PWO Community.

[Tecknician]

For some time now I have noticed that the community is not where I think it should be. I have heard great things about how awesome this community use to be, however I find it a little shallow as far as what is present. I think right now the forums are not as active as many would hope, and most of the community aspect is in sub-guild communities like xat and own personal forums.

However I would like to change this, I think there needs to be more emphasis on trying to raise a more centralized community feel. I have already began the process of trying to achieve this several different ways. Some have achieve more success than others, and some only time will tell. However It's to the point I want to disclose the information presented in this topic and have the main element be apart of this process: You.

Most of this stems from personal experience observation combined with back story and opinions from current and former staff as well as players.

When I first joined the staff I was only a player for a short time, but already noticed there was a lack of enthusiasm presented among players about the progress of the game. As a result I wanted to immediately provide the players with something that would rejuvenate them and give them something to enjoy, this is how the updated move set to gen 5 was ultimately brought on. I noticed former admins working on this and simply knew that the process could be easily done using some scripting and with the help of a few other staff members it was completed almost overnight.

I then turned my attention to the forums, I immediately saw a pattern of a lack of activity in one of the forums that I think would be essential to having a strong centralized community: General PWO Talk. Upon looking further I noticed there was a lack of a lot of in depth discussions due to various reasons. I blame a large part of the issue on staff members including myself: providing responses that either didn't allow for discussion to continue, or made it pointless to continue. For example in a suggestion topic a staff member posting "No this won't happen". When it comes to topics like that, even if the suggestion itself won't happen, sometimes it triggers ideas that could actually happen, or make a bad idea good through continuous input. I felt the action of the staff created an atmosphere that discouraged these types of topics and discussion to take place.

One of the more aggressive ways I tried to change this was trying to get a CG in place that primary role was to make topics that did just that: Trigger more in depth discussions. Creobis was chosen for this role and given the title as community guide even though his role is very different than any previous community guides that came before him. Since then several topics has been made by him and a few by others that have triggered the type of topics I would like to see more of, so I feel this has been a very good start.

After this I decided to re-address more issues with the battle system trying to allow more players to find a place in the PVP verse that they can enjoy. This meant providing upgrades and fixes that made the battle system different, more dynamic, and more like it should be. Somethings I failed to achieve, other things turned out differently than I thought they would, such as Stat Changing moves. However now that TM's are coming out I think it's getting to the place where I can feel some satisfaction. I feel providing a stronger PVP verse will strengthen the community by providing more competition without alienating people.

This leads me to where I am today. I have two things I am currently focusing on. The first is providing more content to non PVP players aka PVE. I want this game to continually feel like it's growing and providing more content to everyone, not just one demographic. As this is a topic about the community I want to now focus on the other thing: bringing players together interaction wise. After talks with some players, and now former GM Dovee, I have decided to support a fan only xat chat: Xat.com/pwo_social. After hearing how players liked the old official chat which use to be on xat, and me personally wanting more interactions between guilds, I think this is a very positive step forward. I do not intend, nor will it ever be an official chat because it doesn't have the tools in place to be an official chat, however it is a perfect place I feel for more light spirited discussions, regarding various things both pwo and non pwo related. I hope to get it to the point where players are welcome there at all times and they feel free to talk about anything.

Now to the main point of this post, and why it's in the discussion section and not in my blog which you can find in the literature section. I am seeking ideas and feedback from players as to what they think will make the community better. For now I present you with two ideas I would like your feedback on:

1) New forum called "Strategies" where you can share strategies about anything pwo related, but most likely about battling. As more TM's come out and more updates are added to the battle system I expect there to be different strategies. For now though you can post things like what TM's would have the most impact? What stat is the most important for which pokemon? What pokemon do you start with the most. Ect.

2) Suggestion forums: Pretty much self explanatory, a forum for suggestion and discussions about suggestions with restricted staff input except for when asked for feedback directly by a player.

 

[Saric]

Having gone through your post I do agree on many of these points. From the restricted suggestions, and the commuunity..going to the dumps.
As for your suggestions:
1). This could either turn out really well or it could turn out to be a bust. It all depends on how the community reacts to it. It's a good idea but I'm not sure if it'll be utilized.
2). I wholeheartedly agree with a suggestions section. There used to be one some time ago from when we had IPBoards software, but once we switched it was never brought back to favor the suggestion box on playerdex which is both rather restricted and not really user-friendly.

