Recommendations for the token store.

[EcoWOLFrb]

Hello, I've been doing some thinking about buying pokemon from the token store, and have found some issues I think should be discussed. To begin I'd like to point out the low cost of UC pokes if they're not Uber or Epic. People used to pay much more than 3m for a bad Slaking or Swamp ect ect... and to think that someone paid 15 tokens, which is equivalent to 30m in pokemoney, just to loose so much on the investment is hard to swallow at least for me. I would move that token pokemon be reduced in price if such a lackluster market will only allow such minimal offerings for the non epic, average UC. Now I realize the market did this on it's own, and buying UC's from the store is in essence a gamble, and that it would provide less income to help the server keep itself running...but I believe with lower prices on these UC's people would simply buy more of them, closing the income gap.

The other Issue I'd like to address is the shiny chance of UC's. Now I am informed that the chances will be changing for the new playerdex, but in my opinion it won't be nearly enough change. As it stands I'm aware the current probability of a UC being shiny is the same as a wild in-game encounter. I believe this is flawed, as a person has to pay an additional two tokens just to hold such a chance. I would move that one of these two options be implemented:

A- The shiny chance of UC's for people willing to dish out an additional 2 tokens becomes substantially higher, to make it a viable chance of having one. I'm not talking 1 out of 10...but it would be nice to see a new shiny UC pop up on forums every now and then. It shouldn't be so rare, and hopeless to achieve a goal to have one. Not only would this benefit players, it would benefit PWO, as more players would be willing to gamble the additional 2 tokens.

B- Make the shiny chance available without the additional 2 tokens needed. I see no reason why 15 tokens wouldn't be enough to grant a player a normal chance, same as in game to have a shiny. Especially if it's so far fetched as 1 in 8000 or so. Can anyone honestly say that it wouldn't make for a better player environment? Is the purpose of this game not to do so? And just as the future update will, I see no reason why players with MS shouldn't have a higher chance in the token store at all. It would also substitute the lack of shiny chance income from the token store with the amount of players that would buy MS for a naturally increased chance of a shiny from the token store.

Being that shiny UC's were briefly available for a mere 25 tokens I don't think I'm being unreasonable in the propositions, hopefully both staff and players will converse about this, as they should in all decisions regarding the improvement of this game...in order to improve the experience for everyone. Thank you for reading, please feel encouraged to participate in the discussion.

 

[matileo19]

Hello, I've been doing some thinking about buying pokemon from the token store, and have found some issues I think should be discussed. To begin I'd like to point out the low cost of UC pokes if they're not Uber or Epic. People used to pay much more than 3m for a bad Slaking or Swamp ect ect... and to think that someone paid 15 tokens, which is equivalent to 30m in pokemoney, just to loose so much on the investment is hard to swallow at least for me. I would move that token pokemon be reduced in price if such a lackluster market will only allow such minimal offerings for the non epic, average UC. Now I realize the market did this on it's own, and buying UC's from the store is in essence a gamble, and that it would provide less income to help the server keep itself running...but I believe with lower prices on these UC's people would simply buy more of them, closing the income gap.

Slaking is always present in your examples . Lets talk about Beldum aka Metagross:
-I'll expend $15 dollars (16) to get 15 tokens, to get a Beldum. After buying it i'll check the stats, but its still lvl5 wich means that I can't be 100 % sure if its going to be good or just a crap, then I'll train it like 10 lvls and wala now I can (at least) see if it will be worth something or not. If it ends having pretty bad stats then I'll lose probably 15m in game, but if it ends having pretty good ivs (wich is not impossible, is all about luck) i'll end winning over 80m (probably more). The system is fine, there are lots of lapras, lots of charizards and you'll keep seing that a player sells an epic chari for over 50m, or an epic lapras for over 90m, epic is epic and a crap poke will keep being a crap poke.

The other Issue I'd like to address is the shiny chance of UC's. Now I am informed that the chances will be changing for the new playerdex, but in my opinion it won't be nearly enough change. As it stands I'm aware the current probability of a UC being shiny is the same as a wild in-game encounter. I believe this is flawed, as a person has to pay an additional two tokens just to hold such a chance. I would move that one of these two options be implemented:

A- The shiny chance of UC's for people willing to dish out an additional 2 tokens becomes substantially higher, to make it a viable chance of having one. I'm not talking 1 out of 10...but it would be nice to see a new shiny UC pop up on forums every now and then. It shouldn't be so rare, and hopeless to achieve a goal to have one. Not only would this benefit players, it would benefit PWO, as more players would be willing to gamble the additional 2 tokens.

