Evolution Items
- Thread starter Dragon16
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Which one are you looking for? It's not the policy of PWO to just add evolutions (and/or their items) without a valid reason for doing so in Johto or Kanto. Off the top of my head I can't think of a pokemon currently ingame that an evolution item could be added to that is either impossible due to multi line evolutions not being available yet (eevee for example) or shouldn't be added due to it bringing more 3rd or 4th generation pokemon to the game too soon. Possibly 'upgrade' for porygon but as it isn't available playing the game as yet I think that could wait until it is properly added.
Why do you think 3rd and 4th generation evolutions shouldnt be added just because there are only 2 regions? I mean if nintendo had made the other evolutions at the time of the first 2 regions they would have been present. Im sure if Kanto or Johto were revisited in any of the pokemon formats the later evolutions would be present because there is no reason why they wouldnt be.
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BoboTheClown said:
Possibly, in HG, SS you could have higher generation evolutions straight off the bat- such as togekiss if you had the item for it, but previous to that fire red and leaf green did not, you had to progress through the game and fill your pokedex etc before getting access to 'international' trading and areas in that game- the islands- that had 2nd and 3rd gen pokemon running free. All of these required quests to unlock and I think that's a good way to do it myself. Personally I'd like to travel Hoenn on PWO one day gathering up all new pokemon not just pokemon that I've already hunted out here in Kanto and Johto. I think it's great they are available for a limited time during Events but I don't think any more should be added to the current maps, and the same goes for evolution items beyond gen 2.
Fire red and leaf green were 3rd generation kind of werent they? 3rd generation hadnt introduced any new evolutions anyway unless Im mistaken? I am all for keeping 4th generation pokes from being catchable and even from token store until the right maps are available and same for 3rd generations. I just think for evolutions it is logical a pokemon should be able to evolve when its evolution exists. Certain pokemon simply arent viable for battling without their evolutions being present and it could open a lot of new avenues for the competetive battling scene
CheckeredZebra
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From a consistency standpoint, random new evolution items (that aren't stones or for a limited time) could cause problems later. Metal Coat might not work as intended, but it is still an item, so when/if the system is reworked it can just be tweaked.
Items like Ancient Tablet, on the other hand, are items that didn't exist in the handhelds at all previously. If they were able to be obtained constantly, both it and the new system would have to be continued in the game, which kind of makes that pokemon's evolution process more complicated than it needs to be. (Instead of "Learn ancient power" it becomes "Learn ancient power OR use an ancient tablet." Which is silly.)
As for item like Dusk Stones or Oval stones, dunno. Discuss at your leisure. I've just assumed it isn't a priority and that such releases are best saved up as quest prizes/incentives to accomplish something.
Items like Ancient Tablet, on the other hand, are items that didn't exist in the handhelds at all previously. If they were able to be obtained constantly, both it and the new system would have to be continued in the game, which kind of makes that pokemon's evolution process more complicated than it needs to be. (Instead of "Learn ancient power" it becomes "Learn ancient power OR use an ancient tablet." Which is silly.)
As for item like Dusk Stones or Oval stones, dunno. Discuss at your leisure. I've just assumed it isn't a priority and that such releases are best saved up as quest prizes/incentives to accomplish something.
CheckeredZebra said:
I can think of sillier things than there being 2 ways of evolving a pokemon, you could even make it so that the ancient tablet was reworked into a TM for ancient power or something like that. It seems to me that it is probably going to be a long time until the server will be able to deal with evolutions where a certain move has to be learnt and items are a convenient way around this. I just mainly feel the argue of not letting pokemon evolve because their evolution is a different generation is a silly argument because logically by anyway of thinking about it there is no reason why they shouldnt just because they are in a different region
Tecknician
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Uber metagame question. How do you know their evolutions exists? Do you know of any player with these assumed pokemon?
CheckeredZebra
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I'm just noting consistency errors that could come from permanently enabling non-item evolutions. For item evolutions, I had no disagreement against them because no system was actually suggested for them. My point had nothing to do with item evolutions.
As for players obtaining evolution items, staff would have to code in merchants/quests to get all of them into only 2 regions, regardless. Or they'd become token-store only items, but who really wants that? The NPCs could become a crowding/convolution issue depending on if it's done well or not, too. (There are like 25 of the items; places would have to be made for these things and in a way that is fair/makes sense.)
Besides, having been here long enough to see this happen several times firsthand, It's not just "Yay Murkrow can evolve now" with players. It's "Yay Murkrow can evolve now, but what about Sneasel?" Then "Yay I can get Honchkrow and Weavile but other people want to have a Gliscor."
Does "Yay I can get TM Icebeam but where is TM Earthquake" sound familiar?
As for players obtaining evolution items, staff would have to code in merchants/quests to get all of them into only 2 regions, regardless. Or they'd become token-store only items, but who really wants that? The NPCs could become a crowding/convolution issue depending on if it's done well or not, too. (There are like 25 of the items; places would have to be made for these things and in a way that is fair/makes sense.)
