[glow=darkred]Thats not ture Zooks. There is alot of people who care about IV's and EV's from the start of the game not just at the end. And no its not infinitely more difficult to get viable pokes of value/battle capability than any other game. If anything its much easier. All you have to do is 3 badges from johto, donate money and you can buy some amazing pokes on market in a snap of your fingers ~snaps fingers~ just like that. Or if your really good at marketing you dont even need to donate money. Anyways my point is, is that alot of new players do care about IV/EV's from the start and its easy to get good pokes from the start as well. As for the natures i think PWO has a plain for it and it will all work out just fine. ^-^[/glow]
Pokemon Natures
- Thread starter fableboy
- Start date
the thing u dont understand about pwo is,this is not like other games,its pokemon yes,but its unique that makes me feel like playing it morethen other games,which are all the same exept some graphics,the problem is about the old players,not the new players,new players have to either make profits in trade,hunt for epic pokes and donate tokens,these 3 ways to get their game going,whereas as an old player like myself with 1700+ hours ingame,he doesnt want to play a game where hes pokes he spend millions for are useless,jsut assume i paid 130m for a shiny arcanine max speed old ivs,and it gets a nature of higher spatck and lower speed,its a waste of 130m,now im comming to the real point what ive failed to explain till now,if that poke had a low speed nature before,i would have NEVER EVER bought it in the first place,that too for a 130m T_T,the thing is game is not dominated by new players,it just cannot progress without old palyers,what do u want,all old players leaving pwo?(i dont want that including myself) i want to play more,a new player would make its way somehow but a old player who has spent years playing 10 hours a day(my example) would NEVER play another 1700 hours to get where i am right now,(why are old palyers given a bad name for stocking pokes? they didnt steal or anything illeagle to get them,u cant expect a newbie and a player with years of game be the same now can u,answer me this)they have every right to keep their pokes the way they want,they paid for it,so either keep pwo natureless as the way it is or add option of changing nature,to save our pokes and old players,or perhaps pwo itself,,,
Zooks
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2011
- Messages
- 72
- Points
- 8
Poisonivy said:
First of all, it is 100% true that this is by far the hardest game to obtain the best pokemon. The rates of common to (horribly rare) which don't even exist in the handhelds, are astronomical in comparison to the rates in the official games. Simply take the averages of dratini fished up in PWO compared to x/y , not to mention the possibility to breed thousands of dratinis after, making it very easy to get what you want, when you want it. People will spend weeks trying to get a horribly rare poke on PWO, and then it can turn out to have terrible stats, making it not an end game pokemon whatsoever. With the added randomness of natures/abilities, it would be way harder for a new player to get something viable. It's not easy to get pokemon here, and if that's what you think... you are mistaken, just ask any staff member the rates here compared to anywhere else. Donating money doesn't ensure you good pokes, it's extremely luck based and it's better off donating for the reason of simply helping the server keep running. You can easily complete all the gyms without the need to train your EVs specifically, and on that note, abilities/natures don't mean squat. I'm not trying to say newer, or any player for that matter shouldn't care about ivs/evs/natures/abilities.. only that it simply does not matter to complete the game.
Tendou
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2012
- Messages
- 304
- Points
- 18
All I can say is I congratulate Electro for explaining things like why Nature is needed, but requesting it without knowing how it will affect the whole mechanic is useless and a bit dumb. I also have a feeling people that are only focusing to get their favorites boosted arent even reading Electro's post properly due not understanding how this will affect the battles as a whole, which is not bad but you will only learn if you step ahead and learn the hows, whys and whats because once the staff applies this in future your comment will be likely invalid if you dont even understand the mechanics.
