Is Slaking Overpowered in this game?

[FumikoSeikai]

Hello all. I wasnt sure where to post this. I apologize if it is the wrong section but I had a question/concern.

First of all thanks to the staff of PWO for all your hard work despite all the recent trouble. Thanks for bringing the game back to us. And thank you for the attack updates.

But on another note I have a inquiry about the attack updates mainly concerning pokemon that may now be severely over powered. Mainly everyone's favorite to cheese with, Slaking.

It seems that after the move Focus Punch was fixed Slaking can take out almost an entire party by himself virtually very easy at that. He is literally unstoppable and only a faster Slaking and kill a Slaking meaning now everyone will have to own a Slaking to do pvp battles just to even the playing field and I think that is unfair and a bit bogus that now EVERYONE will own a Slaking just to have a chance at pvp battles.

Usually in the handhelds Slaking is very strong but his Loaf Around ability sort of balances it out. However the battle system for PWO does not implement abilities so Slaking has no loaf around ability and many moves do not require to be recharged.

So my question is will these important battle elements EVER be implemented in PWO for the sake of restoring balance to the pvp battles?
and
Until then we will see everyone using the same poke just because it is overpowered?

Personally I feel that before any more updates are made to the game, the battle system is fixed so that all trainers have a fighting chance with pokemon that they actually WANT to use instead of everyone just using the same exact pokemon just to stack on wins. If this is going to be the case then you might as well not release new pokemon and only sell Slakoth's in the Token Store because at this point no other poke will matter.

Just an opinion from a fellow trainer. XD

 

[Merse]

That "EVER" turns the whole post to a demand instead of an "opinion".... Too bad.
On the other hand, it's good to see another fellow Gardevoir fan

 

[PkmnTrainerReginald]

I dont think it was a demand. And stating that just will just derail everyone from the point of the post.

Anyway I agree. I started battled again just to find everyone complaining about how severely over powered Slaking now is. I didnt pay any attention to what they were actually saying though because I was searching for Marill. O_O lololol when I finally started battling again everyone who had a Slaking wouldnt even bother with their other poke's. They'd just throw Slaking straight out and dominate. So I battled it enough to tell that because of the new update it is severely over powered and I do not want to train a Slaking just to even the playing field. I am already using enough super pokes like Slaking, Tyranitor and even Aggron and that alone is already too many ubers for me. So I want to trade one of them out just because what is the point of having almost over 200 pokemon in the game just for everyone to only use the ubers all the time? Defeats the fun of battling just to battle and now everyone definitely has the same exact team with nearly everyone owning or Slaking or raising one.

So yeah I am interested in if this will ever be fixed as well. Because if not I agree with creepy Fumiko, just only sell Slakoth at the Token Store because that will be the only desired pokemon.

P.S Fumiko you suck! You tried to spook me and Keith yesterday but you forgot that I already know you exist since you commented on my fan fic. >8-P

 

[crenel]

1. Focus does 50 base damage, slightly more than Rock Smash (which does 40).
2. Slaking should not have access to any fighting-type attacks stronger than that at this point in time.
3. None of Slaking's other attacks were altered or modified to such an extent as to be sudden powerhouse techniques.

You need to be specific with reports like this, because if you're not then I don't know what the complaint is or how to address it. 10 base power should not have a profound effect on the game, nor should it cause Slaking to become immortal. You need to report specific details regarding what attack was used against what Pokemon and etc.

As of right now I really don't know what your report is other than "Slaking is strong" which isn't anything new. Sorry to be curt, but without proper feedback I can't do anything.

 

[FumikoSeikai]

But... this wasnt a report. That is why I didnt post it in the report section. This was just a discussion thread. Me noting that Slaking is still pretty over powered and it has a huge impact on the pvp community. I was just making note that he may be over powered because he lacks the loaf ability which in the handhelds evens him out. But in here he can just rampage and even though Focus Punch has a 50 base attack, in this game the way to compensate for the fact that Slaking can rampage without loafing was that at least a players only defense for Slaking was a Rock type or Steel type. But now that Focus Punch works and coupled with Slaking's base atk, he wipes even those guys out in one hit. Everyone knows Slaking was already very strong but at least we had a way around it. But now we dont... unless you have another faster Slaking. Which means everyone will just start using Slakings to fight Slakings.

I was just sharing my opinion on what I've been seeing since I've been hearing a ton of talk about how its no longer fun to pvp since now everyone is after Slaking to beat other Slakings since that seems to be the only way to even the playing field. That is all I was doing.