B- Make the shiny chance available without the additional 2 tokens needed. I see no reason why 15 tokens wouldn't be enough to grant a player a normal chance, same as in game to have a shiny. Especially if it's so far fetched as 1 in 8000 or so. Can anyone honestly say that it wouldn't make for a better player environment? Is the purpose of this game not to do so? And just as the future update will, I see no reason why players with MS shouldn't have a higher chance in the token store at all. It would also substitute the lack of shiny chance income from the token store with the amount of players that would buy MS for a naturally increased chance of a shiny from the token store.

Being that shiny UC's were briefly available for a mere 25 tokens I don't think I'm being unreasonable in the propositions, hopefully both staff and players will converse about this, as they should in all decisions regarding the improvement of this game...in order to improve the experience for everyone. Thank you for reading, please feel encouraged to participate in the discussion.

Sorry I don't agree with this in a 100%, this has been discussed many times and the problem is:
- This will ruin the economy, we'll see players with real money runing the game, they are actually running the game buying stuff with tokens and stuff with real money via msn and we all know that its a true situation. How come that a player that was poor ends having more than a player that has been here for more than 4 years and always doing trades? There's a moment on wich you'll get stuck unless you find something in the grass (I am talking about a SHINY) otherwise you'll have to sacrifice 1 of your epic ucs/shinys to get money and etc, but those guys lol... they never lose stuff, you only see them getting more and more and that's pretty obvious, someday I'll get enought evidence to report each of them and I'll be happy . I am talking about many, not only players, they were turtlers in need of money and now they are the richest in pwo.

Resuming - The players with real money won't be so stupids to sell a S lapras/S Armaldo or any S UC you can imagine for only a few S rares, thats why this is a bad Idea.

- This is just my personal opinion , don't take it in a bad way, lets see what others think about.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

Well the problem is that the economy is already wrecked, and no longer will you see epic lapras or epic zards for 50-80m, only on rare occasions, if it's crazy good (which is extremely rare). I don't really think the staff have any problem with people selling tokens or trading Pokemon for epics, it's beneficial for both players and PWO, so the issue isn't the success of those who do so. Moreover, I didn't really intend to say that every S UC will be sold or anything, I'm not being personally biased...I just think S UC's should be more of a frequent sight here, more attainable.
The issue is that with the current situation...yes, if my Pokemon that I paid 15 dollars for is epic, I'll make a little more than if I just sold those tokens, but chances are it's either going to just be good, or bad...not epic. So in most cases I would loose money, and best case scenario (rarely) I make a decent amount more than if I simply sold the tokens.
But let's hear what some other people have to say about the token pokemon specifically.

 

[matileo19]

But let's hear what some other people have to say about the token pokemon specifically.

lol
Hmm will be hard anyway ... Is something like if we were asking to see the HRs rate reduced to a similar value to what the VRs rate is(similar, not equal) hunting for them won't be fun anymore, also seeing lots of ubers in game won't be fun, after beating the gyms and stuff, what else can we do? What's our goal? Mine for example is/was: a collection of 99s with uber stats, a collection of S commons, a collection of wins, the 1st goal is the hardest and is what we all want at one point, to get wins and to be a top battler, seeing this easier is not the best thing, we will cut a big sustance of pwo.

 

[CoolKnightST]

I just wonder why they did add slaking to the tokenstore in the first place. In the original game Slaking lost an lot of value due his Truant ability and the Truant ability from his first form. Without this ability he compleetly unballance PvP for the moment.

 

[matileo19]

I just wonder why they did add slaking to the tokenstore in the first place. In the original game Slaking lost an lot of value due his Truant ability and the Truant ability from his first form. Without this ability he compleetly unballance PvP for the moment.

And is a known situation, but in pwo Slaking is strong, thats why he is in the token store..

 

[Nikola]

-You aren't guaranteed of anything you dream about from token store. I can say that only reason why now people are buying from token store is a shiny chance and being OT of their pokemon. Of course we hope for nice stats pokemon but soon as we are hoping that means that we are not guaranteed of desired stats. You probably forgot that players are adapting the economy while PWO itself isn't. Paying 16 USD for a pokemon worth 5/15 millions pokemoney? No thanks lol. I will rather buy new external HDD though.
-I personally bought bunch of UCs but back then. I could sell them for 40/50 mils very easy. Price of a token was +5 mils and MS was 25 mils+ bunch of a shiny commons. Selling 15 tokens I was able to earn more then 75mils easy. Quiet nice Metagross or Slaking for 75 mils right?
-People are selling tokens now less then 1.8mils each which is absurd. What the hell I am saying here? Oh..one banned guy said that you can get token for 1.5 mil each in here and say goodbye to your 12mils. Selling 15 tokens you will get maximum of a 28 millions these days and I am pretty sure you can get desired UC pokemon for that.

