Shiny IV change.

[LanceDM]

You're wrong, we are not talking about Shiny Salamences with 286 IVs spd, Shiny Starmies with 386 IVs sp.def and Shiny Kingdras with 299 IVs spd! Its completely different to what happened witht he OLD shiny boost. THEY ALL have a counter, its a diff of a FEW IVs only ! But as eco, hof,darcia, pe,samm,etc,etc,etc have said, we expend time and time to get 1 extra iv on spd or any other stat needed. If EVs and natures are coming, then this change isnt needed at all (wiping current shinys), because the power will depend on the STARTEGY you make when is about choosing a stat to put EVs and etc. How come that my Non shiny gengar can kill Shiny gengars then ? Wow, so what are you exactly saying ? Where's the big danger of seeing us with our current shinys ? don't exaggerate this, my drago can't even kill a snorlax, its a pokemon like ANY other and thats why Im angry, you are going to hurt us for something minimal, an small difference that will cost us years of dedication... its not a big thing and don't make us look as selfish gamers, because we're not. Pay attention.

If we are testing, as many of the oppositors said, then lets test keeping current shinys and wiping the new ones... lets see what happens. I havent seen my shiny drago surviving against a lapras, mamoswine, steelix... I hope you understand where you're wrong,

No one will give you a prize for being in favor of this idea. Instead going against us, you can shoot an idea to make a balance and make everyone happy.

- I agree with changing ivs from 22 - 31, but keeping the current shinys as they are, as to me it wouldnt affect new players and is a shot in our b-lls .

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

Agreed, we're being made to be the bad, selfish gamers who don't want to see progress and want to have a major advantage if there is progress because w'ere somehow self-entitled. Look, we just don't want our pokemon that we've worked so hard for to be inferior to new pokemon. You might think that having all iv's 28+ gives us the advantage but a Kingdra with i'vs like this 22 23 25 26 31 Will still beat a kingdra with these iv's 31 31 31 31 30... so it's not giving us any respect if you take an older players kingdra who would be an equal match against newer max speed kingdras even with lower stats, and lower their iv's so that a new kingdra with max speed will wipe the floor with it, at least our current king's will be able to beat them 50% of the time like it is right now. And this goes for ANY pokemon. So get it out of your head that we don't want to see progress. Besides that there are people with non shiny pokemon with just as good iv's of shinies, would you say that it's unfair for those people to have them and lower their iv's too? The only difference is the color. Jesus, even if the iv range was lower for new shinies there would still be shinies found with iv's to match our current ones.

 

[CheckeredZebra]

I'm going to throw my opinion here as an ex staff.


I'm on the side of compromising for losses and leaning more toward not heavily nerfing/randomizing current shinies (but NOT in the way of IVs as others suggesting). I understand what you all don't want to lose, why you don't want to lose it, and others have been exploring ways to make it worthwhile. But several of you don't seem interested in that.

I will say that as understanding and patient as I at least try to be, some of ya'll are being just as rude as you're accusing others of. As hard as it is, people in this topic need to calm down and think of this as a game developer and not as "omg the staff don't care about us."

To put it more bluntly:
If you believe staff do not care, you're putting a lot of stock into utter bull-crap and frankly I am insulted. Perhaps some post came off wrong or unclear at some point, and that's fine. What's not ok is to keep tearing at staff throats/claiming that no staff understand, while they try discuss ideas with you and your own opinions/suggestions.

Teck has been trying at every corner to find compromises and is discussing compromises for a completely hypothetical situation and yet you all insist you're being personally attacked or that you're being ignored. People are aiming their personal fear and outrage they got from just thinking about the concept of slightly changed shinies and throwing all that emotion at the staff, despite most of the staff being generally diplomatic. Especially in the face of so much pointless, unprovoked venom/ultimatums.