Natures are important in pokemon battles BUT that doesnt mean new players won't need it at the start of the game, sule. As far I can see, Pwo is beng a bit bored because people don't like to buy things cause they are only focusing on IVs and shiny old, they are using these as base to determinate if a pokemon is good or not and once they are beaten in a battle by an "impossible pokemon not able to defeat your super awesome IVs one" they sudden rise its price and now that pokemon is good in the point of view of them (just to note, that pokemon WAS ALWAYS able to beat overused ones, it just needed some updates to work properly AND YOU to explore how the updates affected the pokemons). So what this is related with nature? Thats easy to answer, we heavily requested from staff to get updates to get a working game and still I can see some that complains about how the current game is right now. One example is switching battles, Donar did good balancing all moves needed to do a proper and balanced battles but YOU, yes YOU, is the one that needs to update yourself and get rid of the crappy way the old pwo was because it was BROKEN, even if it is still not perfect it is better than before and no one is willing to dig deeper and only discovers when the mentioned method of "getting pwned by a pokemon that was impossible to beat you" are applied to them. So, to slowly get rid of the old way players are still bond with this crappy way, Natures would be awesome if it is set as NEUTRAL for old pokemons (old pokemons in general, dont focus on this shiny old thing only) once the staff is done with this and let the new pokemons to have a random nature like the mechanic works. If you are complaining right now, stop reading this because you clearly do not know a way to get this done in a benefical way and instead, wants your favorite, shiny old to be more powerful as they already are ( you need to notice we dont even have the iv 0 and shiny olds are the main villain in why we cant even have a proper breeding, staff may likely be forced to create its own breeding system cause shinies for this game arent 0-31). OK back to the topic, by setting a neutral nature for old pokemons in which 80% of them have wrong abilities already means you will complain at the first instance, yes, however that means new players will be able to interact with us and with themselves about selling pokemons because the majority of the community only cares to buy old iv pokemons or 27+ R and up, the surfboard's price over the years is a proof of this. Balancing is not to apply things for yourself, nature is mostly used on PvP but also boosts your efficiency from PvEs making the game a bit easy for new players thus once they are able to trade they will get something in return for something thats good even if it has decent ivs. Meanwhile you should be thinking "so the old pokemons will have a neutral nature and thats all?" we have something called Ability Capsule and for the lord's sake I hope you (sule) know what it does because this would be the first step to update the natures AFTER when we get used in a new and correct era. Natures aren't supposed to change but since this is a 7+ year game w/o natures this IS needed, if you are lazy to farm for something that requires a bit of farming by default so the best way you can do is to buy them (which let you start buying things without using the ivs as the higher priority) because battlers are created by effort through breeding, thus farming is required and thats the spirit of a mmo, a mmo without farming is completely weird, so your point of view to get them introduced and the way you dont prefer that to requires effort is irrelevant. That doesnt mean you will spend almost a year to fix all your pokemons hence the word balancing wil lbe there to balance things in a way players will go forward and learn new things. Ok, back with the Ability Capsule explanation, if thats related with abilities why in the name of Man Bear Pig im mentioning that on a Nature's topic? Thats simple, YOUR pokemons already have the potential to update themselves. It is like having a Hidden Power Fire Magneton: You dont have the TM BUT that wont change the fate thats magnetion IS a HP Fire one, you just need the right conditions and a bit of patience to have the TM with you and magic, you have a magnet pull magneton with HP fire ready for use. This example means they are ready set or subject to be changed by something but you need to notice this and have enough patience to wait things to be done because its fate was already set to role in a thing. So again, what this have in common with Ability Capsule and Natures? Thats simple, staff can use a similar way the Ability Capsule's function affects your pokemon and creates a PWO item only to do the same for nature in future AFTER the introduction of the mechanics and the fix of themselves, the whole community will enjoy the new era of PWO by updating themselves (and will complain as usual, dont feel special for complaining) then there wil lbe a way where, we, old players would be able to update the failure pokemons old staff let them to remain for almost 6 years. In the end, everyone wins, patience is a virtue always, dont treat a game or a fan made game like if thats uneeded.