 

[Guest]

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[Merse]

It's Miss (or should I say Mistress? ) staff in Teck's case
I was watching what you were doing and I really like what you have done so far. You and Creobis really filled the hole of staff-player interaction which was one of the big issues of the community.
I think you also identified the main issue of PWO today: Lack of new content. A game, even if it is an MMO becomes boring when you reach the endgame stage. When you're already there for some time, you'll try to entertain yourself, in our case with insanely hard hunting, PVP, guilds, trading. But even those become boring after a while. That's why MMOs introduce new contents time to time - to keep players entertained. Unfortunately, due the limitations of time and the client, updates are coming very slowly in PWO. It doesn't help either that, because the game is successful for so many years, the community is irreversibly divided among several groups of players. Veterans, token sellers, scammers/botters, total beginners and the group of those who don't fit to any other category. New contents help to ease the tension among these groups and to reduce the difference between the groups. Like when a new Pokemon becomes catchable, even a beginner has the chance to find the first shiny. Or if we really would start from scratch in Hoenn with a new starter... I think I went a bit off the track
My point is that the game itself must be a living, always changing and expanding entity because that's the only way it could remain entertaining. And an entertaining game always has an active community. Stimulating the community outside of the game could work for a while, but it never will be as effective as expanding the game. That's why I'm waiting so eagerly the new client, because it would make game updates much easier and faster.

This is not a post against the staff, I really appreciate their work and I doubt anyone could work any harder on this project than they do. I'm just marking an important point.

 

[psychosamm]

I think the new forums sections are a great idea, maybe add a "Bug report" section too, we are testers after all. However i don't really think adding 2 sections in the forums are going to suddenly spark a sense of community and togetherness. The best way to do that is to hold small events that bring everyone together, the Skarmory event was an excellent example of that. It doesn't have to be elaborate, any kind of event to hunt something or earn something would do wonders to bring people together. I also think that when these small events happen people will be more willing to talk on fourms and suggest ideas, because they are seeing first hand that this game has potential to become even greater.

Just my 5 cents

 

[Gobfather]

Hmmm all this sounds very interesting and I cannot wait to see the turn out. I would love to have events, I always here about them in the past and it's been so sad to always hear there won't be any happening soon. Just throwing it out there that if weavile is released in december(favorite pokemon, birthday month xD) PLEASE make an epic sneasel event so I can get a shiny

Also thinking of this santa hat from parkway raceway? I think it'd be really cool to have a 24/7 game spot that awards with points alowing you to 'purchase' new things, say really good TM's, new outfits/accesories allowing for custimaztion that everyone can see(vs. changing just your sprite only you can see), maybe evelution items that are only obtainable from TS or from trading like soothe. I think having little things like that could give us all something else to work at and new ways to socialize.

Also I think with new things implemented like in creobis topic for guilds would push more to join in on guilds, as mine has always died off Dx When I first started playing I thought it was an ok game to pass time, but when I joined r3vo and met all the people the game became SO much more fun and I began to get to know realy cool people(no longer playing though T_T) in xat and their website, if it weren't for them I would've left months ago, but now I don't think I can xD. I think with more focus on guild perks ingame like ideas in there about team hideouts and such would push more to join not just the main guilds but those 'outcast' guilds, or even push players to rush into making their own for them and their friends, increasing the 'active and staying' population of the community with more involvement as I see many players never even chat or anything D:

Am not clear if you are asking TM reccomendation here but I would like to share my thoughts I am an avid Pokemon Showdown player as I LOVE pokemon battling, sadly not so much here :/ I also think if in the future we could have a 'Save replay' feature for battles that take place, and maybe a small section in forums where you can share your battles with others and discuss about the strategies, pointers, or just to praise xD I have THOUSANDS of TM's that I love using but I guess because of where the game is at NOW I will only recomend a few:

Earthquake, Stone edge, Focus Blast, Thunderbolt/electric moves, Surf/Scald(with burn chance)/Hydro Pump, Dark Pulse/Psychic, Flamethrowe/Fire moves, Gyro Ball(with low speed increase), Low kick(with wieght increase for pokemon like tyranitar) Toxic/Will-o-wisp, Move like Calm mind fully working, Brave Bird/Hurricane, Tail glow/Nasty Plot/Quiver Dance(venomoth )/Swords Dance/Rock polish/Bulk up/etc (possibly along with baton pass?), Drain Punch/Giga Drain(working)?, more elemental punches/fangs, prority moves would be a huge step as well such as sucker punch for a seting up kazam or an ice shard for an already setup drago, Spikes/toxic spikes/stealth rock included with rapid spin to clear them, Substitute(working), Working Whirlwind/roar/dragon tail for pokemon that are seting up, Working U-Turn/Volt switch, Would like to see protect as well, AND I'll just cut myself short there before I can't stop xD

Yea sorry went a little crazy with TM's part :/

 

[CheckeredZebra]

It always made me sad when players were told to stop having good suggestion discussions on the forums and to move them to a place that was dead in terms of interaction. (From forums to playerdex), so I would quite like for that to be brought back. The only annoyance would be with people who don't read, meaning people would be suggesting the few benign things all the time (EG: Fix mapz!!11).