-No matter how good your plan or idea is but I can't see that happening since players are coming with 999mils before they able to access trade city. What use do we have of buying anything? Take a look into money ranking few times per day and I am sure you will find something funny. Money is just coming from nowhere while nothing from PWO was given for it. No matter what you do to in order to save economy it will have no effect since players are exploiting and gaining mass money. They are even making money here for a living. Every measure taken to save economy will affect only us but it will not affect hackers to gain 1billion and put part of that money in circulation. There is a hope called "Hardcoreh's client". What will happen until then I don't know but until then something must be done. Either disable money trading or closing down the game until they make a fix. I don't want to suggest third thing in here since I don't want to make this whole debate about racism and let people calling me a racist. It would be insane to do nothing and let this happening every day. Billions of hacked money are going ingame every day while people who hacked same money are getting anything pwo related for return. How economy and market are supposed to work smooth while this is happening?
-Another thing is a trade section of those forums. Probably only thing why 90% of people are visiting the forums. Go make one post today and it will on page 5 next day. Totally unprofessional and primitive. I hope it gets closed then go and scratch your head Mr. Bump, Mr. Offer and Mr. Vendo.
-Disabling money trade or whole trade(in-game and playerdex deposit), closing trade section, closing down the game until new playerdex and client goes live and that other suggestion I don't want to tell in public for a reason named above but Reborn and Chocobo are familiar with it. Or we are going to let this happening every day for a few times?
Sorry for raging a bit above but I am furious.
Darcia~

 

[Boora]

if you ask me i agree with both of you at some level.
from one hand, its true, all the people that spend real money will controll the (S)UC and no one of them will sell it for just (S)rare+... that takes MONTHS to catch
but from the other hand, it already happening, if me or you (mati) dont have money we hunt for shinys, but other people just donate, so its not much of a diffrence
i can agree with the shiny chance without the extra 2 tokens and the rate staying as it is, the other idea is not so good in my opinion cause if you'll lower the rate,
more people will buy them i bulks til they get the shiny uc, and yes its good for pwo more income, but it'll ruin the game, cause these pokemons will be unobtanible, cause no one wil sell them for (S)hrs or vrs, why ? they simply can donate more and get both...
but if someone is dumb enough to keep buying 15token pokes for 1/8000 chance of shiny. will thats there own fault, and for the lucky one's, well good for them !
at least once in a while we'll see a shiny uc and the OT will be a lucky random and not a crazy cash cow lol
and about the in-game economy ,it is ruined, apart from 3-4 shiny commons all of them worth NOTHING and getting (S)rare takes weeks, so its almost impossible get good in the game without spending money which is kind of unfair, at least back then when i played it was way way more stable.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

I'd like to stay on topic, particularly about the UC's not the economy, I mean...if what you guys are saying is true, that it would ruin the economy because there would be more Shiny UC... aren't you contradicting yourselves in saying that the shiny UC's will never be sold? I realize that there would be an increase in UC pokemon, which would cause a decrease in value, but what I proposed was lowering the cost for UC's from what it is now. So what would be the problem with UC's being more readily available for everyone (just like hr's are now) and some people having Shiny UC's. I honestly don't see a problem with them not being sold by their OT's...I certainly wouldn't... that's why you try for one.
I certainly wouldn't want to make this a debate about how token sellers are better or worse than traders, I played until just a few weeks ago only trading pokemon and I gained over 80m simply doing so. It's certainly do-able to get rich doing so. But I recently got tired of people lowballing here and the obsession with "you have the BO" when someone puts out good offers. Because of this I'm starting to sell tokens, which is fine too...and it doesn't make sense to compare the two. Let's end the part about the economy if it's not directly related to the ideas I've proposed, and get back on topic.

 

[OGPokemaster]

Let's end the part about the economy if it's not directly related to the ideas I've proposed, and get back on topic.[/b]

Actually the economy has every thing to do with wat u proposed

To begin I'd like to point out the low cost of UC pokes if they're not Uber or Epic. People used to pay much more than 3m for a bad Slaking or Swamp ect ect... and to think that someone paid 15 tokens, which is equivalent to 30m in pokemoney, just to loose so much on the investment is hard to swallow at least for me.