Im an old player, my pokemons will be affected by my self suggestion but they wont be affected in a perma way, they will be affected so the game can evolve and THEN they will be able to evolve later on because they cannot be excluded of this and Im well aware this would happen someday because ive been like 10 years playing nintendo games. There are LOTS of ways to do this and Pay to Win is NOT the way to do this (your suggestion with TS thing able to change natures)
Natures are important in pokemon battles BUT that doesnt mean new players won't need it at the start of the game, sule. As far I can see, Pwo is beng a bit bored because people don't like to buy things cause they are only focusing on IVs and shiny old, they are using these as base to determinate if a pokemon is good or not and once they are beaten in a battle by an "impossible pokemon not able to defeat your super awesome IVs one" they sudden rise its price and now that pokemon is good in the point of view of them (just to note, that pokemon WAS ALWAYS able to beat overused ones, it just needed some updates to work properly AND YOU to explore how the updates affected the pokemons). So what this is related with nature? Thats easy to answer, we heavily requested from staff to get updates to get a working game and still I can see some that complains about how the current game is right now. One example is switching battles, Donar did good balancing all moves needed to do a proper and balanced battles but YOU, yes YOU, is the one that needs to update yourself and get rid of the crappy way the old pwo was because it was BROKEN, even if it is still not perfect it is better than before and no one is willing to dig deeper and only discovers when the mentioned method of "getting pwned by a pokemon that was impossible to beat you" are applied to them. So, to slowly get rid of the old way players are still bond with this crappy way, Natures would be awesome if it is set as NEUTRAL for old pokemons (old pokemons in general, dont focus on this shiny old thing only) once the staff is done with this and let the new pokemons to have a random nature like the mechanic works. If you are complaining right now, stop reading this because you clearly do not know a way to get this done in a benefical way and instead, wants your favorite, shiny old to be more powerful as they already are ( you need to notice we dont even have the iv 0 and shiny olds are the main villain in why we cant even have a proper breeding, staff may likely be forced to create its own breeding system cause shinies for this game arent 0-31). OK back to the topic, by setting a neutral nature for old pokemons in which 80% of them have wrong abilities already means you will complain at the first instance, yes, however that means new players will be able to interact with us and with themselves about selling pokemons because the majority of the community only cares to buy old iv pokemons or 27+ R and up, the surfboard's price over the years is a proof of this. Balancing is not to apply things for yourself, nature is mostly used on PvP but also boosts your efficiency from PvEs making the game a bit easy for new players thus once they are able to trade they will get something in return for something thats good even if it has decent ivs. Meanwhile you should be thinking "so the old pokemons will have a neutral nature and thats all?" we have something called Ability Capsule and for the lord's sake I hope you (sule) know what it does because this would be the first step to update the natures AFTER when we get used in a new and correct era. Natures aren't supposed to change but since this is a 7+ year game w/o natures this IS needed, if you are lazy to farm for something that requires a bit of farming by default so the best way you can do is to buy them (which let you start buying things without using the ivs as the higher priority) because battlers are created by effort through breeding, thus farming is required and thats the spirit of a mmo, a mmo without farming is completely weird, so your point of view to get them introduced and the way you dont prefer that to requires effort is irrelevant. That doesnt mean you will spend almost a year to fix all your pokemons hence the word balancing wil lbe there to balance things in a way players will go forward and learn new things. Ok, back with the Ability Capsule explanation, if thats related with abilities why in the name of Man Bear Pig im mentioning that on a Nature's topic? Thats simple, YOUR pokemons already have the potential to update themselves. It is like having a Hidden Power Fire Magneton: You dont have the TM BUT that wont change the fate thats magnetion IS a HP Fire one, you just need the right conditions and a bit of patience to have the TM with you and magic, you have a magnet pull magneton with HP fire ready for use. This example means they are ready set or subject to be changed by something but you need to notice this and have enough patience to wait things to be done because its fate was already set to role in a thing. So again, what this have in common with Ability Capsule and Natures? Thats simple, staff can use a similar way the Ability Capsule's function affects your pokemon and creates a PWO item only to do the same for nature in future AFTER the introduction of the mechanics and the fix of themselves, the whole community will enjoy the new era of PWO by updating themselves (and will complain as usual, dont feel special for complaining) then there wil lbe a way where, we, old players would be able to update the failure pokemons old staff let them to remain for almost 6 years. In the end, everyone wins, patience is a virtue always, dont treat a game or a fan made game like if thats uneeded.
Im an old player, my pokemons will be affected by my self suggestion but they wont be affected in a perma way, they will be affected so the game can evolve and THEN they will be able to evolve later on because they cannot be excluded of this and Im well aware this would happen someday because ive been like 10 years playing nintendo games. There are LOTS of ways to do this and Pay to Win is NOT the way to do this (your suggestion with TS thing able to change natures)
Electrofreak
New Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 506
- Points
- 16
On a side note, I think random battles would do a lot in terms of teaching people about the value of natures. I think the biggest problem in PWO is the general ignorance of the population in regards to the actual mechanics of a fully functioning game. Random battles will teach people some basic movesets and strategies without making them have to commit to catching and training a pokemon to do so. It will teach them with relatively low amounts of effort on their part which is great honestly.
We have a lot of people who still think switching is bad, and that needs to change. We have a lot of people who think IVs mean everything only because they don't do switching battles, and that needs to change. I mean for crying out loud half of my team are TS pokes with some crucial ivs under 20 and I go on 10-15+ battle winning streaks simply because I know how the game works.