That is but a small price to pay in comparison, however. I'd like to partake in those sorts of discussions.

 

[LanceDM]

Teck, thanks for providing this topic to us, I wanted to say what I'm going to say but I couldn't till now:

First off, I want you to know (staff and players), I'm not a trol machine, I have my own way of seeing things, you can agree or not, but It doesn't mean that I'm trolling or wrong , or being irrespectfull or always starting fights against staff/players, what you should see is that I'm honest... and I don't mind if I have to express myself about stuff and this shouldn't be a bad thing, its the opposite, as if you have a group of players telling you that everything is OK when its not, then where's the good thing about it ? I hope you understand.

Now... I've seen staff members with no more than a tag to show others its superiority (referring to the time when I was Mod and later a Gm, but I want you to read this anyway). I remember having 5/6 mods, x amount of Gms, x amount of mappers, etc... but only 2 / 3 of each group were the ones working as THEY SHOULD*. If you are a part of the staff, you AGREED to be there, you joined knowing the consequences, you can't come all the time with an excuse to justify your lack of care such as ''I have exams /real life problems/ I'm a volunteer/ etc'' if you don't have time, just leave your place to someone else, someone with more time and effort than you. This is mainly directed to Cgs/GEs/GMs. Don't take this as an attack, take time to think about this, its for yourselves and I'm not expecting an answer from you as its obvious that some of you are working and some are not working as they should, I understand it and most of the community aswell.

About your answers when a player has an Idea/question/suggestion:
One of the problems besides the lack of reasons on some of your answers is that some* of you (the staff) are accustomed to always(sometimes) answer in the same way, the same thing, without thinking what the guy is suggesting / asking, sometimes you act like'' Bots'' ... Example:

Player: Hi Cg I have a question! I have a red screen what should I do ?
CGmatileo: Relog.
Player: But its red, not black... should I relog ?
CGmatileo: Make a topic and report it on ''Player Support''

Idk if you understand what I mean, no ofence to our CGs or any other rank ! Im using you as example but this doesnt mean that Im mainly talking about you.
_________________

Another thing that I hate every time it happens:
You SHOULD accept the fact that we (players and staff) have brothers, sisters, Cyber cafes, etc , etc. Anything can happen guys, you can't crucify someone, try being mindful about what you're doing and what is happening, think about it and leave the case on hold before answering... then you can dictate the sentence with full security and serenity, without being offensive, this is not a real life case on which the player commithed a crime lol, this is just a GAME called Pwo and you should know that some players are no more than childrens, some of these childrens have no friends in real life (its true, accept it), their life are the games so, this kind of situations may stress them and affect them in many ways. You should give us an example of the word ''respect'', even if the player in troubles deserves something worse.


A xat may help with the interaction btween new players/veterans and staff, this may be good.

_______________________

Now about the points 1 and 2:

1- This is a good idea! I know that we won't use its max power right now, because we can't make many strategies due to obvious reasons (by now), but this is good and will keep being good while pwo advances !
2- I like this! We used to have one, its good to see it back!

 

[Naero]

With how staff members have been channeling discussions, from what I've observed (I've been lounging around the forums mostly, from time-to-time), it really has enlivened the forums partially -- particularly this forums section, whereat many of these discussions thrive the most. In big part, I ascribe it due to how you, among a few other staff members, have held discussions; when the staff prefaces them with an impression of open-minded consideration, and forthcalls well-thought out responses, it helps to convince the player that their suggestions can make a difference if enough thought is put into them.

In the past, I've even observed how staff members would "shut down" discussions, as you've mentioned, due to preconceived opinions on the implausibility of the suggestion; some even threatening to lock topics, or actually doing so. Staff members who are not even in an executive position to commission these ideas, regardless of dissenting opinions on the viability/inviability of the update, seemed to have jumped the gun, and would have promoted a better atmospheric environment on the forums if they sat down and listened to the player's suggestions.