Why do u think the value of pokemon that used to be worth millions has dropped?
-More players=More pokemon=Lower prices

if the economy wasnt in the crapper i doubt you'd have even thought about making this topic......

anyways i think increasing the SC for pokemon in the token store is a bad idea, shiny pokemon arent meant to be easy to get. Furthermore increasing the SC for the token store would lead to tons of shiny UC's and ppl who paid 100s of real world dollars or more trying to get a Shiny token store pokemon will feel cheated when tons of ppl can get them so easy now, the cost now for a shiny token store pokemon would drop faster then anything we seen b4.....anyways thts my input

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

Actually the economy has every thing to do with wat u proposed

Yes, I know it does, that's why I said if it wasn't directly related to my topic not to bring it up, as in... me not wanting people just ranting about the economy if it's not on topic.

Why do u think the value of pokemon that used to be worth millions has dropped?
-More players=More pokemon=Lower prices
anyways i think increasing the SC for pokemon in the token store is a bad idea, shiny pokemon arent meant to be easy to get. Furthermore increasing the SC for the token store would lead to tons of shiny UC's and ppl who paid 100s of real world dollars or more trying to get a Shiny token store pokemon will feel cheated when tons of ppl can get them so easy now, the cost now for a shiny token store pokemon would drop faster then anything we seen b4

I do realize why the economy has dropped, and there wouldn't be an incredible influx of shiny UC's. I'm not suggesting make it a 1 out of 100 shiny chance, I'm saying make it more attainable than 1/8000 if people are going to pay an extra 2 tokens for it. Also I see this argument for just about every change in game (what about the people who paid millions of in game money, or tons of real world money, it's unfair) If we didn't make any changes for this reason then no changes would ever be made. If we stuck to that logic no gains would be made at all, anywhere. And as for the cost of shiny UC's, and UC's dropping in game, that has happened to every other pokemon...I believe it would be worth doing for a better system, besides that I did suggest the token cost of pokemon be reduced anyway. So it would balance itself.

 

[psychosamm]

I personally like this idea, right now getting a shiny UC is nearly impossible. The only people who have them are either staff or people who have been around long enough that they were able to simply buy S UC pokes from the token store long ago. There may be one or two that have gotten shinies from the current token store, but i've never heard of them. From what i'm understanding from the rest of you is that you don't like the idea of people with a bunch of money getting a S UC... Which makes absolutely no sense to me. Right now that's basically the ONLY way you COULD get a S UC from the token store, if you spent an insane amount of money because of the ridiculous chances. The only reason you guys don't bother yourselves with this is because either no one bothers with it because its virtually impossible, or you never see a new S UC even when people DO try. Why should S UC only be owned by the vets or staff? That doesn't really seem fair to me. The SC is pretty much impossible, so much so that having it as an option is really just a way for PWO to get more donations, because actually getting one would probably never happen, unless you spent a LOT of money.

I don't see a problem here, you cry "But the economy!" So what? The staff have said they don't care about the economy in the past, and if you take the economy out of the equation then making the token store SC much better would only be a beneficial update. Anyone should be able to get a S UC if they really want to try for one, it's not like you could get one any other way than to pay for tokens. What people do with their money is their business, not yours, so why complain about it? I think you guys think of rare shinies as a status symbol, and that people who haven't been here as long as you shouldn't have one, and that's wrong.

 

[Saric]

I don't really agree on making S UCs anything more than the standard shiny chance. It's not just the economy that should be worried about. The already terrible battle system would just be even more crippled with popular S UCs out there in battles. Once those get out to the masses, PWO basically becomes a pay-to-win situation in the battle aspect. There's just simply some pokes on the token store that should not be possible to get a shiny of. Also it's already been noted by lee that the shiny chance on the token store is going to be looked at and tweaked on the new playerdex.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

I don't really agree on making S UCs anything more than the standard shiny chance. It's not just the economy that should be worried about. The already terrible battle system would just be even more crippled with popular S UCs out there in battles. Once those get out to the masses, PWO basically becomes a pay-to-win situation in the battle aspect. There's just simply some pokes on the token store that should not be possible to get a shiny of. Also it's already been noted by lee that the shiny chance on the token store is going to be looked at and tweaked on the new playerdex.

First of all, thanks for your reply! And yes, I've noted the eventual higher shiny chance for people with MS. The only option you are really commenting on is only one of the two I proposed. If you're not in favor of a naturally higher shiny chance for UC's even if you pay more for it, how do you feel about a natural normal 1/8000 chance of shiny without the additional tokens necessary for the chance? It would still be EXTREMELY rare, enough to the point where you'd still almost never see it in battle.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

I don't really agree on making S UCs anything more than the standard shiny chance. It's not just the economy that should be worried about. The already terrible battle system would just be even more crippled with popular S UCs out there in battles. Once those get out to the masses, PWO basically becomes a pay-to-win situation in the battle aspect. There's just simply some pokes on the token store that should not be possible to get a shiny of. Also it's already been noted by lee that the shiny chance on the token store is going to be looked at and tweaked on the new playerdex.