Natures are the way this stall crap will be mitigated into less of a problem, however stall tactics were always strong up until the advent of mega pokemon due to the outright advantage tanky stats have over offensive ones in terms of calculation, prediction, and counter-play options.
I would like to point out that 8 of the top 10 pokemon used during the opening of the Black and White era in April of 2011 were all tanks, or tanky in general in terms of their base stats and typing.
APR 2011 BW OU USAGE
Total Battles: 299644
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage | Percent |
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Ferrothorn | 127997 | 21.3582 |
| 2 | Tyranitar | 124735 | 20.8139 |
| 3 | Scizor | 112589 | 18.7871 |
| 4 | Garchomp | 109670 | 18.3000 |
| 5 | Gliscor | 89599 | 14.9509 |
| 6 | Latios | 78471 | 13.0940 |
| 7 | Excadrill | 78095 | 13.0313 |
| 8 | Reuniclus | 76510 | 12.7668 |
| 9 | Heatran | 72800 | 12.1477 |
| 10 | Rotom-W | 69963 | 11.6744 |
Ferrothorn - rocks setting, leecher, killer of dreams.
Tyranitar - bulky sand machine that boosts its special defense in sand.
Scizor- Only weak to fire, huge physical defense, tons of special resistances, and can potentially carry roost on some variants. This is what nightmares look like.
Garchomp - Some go with offensive spreads but generally speaking ....rough skin ability + rocky helmet. I don't even want to talk about how disgusting this is.
Gliscor - poison heal OP
Reuniclus - Magic guard + recover + calm mind. Can't even status me bro.
Heatran - Great defensive typing and stats. The weakness to ground can be dealt with by letting him float with a balloon like Winnie-the-Pooh. This guy is like the melting person from Terminator 2. He is scary, metal, wants to kill you, and is nearly impossible to kill. OH WAIT, this guy has flash fire so you can't even melt him.
Rotom-W - Volt-switch pivot with pain split and one of the best sets of defensive typing in the game. Whoever thought this pokemon was a good idea....just.....-sigh-
My name is Fluffy. LOVE MEEEE!!!!
If old pokemon (shinies and nonshinies) are kept neutral, then you will just further advance the march of the tank regime making the overall mass of pokemon in the game useless for anything other than tanking. Not to mention the concept that most of the things that fight these tanks also need speed to be relevant.
Tanks are so overpowering that megas are literally the way to handle them. If we have to go and re-catch everything, shiny or not, that means that it is just more imbalance to the game than it already has in terms of offense vs defense.
We have a lot of people who still think switching is bad, and that needs to change. We have a lot of people who think IVs mean everything only because they don't do switching battles, and that needs to change. I mean for crying out loud half of my team are TS pokes with some crucial ivs under 20 and I go on 10-15+ battle winning streaks simply because I know how the game works.
Natures are the way this stall crap will be mitigated into less of a problem, however stall tactics were always strong up until the advent of mega pokemon due to the outright advantage tanky stats have over offensive ones in terms of calculation, prediction, and counter-play options.
I would like to point out that 8 of the top 10 pokemon used during the opening of the Black and White era in April of 2011 were all tanks, or tanky in general in terms of their base stats and typing.
APR 2011 BW OU USAGE
Total Battles: 299644
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage | Percent |
+ ---- + --------------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Ferrothorn | 127997 | 21.3582 |
| 2 | Tyranitar | 124735 | 20.8139 |
| 3 | Scizor | 112589 | 18.7871 |
| 4 | Garchomp | 109670 | 18.3000 |
| 5 | Gliscor | 89599 | 14.9509 |
| 6 | Latios | 78471 | 13.0940 |
| 7 | Excadrill | 78095 | 13.0313 |
| 8 | Reuniclus | 76510 | 12.7668 |
| 9 | Heatran | 72800 | 12.1477 |
| 10 | Rotom-W | 69963 | 11.6744 |
Ferrothorn - rocks setting, leecher, killer of dreams.
Tyranitar - bulky sand machine that boosts its special defense in sand.
Scizor- Only weak to fire, huge physical defense, tons of special resistances, and can potentially carry roost on some variants. This is what nightmares look like.
Garchomp - Some go with offensive spreads but generally speaking ....rough skin ability + rocky helmet. I don't even want to talk about how disgusting this is.
Gliscor - poison heal OP
Reuniclus - Magic guard + recover + calm mind. Can't even status me bro.