 

[PkmnMasterRed]

I actually understand this post very much.
I was making a list of things about PWO that I felt it would be cool to know if it would be worked on in the near future or not and Slaking would have been one of them but I figured since a players only defense which was to counter Slaking was to use a Steel or Rock type, like Steelix or Golem, I decided that it would not be worth mentioning in the list since that seemed to be a fair compensation. There are enough diverse Rock types and a few good steel types to catch that not everyone had to have the same team. So I figured not to include that.
But now that the game is back up and I am reanalyzing my notes and talking to trainers I find the most ask what is a good pokemon for the new Slaking... which confused me because Slaking isnt new. But they meant now that some of the moves been updated I guess, he is back to just rampaging teams. So I would respond "I guess the only good pokemon to fight Slaking is Slaking" as to which they would usually respond "-_-"

Honestly I dont think anything can be done about it at the current time and that is just how it is. Pvp will have to just deal with it until the battle system is fixed to a point where Slaking can loaf around. Honestly Crenel there isnt anything you can do unless you took focus punch from Slaking's move pool and even that is unfair to Slaking users. I wouldnt like that if I owned a Slaking, which I dont, because everyone else does.

Btw great job on the attack updates. For those not spamming Slaking battling is cool so far. I'm having some interesting close matches.

 

[PkmnTrainerReginald]

I mean, at the end of the day this game is still in the beta. So.... yeah. For now just deal with it the best way you can and be grateful that the game is even up at all ya feel me Fumiko? I know it sucks. The dynamic of pvp is a bit thrown off but just imagine that it will work eventually.... I guess for now just avoid pvp battles period if you want to avoid Slakings. I dunno, (shrugs)

(goes back to writing Crisis of the Regions)

 

[FumikoSeikai]

Yeah I get it. Thanks for the input guys.

 

[crenel]

But... this wasnt a report. That is why I didnt post it in the report section. This was just a discussion thread. Me noting that Slaking is still pretty over powered and it has a huge impact on the pvp community. I was just making note that he may be over powered because he lacks the loaf ability which in the handhelds evens him out. But in here he can just rampage and even though Focus Punch has a 50 base attack, in this game the way to compensate for the fact that Slaking can rampage without loafing was that at least a players only defense for Slaking was a Rock type or Steel type. But now that Focus Punch works and coupled with Slaking's base atk, he wipes even those guys out in one hit. Everyone knows Slaking was already very strong but at least we had a way around it. But now we dont... unless you have another faster Slaking. Which means everyone will just start using Slakings to fight Slakings.

I was just sharing my opinion on what I've been seeing since I've been hearing a ton of talk about how its no longer fun to pvp since now everyone is after Slaking to beat other Slakings since that seems to be the only way to even the playing field. That is all I was doing.

Your topic post implied that you were unhappy with the apparent strength of #289 Slaking. It might not have been a direct report, but you were specifically discussing the reasons as to why you feel that it is too strong (or at the very least stronger than before). I read all of these topics and treat them as reports, as they help to identify problems with balance within our broken system.

I understand that trying to balance an inherently flawed system is in and of itself inherently flawed, but it is an exercise in futility that I am willing to practice. If you feel that Slaking is overpowered, I need to know exactly how and why you feel that it is. Adding 49 base power to Focus Punch makes it 10 base power stronger than Rock Smash. Focus Punch cannot reasonably be the problem, so there is something else at work that you are probably overlooking or omitting.

For the first few hours after the initial update, Slaking had access to a 100 base power Reversal by virtue of Vigoroth. This was quickly rectified: other Pokemon, such as Kangaskhan, rely on the strength of Reversal to be semi-viable in competition. The solution was to remove Reversal from Slakoth/Vigoroth/Slaking entirely. There may still be some players with Slakings that know Reversal. If this is the case, then it needs to be reported as any Slaking that knows Reversal is not working as intended. My assumption is that you have encountered Slakings that know Reversal, not Slakings that know Focus Punch, as the problematic bunch.

Rock Smash and Focus Punch are essentially the same technique; until there is strong evidence that 10 base power is the difference between 30-50% base health and the claimed 100% base health I will be working under the assumption that there is no relative change between Slaking in this battle environment or Slaking in the previous one. There's simply no evidence otherwise.

Edit: Perhaps you have confused Focus Punch with Uproar, which is a 42 base power Normal-type attack that hits twice. When used by Slaking, this is a 63 base power Normal-type attack that hits twice.

 

[FumikoSeikai]

It's fine Crenel ^_^, thanks for looking into my post though, I know you are taking your job seriously.
At this point I cant explain my concern enough where it will make sense. Maybe someone else can, but if you cant see the issue with how he can effect the pvp battles and change the dynamics of the game then there isnt anything I can say to bring my point across.