Your suggestions: While they may divert away discussional vitality from this forums section, as this has been considered the go-to section for them, I believe it'll promote these discussions more positively overall; if players notice that there are sections used specifically to channel this, I believe it can only encourage more of these discussions, more than anything.

If suggestion 2 is meant to replace the playerdex's suggestion box, I believe it would be a more optimal medium for suggestions, impermanently. I have no doubt that it would have more magnetism than playerdex's suggestion box, and better breeding grounds for discussions; I just believe the playerdex's suggestion box may be more well-suited for it in the long run, when polished and developed further -- this is not the case at this time, however, so a forums section could be reused for it until there is more sound readiness for the suggestion box on playerdex to take over.

Regarding the community, it has devitalized over time indeed, often due to a drought of updates (some development on key components has been incapacitated due to the current-client development being at a standstill), as well as other Pokemon MMOs on the rise. I would agree that events would be one way to resurge existing players, and to maintain a more fresh relish for the game before the just-completed players (those who completed all quests) leave if free-roam gameplay alone can't captivate them before new content is added.

There is, of course, a juggle-up between adding more permanent content, and hosting temporary events. However, for events that would operate on a more intangible system (such as tournaments, which rely on off-system organization), I believe this could be done separately from real game-content additions. For those that do not require any game-content changes, I believe the CGs would be the most well-fit for it, as they're on the front-line of community interactions, and are meant to focus on what they can to benefit the community in an interactional way. HIde and Seek was a good example of one of these competition-oriented events, though I'm unsure if it'd ever reprise itself.

Just my 2 cents~

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

I would like to highlight one particular part of Teck's post promoting the new unofficial PWO chat http://xat.com/pwo_social , especially for any of you who participate in group discussions regarding PWO's progress. We'd love to be able to talk in real time with you regarding issues, or just have friendly conversations with you about random things. Don't feel discouraged if you go there at a time when no one is active, and try coming back another time.

 

[CheckeredZebra]

Mmm I wonder about the IRC vs. Xat, though.

While they may divert away discussional vitality from this forums section

Why wouldn't they just make suggestions a subforum of General PWO talk? :V

 

[Stank]

OK don't take this the wrong way or anything, but I completely agree, this community sucks....It's nothing but a shell of its former self. Back in the day when i first started, there were forum topics posted (in like EVERY section) every 5 minutes. We also had that nifty thing on the forum home page that had links to the 5 or so most recent forum topics which was awesome because there are tons of topics that get ignored or passed over simply because no one may have seen it. I know on the one theme we have the same thing here but last i checked that theme wasn't done and kinda sucks because not everything works.

Another thing these forums are missing that we used to all have fun with were the stats updates, just that little bar on the right hand of the screen that allowed us to post small little blurbs of whatever was on our mind, or comment on others posts. I know this isn't a social networking site like Facebook, but what ever it had is all talking and communicating.... I mean seriously, look at the online list right now.

THERE ARE ONLY 7 REGISTERED USERS ONLINE, and 2 of those are freaking bots... The record for most users on at once was almost 2 years ago, and that was only 457 users. Back in the days of the old IPBoard forums we used to have numbers like that online like every day.

As far as sparking debates, one thing I always liked was forum rep, I know it can be abused, and i understand why it was removed, BUT I also think it did serve a valuable purpose. A lot of times there are threads that users read and like but don't comment on because they have nothing really to add but its kind of nice to be able to say either I agree/disagree with this post. I don't care what anyone says I thought it was useful.

Personally i feel like a Large portion of why the community sucks as much as it does, is because the guild scene is PWO is grade A horse crap. No offence but 99% of the guilds in PWO are a freaking joke any more, there are only like 4 or 5 major guilds, and out of those 4-5 there are only 2 or so that are big in to the battle scene. There needs to be something, and I don't know what exactly, but something to make being in a guild mean something. After the whole Zidonuke incident there were only 1-2 guilds who survived and came back once the game was revived. I remember back when guilds used to be at each others throats every day, there used to be so many heated rivalries, and if you had an issue with someone or another guild, you settled it by having a battle not crying to staff because you claim someone "rigged" a tourney and beat you instead of just realizing that you just suck and lost (not pointing fingers or anything). Now the way it sits, you play for a while, make some friends, join a guild and get a nifty guild tag, and that's it. You don't make new friends, you don't talk to other guilds/players, battling has no purpose other than to just increase your win count. There is absolutely no sense of competition any more. I know there is also a topic by Creobis about suggestions for guild features and such, but that conversation has pretty much already died.