Think about it. Several potentially viable systems were posted a few pages back and instead of exploring the possibilities you all ignored it so that you could keep attacking eachother or cherrypicking parts of posts to argue about. :/

 

[HitmonFonty]

I am not calling anyone selfish, I am just stating my opinion and asking you also take it into account rationally. My main point is that the game should progress evenly across the board instead of leaving outdated ideas in, if it is decided they are outdated. And if the the change is as small as you make it out to be then why the big deal anyway?

I would guess that I have played as many hours in PWO as most vets here. I have invested most of that time in hunting and I won't consider any of that time wasted if the suggestions being debated here get implemented. As I said and you seem to be agreeing with (by saying the change is so small) that any gains here in game progress and balance will outweigh any negatives that go along with it.

Anyway, I've had my say and I think this debate has run its course anyway. There are clearly two sides here with opinions pretty much set in stone and I don't imagine more discussion will produce any further tangible results, especially as most will not read all that was written previously now that the post has become as large as it has.

 

[psychosamm]

Well as far as i can tell Teck was just saying what she would personally do, not that she was planning on doing it. So i won't go into a panic, but i will say this; there is no need to alter old shinies, they aren't on a level that would be unattainable for new shinies. New shinies having all 28+ ivs is completely possible, it just won't be guaranteed. Our current shinies won't be "OP", not even close. Like eco said a S Kingdra with all mediocre stats but max speed will always beat a S kingdra 28+ without max speed. If it were OP there would be zero chance of that happening.

Things change in betas, sure. But it's also very common for companies to reward their loyal testers and players and let them keep some perks simply for being loyal. Changing current pokemon's IVs will do nothing but outrage your fanbase, and for what? For nothing, that's what. To be honest i think you should be satisfied enough that we've come to an agreement at all with lowering shiny IVs, i personally was totally against it at first. Let's be happy with the inch for now, and let's not try taking a mile.

 

[LanceDM]

And if the the change is as small as you make it out to be then why the big deal anyway?
(by saying the change is so small)

I'll try to be more clear, its small, removing the current ivs on our effort (our old shinys) will ruin us, most of us, depends. But, if they aren't removed, no one will end hurt, thats what I meant and eco/samm explained it pretty well. They are not gods, but we expend lot of time to get these anyway, get my point now? I felt the need of explain this again. Jolteon will KO any starmie with its thunder, no matter if it has 31 ivs sp.def and if its shiny or non shiny, just an example, I could give you a large list.

New shinies having all 28+ ivs is completely possible, it just won't be guaranteed. Our current shinies won't be "OP", not even close. Like eco said a S Kingdra with all mediocre stats but max speed will always beat a S kingdra 28+ without max speed. If it were OP there would be zero chance of that happening.

Things change in betas, sure. But it's also very common for companies to reward their loyal testers and players and let them keep some perks simply for being loyal. Changing current pokemon's IVs will do nothing but outrage your fanbase, and for what? For nothing, that's what. To be honest i think you should be satisfied enough that we've come to an agreement at all with lowering shiny IVs, i personally was totally against it at first. Let's be happy with the inch for now, and let's not try taking a mile.

Absolutely agreed with the 1st point, wich is what Im trying to explain.
-
This is happening right now with a Ps3 game, wich is free, and still beta. We are talking about Sony.

 

[XBOCT]

Blame me, if you want but those are auto-called "vets","pros" etc.. are being selfish with this thing. Tecknician is just trying to bring some balance in the game with those OP shinies and still the shinies will owning against a normal pokemon, and you just trying to have some get some advantage of it no matter what. If Teck change the Ivs, gives random nature to actual pokemon and decrease the ivs of actual shinies is just to bring a balance, you are not even giving an oportunity to the new people to compete in the battle scene just with the excuse: "Ohh I've have been playing so long this game I dont want a newbie kick my *** because the staff made a balance in the game", "I'm the rechiest guy I don't want my actual stuff lose his price" etc... Just to remind something You are here for test, help to make the game more enjoyable and fair/balanced not for complain about a change/update ( that could be important in the future ) will ruin me, I'm just thinking that some players only want his own benefit, still pwning those noob with more advantage than ever and they are not thinking about what will be better for the game they think what will be better for ME, if the staff make the change will be for everyone not just for you.