Besides, having been here long enough to see this happen several times firsthand, It's not just "Yay Murkrow can evolve now" with players. It's "Yay Murkrow can evolve now, but what about Sneasel?" Then "Yay I can get Honchkrow and Weavile but other people want to have a Gliscor."
Does "Yay I can get TM Icebeam but where is TM Earthquake" sound familiar?
Furthermore, if there isn't a generational cut off, then one pokemon will be able to evolve into 4th gen while some other random pokemon won't be able to. It would be unbalanced unless all of the systematically possible evolutions were included in a single or rapid-fire update (if you want these to be more permanent additions).
This means adding 25 separate items into only 2 regions. In a fair/sensible way within NPC coding limits.
Ancient Tablet worked as a temporary award because 1) it was temporary and 2) it was an event and the expectations of players matched how the item was meant to be used. It left a little bit of temporary "unbalance" in generational evolution, but made players happy for a time with little consequence whereas extensive programming of several, permanent items would be more difficult and sloppier in execution that people realize. At least, that's how I'm predicting it thus far. It could still be worth it, however. Just...there isn't a "why not" to this. Leaving such an update half finished would look awkward.
This means adding 25 separate items into only 2 regions. In a fair/sensible way within NPC coding limits.
Ancient Tablet worked as a temporary award because 1) it was temporary and 2) it was an event and the expectations of players matched how the item was meant to be used. It left a little bit of temporary "unbalance" in generational evolution, but made players happy for a time with little consequence whereas extensive programming of several, permanent items would be more difficult and sloppier in execution that people realize. At least, that's how I'm predicting it thus far. It could still be worth it, however. Just...there isn't a "why not" to this. Leaving such an update half finished would look awkward.
Tecknician said:
Slightly confused by this question, I dont get what you mean by knowing whether the pokemon exists :/ Their evolutions exist because all 4th generation pokemon are already ingame so I dont really understand what you mean
Zeb, I know it would be a lot of work in getting all these items ready, and maybe housing them all would be an issue, Im not even expecting this to happen any time soon. Im just mainly against the idea of the "not being in the right region" argument for evolutions as it seems nonsensical.
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I think I am open minded about this. In fact I was like you guys to begin with and just wanting anything that could be included in the game as it is. Now I understand better and agree with the reasons for withholding certain things for later times. Honestly I'd rather see a new area ingame where you can catch porygon as HR, maybe one of the buildings we haven't opened up yet, then add the upgrade item for porygon2. And make flareon, vaporeon, umbreon and espeon catchable in suitable sites until multi line evo's are available. Those things make more sense to me than adding in honchkrow and other 4th gen evo's as perma adds to the game right now.
Tecknician
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How do you know they are in game? Only "4th gen pokemon" I know that are in game are the ones released for the events.BoboTheClown said:
Remember meta, don't think about it as a person playing the game, but as if you was the person you are controlling in the world.
The-Predator
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Tecknician said:
Well I once saw a staff member having a S cresselia and other pokemon which i cant remember atm so yes i also think they are already ingame just not released yet, although u keep saying u dont want to get ingame more pokemon that are not possible to be added in kanto-johto areas, i dont see that as a problem, i mean , we dont have hoenn region and 3rd gen pokemon have been available in TS for years, dont see why 4gen pokes shouldnt be added, dont take this as a complain but the reason staff has gaven us doesnt make sense at all (at least not for me) Well i think this kinda suggestions is not for make a complaint nor get our staff annoyed but trying to get a bit advanced since theres no signs of hoenn being added anytime soon, well why dont to get a few more pokemon available via TS??
Tecknician
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Saric, you are thinking non-meta game. Don't think as a player who knows this is a game.
Think of it like the anime, ash didn't know lugia and the other johto pokemon existed (or atleast never hinted at it) until he went to johto himself.
Think of it like the anime, ash didn't know lugia and the other johto pokemon existed (or atleast never hinted at it) until he went to johto himself.
Tecknician
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Ash: "What's that?"
Pokedex "There is no data"
Pokedex "There is no data"
No one is talking about random 4th generations here, this topic is talking about evolutions so I'm not sure what hitmons example of porygon is getting at, it's a completely different issue as is tecks point about how someone who hasn't been to the later regions wouldn't know what can be found there. Evolutions are simply a different case. Don't get me wrong, I'm really not expecting this to happen soon, I know there are more pressing issues, I'm just trying to fight against the idea that the reason that they shouldn't exist yet is because the right maps aren't there, that should have nothing to do with evolutions. The reasons that zebby said are much more logical reasons. Just because a poked ex has no data for a Pokemon doesn't seem a logical reason why a Pokemon that satisfies it's evolution conditions wouldn't evolve just because it's not in a particular area.