I know your post was about getting more discussions going and what not but I feel like this was a good place for my mini rant about guilds as well lol.

Now on to your points at the bottom of your post

1.If done, and used PROPERLY this type of forum could be awesome, and if there were enough topics it could be an easy way for a player who may not have had much experience in the battle scene, to learn how PWOs systems work and actually have a decent chance to learn.

2. I completely agree about having a "Suggestions Forum" mainly because I HATE the fact that it seems like everything is moving to the new Playerdex (If it ever gets here), and it almost seems like there will be no need to even go to the forums any more.

I'd also like to suggest bring bug reports back to the forum instead of playerdex.

 

[nemo55]

Wow everyone writing essays, haha I wish i can read it all but after reading Teks essay i was overwhelmed.

So I will keep it short.

I really like the strategies area, and suggestions, it ads more depth which is always good. As for people to be more interactive in forums i think they need to be advertised a little better, as a beginner i remember not being too fond of forums, wasn't sure how things worked and what to do...but i don't know a solution for that...other then an advertisement for this game would be a great way to start with and allow people to know of PWO and its capabilities...

More events is always good

But i know there are other little things that dont deserve recognition, but need work on...so work away we love to see you do your THANG!

Regards,
nemo55 AKA Captain_Nemo

 

[Orean]

Only posting for now in response to those who have suggested that a bug-reporting section should be reimplemented hereat the forums: just asking, for the purpose of arguendo, why some believe the forums are a better medium for filing bug reports.

I understand that some have cited that they would prefer to reorient some forums-operable activity from playerdex back to the forums (which is understandable, for more discussion-promotional activities such as suggestions)—I'm just mainly concerned on the limitations of the forums software used, compared to the finest-controlled development over the suggestion's box functionality (once Lee has more time to develop it).

The more high-confidential bugs, for example, should be reported anonymously; it's not possible to have a more private section, which would only be viewable by the OP and a designated staff group, on phpBB. Albeit, I do know that forum PMs could suffice for some cases as well.

 

[Merse]

I don't think a bug report forum is required. The staff already gets more then enough reports as it is now in the form of reports via Playerdex and via the player reviews of the contents.
if there would be a forum thread for bug report, it would be full of stucks, black screens, "no Hoenn"s, reports about broken moves which we already know of etc. And about one of every 50 report would be something really useful. I don't think we need that.

 

[Saric]

Only posting for now in response to those who have suggested that a bug-reporting section should be reimplemented hereat the forums: just asking, for the purpose of arguendo, why some believe the forums are a better medium for filing bug reports.

I understand that some have cited that they would prefer to reorient some forums-operable activity from playerdex back to the forums (which is understandable, for more discussion-promotional activities such as suggestions)—I'm just mainly concerned on the limitations of the forums software used, compared to the finest-controlled development over the suggestion's box functionality (once Lee has more time to develop it).

The more high-confidential bugs, for example, should be reported anonymously; it's not possible to have a more private section, which would only be viewable by the OP and a designated staff group, on phpBB. Albeit, I do know that forum PMs could suffice for some cases as well.

The playerdex is just a giant hassle with that sort of thing. The forums are easier and quicker (in my opinion). Plus, with bug reports on forums, it's more easily noticed by other players and they can also share their experience with the bug instead of having one singular person. The forum would be better for both players and staff as it gives easy communication between the two (or more) parties.

I don't think a bug report forum is required. The staff already gets more then enough reports as it is now in the form of reports via Playerdex and via the player reviews of the contents.
if there would be a forum thread for bug report, it would be full of stucks, black screens, "no Hoenn"s, reports about broken moves which we already know of etc. And about one of every 50 report would be something really useful. I don't think we need that.

What's to stop this being on the playerdex bug report? It's going to happen regardless. It would be dealt with the same case that it's dealt with on the other sections.

 

[Merse]

That's exactly why. We have a section on Playerdex for this. It already works on every low efficiency. We don't need to duplicate it. We don't need another "trash bin" with only a few valuable things in it...

 

[Saric]

That's exactly why. We have a section on Playerdex for this. It already works on every low efficiency. We don't need to duplicate it. We don't need another "trash bin" with only a few valuable things in it...

I very highly doubt that it's used that much nor do I think that staff frequently look at it.
I see more bugs solved and reported on forums than I do anywhere else.

 

[Bluerise]

The playerdex is just a giant hassle with that sort of thing. The forums are easier and quicker (in my opinion).

Please could you expand on the following in PM, thank you.

 

[Dragon16]

The release of the new playerdex has been set back alot, since the release date initially given.