Those who thinks about they will lose price of his pokemon if they nerf the actuals pokemon, just think, no matter how many years you put in this game, how many effort and how many money because at the end you will lose everything when the Beta ends you won't see nothing of your stuff when the test end, but think that giving ideas to make the game more enjoyable, balanced and playable when the Beta ends those thing will remain in the game and you probably will play, yes because you are addict to this game! Let the game progress at the moment you'll see like something harmfull but maybe a it could important in future.

Spoiler

Maybe my english gave you cancer but thats all I got.

 

[LanceDM]

Spoiler

Maybe my english gave you cancer but thats all I got.

[/font]

Balance means balance, if a good amount of players don't agree then is not a balance, so your teory is a bit wrong. Take time to read what we wrote before saying what you've said.

 

[Merse]

The thing, merse... is that we are here, trying to make a BALANCE, people like you will never understand, same as these who were banned. And don't talk about veterans like that, check my post, I've been giving ideas and I agreed with changing ivs, but losing years of work is a diff thing, SHINYS are already differents in this game so, the fact that pwo is beta is not a good excuse.

Mati, you're one of the few exceptions, and because you are, you shouldn't feel like my post was addressed to you.
And it's generally an issue that I see that many of you act like this idea would be directly against you, planned and supported by one single purpose, to ruin what you have built up in years... Why would anyone want to do that?
One of the interesting arguments I found among the repertoire of the opponents of this idea, that it wouldn't help the balance, but it would ruin it. Although I couldn't find any reason why would be this change "ruin" the balance. No Pokemon would become OP, so the balance wouldn't be ruined, only shifted, but it is true, maybe not for the favor of those who built their teams on shinys.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

I just want to make a quick post because I was battling tonight and came across a perfect axample of how shiny commons can actually help noobs in their current state. This guy was rocking 4 shiny commons, a HR, and 1 S Rare: S Magneton, S Primeape, S Kingdra, Salamence, S Mamoswine, and S Steelix
http://prntscr.com/1plthq
http://prntscr.com/1pltwu

Obviously this is a team you could make under 40m depending on how good salamence is, and it kind of goes to show how it would hurt someone that doesn't even have super rare epics or shinies with perfect stats. Just thought it might be interesting for you guys who think the current system more favors top tier players (no I'm not addressing anyone in particular)

 

[Tecknician]

I don't have problems keeping current shinies IVs the way they are, but then they shouldn't be able to choose their own natures (atleast not all at once right away).

So assuming the shinies iv are kept, what would you want to do with natures then? randomize, or none to start with.

 

[CheckeredZebra]

I'd still personally rather have an edited IV range with the ability (edit: for all players, old, new and future) to choose the nature through some balanced means. e,e
But I'm probably in a minority.

[/broken record]

 

[Merse]

I have no opinion about hanging the IVs, I would accept both scenario. I would ilke however if we would be able to chose nature for a few of our current Pokes.

 

[MasterOfTheHunt]

I don't have problems keeping current shinies IVs the way they are, but then they shouldn't be able to choose their own natures (atleast not all at once right away).

So assuming the shinies iv are kept, what would you want to do with natures then? randomize, or none to start with.

How about all shinys are completely randomized while keeping the current IVs the same.

On playerdex you can access an item that will work on a Pokemon every X amount of days (Preferably 30 days)
This will work similar to how you edit moves via Pdex, you would be able to pay a decent sum of money, or use tokens, or gain this through in game quests.
This gives you control over your nature but at the same time not complete control. When the item or whatever it is randomizes nature, the only one it wont change to is the one you are currently at.