I'll just do what Reggie said and leave it alone. After all it is a beta and you guys have a lot to work on already without me adding stresses like this.

 

[crenel]

It's fine Crenel ^_^, thanks for looking into my post though, I know you are taking your job seriously.
At this point I cant explain my concern enough where it will make sense. Maybe someone else can, but if you cant see the issue with how he can effect the pvp battles and change the dynamics of the game then there isnt anything I can say to bring my point across.

I'll just do what Reggie said and leave it alone. After all it is a beta and you guys have a lot to work on already without me adding stresses like this.

Bold: I do see it and have tweaked Slaking for months. Slaking's current power is approximate to its power before the most recent update. There is no sudden surge in power on paper or otherwise. Slaking did come out slightly better in this update than he was before it, but so did every Pokemon in the game.

Tauros would be the only exception as Giga Impact was reduced to 100 base power. Perhaps the sudden lack of Tauros at the top end of the competitive battle scene has re-exposed Slaking's existing strength. When Tauros was first updated it replaced Slaking as the "scare factor" in battles as it had sudden hype. Now that Tauros is gone again, Slaking has that hype again.

 

[PkmnMasterRed]

I dont want to keep going with this either because it just sounds like Slaking hate. But I guess Fumiko is having trouble conveying her point even though she claims it isnt a report but more a general opinion...

But if I may...

The point she seems to be making is that as of now Slaking is the most powerful non legendary pokemon in the game. In fact that is also true in the handhelds. So there really isnt much of a difference.

What Fumiko needs to understand is that Slaking virtually didnt change in this game. It's just he doesnt have slack off or whatever it's called. But he is almost identical in strength to a Slaking from the handhelds so nothing really changed.

But there are a few factors to now consider when facing a Slaking.

-Tied with Regigigas, Slaking has the highest Attack stat out of all Normal-type Pokémon
-At 670, Slaking has the highest base stat total of any non-legendary Pokémon, tying with the legendary Pokémon Groudon, Kyogre, and Regigigas. This makes it the only non-legendary Pokémon to have a base stat total of over 600.
-Although Slaking is said to slack off like Slakoth, it gains a higher speed stat upon evolving from Vigoroth (although Vigoroth does not have Truant).

So think about his speed plus his atk power and give him a Fighting Type move.
Now think about that combo and think about all the existing fighting types currently available in the game. Most of them still wont be able to take down Slaking as fast as he can take them down.

THEN think about the types that could hold their own against his power which were rock and steel. With his atk he is killed Tyranitars, Steelix, Aggrons in basically one hit. Even a Snorlax he is taking down in one hit.

I am not sure but I think that is her point.

But Crenel as stated before there isnt really anything you can do about it until the battle system is upgraded and Slaking will slack off after every other attack. That is how they handle him in the handhelds, but these arent the handhelds. It's a beta of something very close to the handhelds and it will just keep getting better.

I think her main point is not only are there no fighting pokemon strong enough to really take down a Slaking, there are now no more defenses for him other than another faster Slaking. But I'm afraid this problem is unavoidable unless he has Slack off which he doesnt.... or unless some pokemon had Intimidate which they dont either. lol.

There is nothing that can be done about it. Oh well. Just play the game.

 

[FumikoSeikai]

Crenel I wasnt trying to offend. I'm just saying I am not making my point clear so there is nothing else I can say or do.
I'm actually down with this topic now and moved on already so it's whatever. It was just an opinion.

And to everyone who thinks I'm hating on Slaking, it was just an opinion, everyone can relax and go back to enjoying their game or whatever they were doing.

 

[HeavyPetter]

Slowbro would beat Slaking... if Slaking didn't have a dark move That's one of the things that are OP about it. It can use fling or faint attack against any psychic pokémon which otherwise would be pretty good Slaking counters hitting its low special defense instead of its enormous physical defense.

 

[Saric]

Slowbro would beat Slaking... if Slaking didn't have a dark move That's one of the things that are OP about it. It can use fling or faint attack against any psychic pokémon which otherwise would be pretty good Slaking counters hitting its low special defense instead of its enormous physical defense.

Don't need either fling nor faint attack. Punishment is currently set at 90 base power which just destroys nearly any psychic type.

 

[CheckeredZebra]

Ah Crenel was just being to the point you guys, don't worry. So long as you're trying to state your point clearly, your concerns will be taken into account. =)

What points I've seen were made:

1. Slaking doesn't have its ability and has retained his high stats.
2. Slaking, with a FIGHTING type move, counters a lot of pokemon that previously killed him.

With his atk he is killed Tyranitars, Steelix, Aggrons in basically one hit. Even a Snorlax he is taking down in one hit.