do pvp without shiny old ivs they just can tell before the battle. i mean we dont remove poke with sleep we put a clause on it so only 1 poke at time can sleep. now what ive seen from few days people are selling-trading old ivs to get money and they wait before buying...if u want my opinion its even worst for the economy ...even me with almost 80m i wont buy any poke with old ivs or collection pokemon since it might be removed or reolling. so im selling my stuff and get money for it. and if i do it mean im probably not alone to do it so get ready for even worst economy.

and after we gonna remove money of old players cause they played more than new players? cause economy wasnt the same? lol thats crazy i mean im playing other game like matis say and u cant beat everyone without grinding and slowly get ur stuff.

 

[Tendou]

players do sleep clause and switching clause so if they wanna do pvp without shiny old ivs they just can tell before the battle. i mean we dont remove poke with sleep we put a clause on it so only 1 poke at time can sleep. now what ive seen from few days people are selling-trading old ivs to get money and they wait before buying...if u want my opinion its even worst for the economy ...even me with almost 80m i wont buy any poke with old ivs or collection pokemon since it might be removed or reolling. so im selling my stuff and get money for it. and if i do it mean im probably not alone to do it so get ready for even worst economy.

and after we gonna remove money of old players cause they played more than new players? cause economy wasnt the same? lol thats crazy i mean im playing other game like matis say and u cant beat everyone without grinding and slowly get ur stuff.

One stuff about the economy always was "the more broken a pokemon were in an op way the more it would cost". Electrode's price highly increased when players whose knew what the move did started to felt the odd damage, RIGHT AFTER THAT. Dont you see what this means? It means every old player werent aware about their own pokemon's stuff, a guy had to said in public channels prolly when the issue was around for a week or more, why they didnt raise the price right when this issue happened? The answer is clear: lazy to understand stuffs. The price then decreased when the issue was fixed, electrode was just an example in how players got used in this weird way and many pokemons were victim of this issue. I simply do not want 20 years of PWO being based of this as we made it to be TEN already. Why cant I see pokemons like Ledian having its price ncreased knowing it nows work properly? Are you even aware how annoying this pokemon is now for pwo nowadays? I just hope its price wont increase just because of this vague sentence because the prices always increased using vague references.

Do you want to know why I think you guys are most interested in quantity over quality? Lets use yourself as example:
1-  why would you pay tons of pokedollars/tokens from shiny ts pokemons knowing the majority would be t1-t2 once Hoenn gets introduced, are you saying you were supposed to complain you wasted too many time/money when Hoenn was supposed to be around or are you just thinking you could make the same money you did before hoenn? Please dont tell me "they promised us hoenn for ages" because this topic is exactly the answer from that.
2- Knowing we were told the game would evolve to match the majority of handheld's mechanics why did you keep buying pokemons with wrong HPs or even considering the point they would be nerfed later on? In my point of view you just bought a game knowing it would get an offsale a day later. Are you saying you werent aware about the upcoming stuffs even demanding them to happen?

Old Ivs are currently unbalancing the system, a system is made of nerfs and buffs as this is balance. If you cannot accept the nerf then dont demand buffs. I'm just saying that because throughout years watching your behaviour you hated the weeks of shiny farming and were complaining about the insane amount of days you were supposed to catch one despite following the mechanics. My point isnt about "hurr derp didnt you know shiny is like this from handhelds?" it is about cant you see if shiny ivs were working as intended abilities like Illuminate moves like sweet scent or items like Shiny Charm (it would increase the shiny rate by 600% with MS activated!!!) were supposed to be working/introduced for years already? We were supposed to have all of these even with a neutral nature and shiny farming would be easy hence why I can only see quantity focus here, not quality focus. Why dont i even see anybody against this "no dead fate for old ivs" talking about this or even realizing all of those stuffs that are trying to make a debut? Im talking about this considering the fact shinies old could be still a thing through a legitimate and balanced way and the game would have evolved better (and we wouldnt be discussing about nerfing/locking shiny olds).

Regarding the balance, we have a lot of our own methods to suggest so they could watch how they will balance that however, if you want the game to evolve this issue must be addressed. If you want to stop playing, fine, its a loss and losses arent good but acting like that knowing this change would allow players whose play pokemons in the entire world to play they wouldnt mind losing 20-40 players in exchange of thousands unless I was taught wrong in my life about thousands not being higher than dozens.

Old ivs could also have their HP messed and it was something you never did mention, only about "ill lose money and my time" stuff so I guess in your point of view, they are just collection purpose only as this games been a collection game for ages.

1- Introduce disobeying system: Old Shinies (when i said old, i mean the ID before the 20-31 change) would have 30%-50% guaranteed rate of disobeying the trainer, nature could be changed. Ya dont care about mechanics, just do want devs to add them so ya all wont bother this.
2- Lock every old shiny in their respective accounts, if the money was the issue and you dont want neither sell or buy then the shinies ended up  as a "showcase game" where you are just loggin on the game to shout to the channels you have a shiny old. Nature could be changed with this method.
3- Create a pwo only clause, the Shiny Old clause. This game has no clauses coded, sleep clause doesnt even exist in pwo we just manually use it but clauses are server coding acting automatically before joining a battle. Shiny Clause would allow only one shiny old pokemon being able to use in battle at once. Nature could be changed with this method. This could be for battlers, im talking a lot about old players but we have the minority whose knows all of this stuff still playing but they are also starting to think twice about leaving
4- No natures for shiny old. You guys could keep on with this Old Bugged Age Circus in future but only to yourselves. You have bought them without even thinking about future mechanics so why do you demand them to have a future now if you have purchased just to feel better than somebody else?

I wont even mention about breeding because this is a mechanic that have no place in this game unless if its "a sacrifice to generate an egg"stuff game.

I do not want to sound ignorant or such, I do want to let you guys know this crappy stuff survived for TOO MUCH TIME ALREADY.

 

[Nyx~]

or just make old iv shinies get a mark and they are indeed non-tradeable and cant be used for battle.. just for collection ;p