 

[HeavyPetter]

I don't have problems keeping current shinies IVs the way they are, but then they shouldn't be able to choose their own natures (atleast not all at once right away).

So assuming the shinies iv are kept, what would you want to do with natures then? randomize, or none to start with.

How about all shinys are completely randomized while keeping the current IVs the same.

On playerdex you can access an item that will work on a Pokemon every X amount of days (Preferably 30 days)
This will work similar to how you edit moves via Pdex, you would be able to pay a decent sum of money, or use tokens, or gain this through in game quests.
This gives you control over your nature but at the same time not complete control. When the item or whatever it is randomizes nature, the only one it wont change to is the one you are currently at.

Thumbs up for this suggestion, it seems like a perfect alternative IMO. I even think that the nature-changing possibility is not really a must, I would be fine just to have them randomized.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

@ Masterofthehunt
Wouldn't current shinies being 28+ and new shinies being weak little girls actually make the old shinies OP. I mean they should at least be able to compete against the old shinies. if you're not happy with 22+ then maybe lower it a little bit but i don't think past <20

 

[Puar]

I dont like the Idea of changing the current shinies stats at all.
However they are to be randomized I would be able to live with 25-31.
This way the chances of them becoming worse is the same as the chances of them becoming better.
I went out of my way and made sure all my shinies were wild caught (not cheap) and for them to all of a sudden be just as valuable as the token store shinies is just ridiculous to me.
Being able to choose the natures or not. They do not make up for this drastic change in stats.

I vote keep them all the same or make the possibility for them to become worse the same as the chance to become better.

 

[AlexLouisArmstrong]

puar if some of our shinies are mostly 30-31 iv with max speed how could they have an equal chance of becoming better than they already are? Is there really better than that?
if anything there would be an equal chance of staying just as epic, which would defeat the purpose of lowering them anyway... just don't touch them and they'll fade away with time.

 

[Merse]

On playerdex you can access an item that will work on a Pokemon every X amount of days (Preferably 30 days)
This will work similar to how you edit moves via Pdex, you would be able to pay a decent sum of money, or use tokens, or gain this through in game quests.

Either I'm missing something, or it's basically the same idea as Peace_Enforcer's. And I have the same problem with it.

I dont like the Idea of changing the current shinies stats at all.
However they are to be randomized I would be able to live with 25-31.
This way the chances of them becoming worse is the same as the chances of them becoming better.
I went out of my way and made sure all my shinies were wild caught (not cheap) and for them to all of a sudden be just as valuable as the token store shinies is just ridiculous to me.

I think that the stat change should affect token shinys as well, so the gap between wild and TS shinys would remain.

 

[Orean]

On playerdex you can access an item that will work on a Pokemon every X amount of days (Preferably 30 days)
This will work similar to how you edit moves via Pdex, you would be able to pay a decent sum of money, or use tokens, or gain this through in game quests.

Either I'm missing something, or it's basically the same idea as Peace_Enforcer's. And I have the same problem with it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you believe it promotes the pay-to-win viability due to potential monetary costs (not direct-token costs), then I'd have to ask: is this due to the proximate mindset that more hefty amount of pokemoney would be needed to expend into the service—on par with the more expensive Pokemon in the market? If so, it sounds like it's under the impression that hefty amount of Pokemoney would be charged to use it, thereof an amount that would be inviable to earn without token-trading.

While a direct-token price may be more implausible, an inexpensive monetary requirement can be workable that doesn't curtail the affordability of the feature to non-donators. The consensus is, of course, that the usability of this feature should be constraintive, but if the pay-to-win concern looms over it (which it easily does, due to token-trading being the most prolific moneymaker), then perhaps the item's claimability should be restricted by other means?

Time cooldowns and PVE challenges for obtaining the item, supplemented by a reasonably affordable monetary requirement, have all been suggested as means of obtaining the item. Nature-reselection sounds like it's only viably operable on playerdex, but the required item can still be claimable without gearing predominance to the donators.