First of all, thanks for your reply! And yes, I've noted the eventual higher shiny chance for people with MS. The only option you are really commenting on is only one of the two I proposed. If you're not in favor of a naturally higher shiny chance for UC's even if you pay more for it, how do you feel about a natural normal 1/8000 chance of shiny without the additional tokens necessary for the chance? It would still be EXTREMELY rare, enough to the point where you'd still almost never see it in battle.

 

[Saric]

I don't really agree on making S UCs anything more than the standard shiny chance. It's not just the economy that should be worried about. The already terrible battle system would just be even more crippled with popular S UCs out there in battles. Once those get out to the masses, PWO basically becomes a pay-to-win situation in the battle aspect. There's just simply some pokes on the token store that should not be possible to get a shiny of. Also it's already been noted by lee that the shiny chance on the token store is going to be looked at and tweaked on the new playerdex.

First of all, thanks for your reply! And yes, I've noted the eventual higher shiny chance for people with MS. The only option you are really commenting on is only one of the two I proposed. If you're not in favor of a naturally higher shiny chance for UC's even if you pay more for it, how do you feel about a natural normal 1/8000 chance of shiny without the additional tokens necessary for the chance? It would still be EXTREMELY rare, enough to the point where you'd still almost never see it in battle.

I've no opinion on that. Don't really care about it too much either way.

 

[HitmonFonty]

I don't see a problem with how it is now personally. The chance of a shiny UC should be very low, and an extra two tokens for the chance doesn't seem too high to me.

 

[matileo19]

I don't see a problem with how it is now personally. The chance of a shiny UC should be very low, and an extra two tokens for the chance doesn't seem too high to me.

They want everything to be easier, as they don't want to see Espeon fixed (for example) this is another thing that should be easy for them. Is more than obvious, nothing more should be explained here... more S Chance --> Unbalance and economy broken. Another point: They don't care if you payed $1000 without luck, its a donation.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

"HitmonFonty"]I don't see a problem with how it is now personally. The chance of a shiny UC should be very low, and an extra two tokens for the chance doesn't seem too high to me.

Well 15 tokens to me is a bit high already. But that's personal opinion. And i agree that a shiny uc should be extremely rare, but what's wrong with allowing the usual shiny chance without charging? if non members had no chance to find shinies ingame would that be good? Is the same basic principle, pay for a shiny chance. It would benefit players and pwo, as more people would try to get one, and more donations would be made. All without the ridiculously low chance for an extra 2 tokens. But i guesses it is subjective, thanks for your contribution.

 

[psychosamm]

I don't see a problem with how it is now personally. The chance of a shiny UC should be very low, and an extra two tokens for the chance doesn't seem too high to me.

They want everything to be easier, as they don't want to see Espeon fixed (for example) this is another thing that should be easy for them. Is more than obvious, nothing more should be explained here... more S Chance --> Unbalance and economy broken. Another point: They don't care if you payed $1000 without luck, its a donation.

Can you ever debate without trying to be insulting to the other side? Yes it should be easier, but no one is suggesting it be easy. Imagine how many encounters you go through without MS in order to find a shiny, and how quickly those encounters happen, that would be a unrealistic amount of money if someone wanted to try for a shiny from the token store. What is so wrong about S UC being made more realistic to have to regular players? No one is suggesting to make it super easy like 1/100 chance, if that were the case then yes the economy would be ruined. But if it were 1/1000, or 1/1500 then it could be a possibility but rare enough to where S UC still wouldn't be a common sight or anything. Therefore the economy would notbe ruined. And let's be honest if people actually got a S UC you think they would sell them? It would be like they never existed. I'm not agreeing with this because i want to spend a bunch of money, i hardly ever buy from the token store. I'm agreeing because i believe those who want to attain their dream pokemon should be able to reach it.

I also believe many of the token store pokemon are over-priced, like Bagon for example is HR, he's 15 tokens. I don't know what Blue has changed so far with the new playerdex and token store, but that is one pokemon that should certainly not be 15 tokens. Not only that but overall most costs aren't worth, like eco said, what you could sell the tokens for. Yes it's a gamble but the prices of the token store are still what they were long ago with a better economy and much has changed, so things like the token store should change as well. Not dramatically, but altered slightly. And since the new Dex is coming out this is the perfect opportunity to change such things.