Heatran - Great defensive typing and stats. The weakness to ground can be dealt with by letting him float with a balloon like Winnie-the-Pooh. This guy is like the melting person from Terminator 2. He is scary, metal, wants to kill you, and is nearly impossible to kill. OH WAIT, this guy has flash fire so you can't even melt him.
Rotom-W - Volt-switch pivot with pain split and one of the best sets of defensive typing in the game. Whoever thought this pokemon was a good idea....just.....-sigh-
My name is Fluffy. LOVE MEEEE!!!!
If old pokemon (shinies and nonshinies) are kept neutral, then you will just further advance the march of the tank regime making the overall mass of pokemon in the game useless for anything other than tanking. Not to mention the concept that most of the things that fight these tanks also need speed to be relevant.
Tanks are so overpowering that megas are literally the way to handle them. If we have to go and re-catch everything, shiny or not, that means that it is just more imbalance to the game than it already has in terms of offense vs defense.
To put "my two pennies worth" opinion:
Once implemented natures should be randomized for old and new pokemon.
(if you get desired nature, lucky you)
Once per month (preferably 28th of the month), in Goldenrod and Saffron Union room, special NPC will provide you with a quest "Finding true self".
Where you'll have to travel across the world finding out who you truly are. (Visiting rarely visited places, talking with random NPCs, etc.)
Upon successful completion (could be unsuccessful) NPC will offer you special item "Nature Mark" for price of 500k per piece.
Each player will be able to buy (Number of badges - 4) "Nature Marks". (5 badges are required to enter the Union room)
"Nature Mark" is trade-able item held in backpack. Once used it grants one "Nature Change" on Playerdex.
After using "Nature Change" on desired pokemon, "Nature Change" changes pokemon's nature into new random nature.
Keeping in mind that there are 25 natures, nature changing will be difficult, but possible process.
This will allow older players to spend their abnormal money stash and keep their favorites pokemon competitive.
Newer players (with 5 or less badges) would be mostly unharmed by those changes.
Mid game players (with 6 - 16 badges and just finished game) will be harmed the hardest. Their low money balance will not allow them to buy several "Nature marks", keeping in mind that change is random it will be extremely hard for them.
Possible solution might be making a new non-trade-able item "Young Nature mark" (or simply direct "Nature Change" in playerdex) which costs 250k for players with 6-15 badges.
Please keep in mind that it's my own opinion and it should be not used as definitive conclusion.
Instead I encourage you to fix my mistakes and provide better solution.
Thank you, with nothing but smile for you
Netko
Once implemented natures should be randomized for old and new pokemon.
(if you get desired nature, lucky you)
Once per month (preferably 28th of the month), in Goldenrod and Saffron Union room, special NPC will provide you with a quest "Finding true self".
Where you'll have to travel across the world finding out who you truly are. (Visiting rarely visited places, talking with random NPCs, etc.)
Upon successful completion (could be unsuccessful) NPC will offer you special item "Nature Mark" for price of 500k per piece.
Each player will be able to buy (Number of badges - 4) "Nature Marks". (5 badges are required to enter the Union room)
"Nature Mark" is trade-able item held in backpack. Once used it grants one "Nature Change" on Playerdex.
After using "Nature Change" on desired pokemon, "Nature Change" changes pokemon's nature into new random nature.
Keeping in mind that there are 25 natures, nature changing will be difficult, but possible process.
This will allow older players to spend their abnormal money stash and keep their favorites pokemon competitive.
Newer players (with 5 or less badges) would be mostly unharmed by those changes.
Mid game players (with 6 - 16 badges and just finished game) will be harmed the hardest. Their low money balance will not allow them to buy several "Nature marks", keeping in mind that change is random it will be extremely hard for them.
Possible solution might be making a new non-trade-able item "Young Nature mark" (or simply direct "Nature Change" in playerdex) which costs 250k for players with 6-15 badges.
Please keep in mind that it's my own opinion and it should be not used as definitive conclusion.
Instead I encourage you to fix my mistakes and provide better solution.
Thank you, with nothing but smile for you
Netko
You are beating around the bush Zooks.Zooks said:
That is correct. New players are turning back even without ability to change natures. I can imagine what will happen when that ability is given.Zooks said:
You are suggesting that someone quits the game once they beat all the gyms. I am positive that late game is mostly about PvP and trading. Your statement is very poor and biased, sorry.Zooks said: