[ECONOMY] Forcing players to get rid of their poks

Klay

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This idea was born tonight, while Ahmed/Midou was sharing interesting but unbalanced suggestions in Discord about thunderclap's thread.
(link to said thread)

I'm also conscious 99% of people reading this will be totally against this idea, and I don't mind. World is full of selfish humans who want more without giving something back from themselves. No reason for PWO to not have those awful persons as players.


In real life, there's a consumerism economic system which is actually not as bad as most boring people are claiming. They don't have other good and realistic alternatives anyway.

In most MMORPGs, there's also a kind of consumerism economic system based on drops (rare or common)/manufactured items. This economic system works because those games have a workmanship system which can't be fully maxed with only 1 character. That gives to groups of players with different specialties, also called guilds, a real use.
But that can't really be done in PWO. Potions aren't used in PvP, to avoid a literal P2W PvP system, so it can't be a workmanship. Yeah, I see you Ahmed/Midou, "but wild poks could drop some special items that could be combined to create some rare items, like evolution items or PvP items/wild poks could drop some berries that could be combined to create some (released and non-released) pokéballs". Sure. So the evolution stone NPCs in dept. stores will be useless (aka cash will stay in pockets) AND you're removing all good potential event rewards (altering "events with interesting quests and worthwhile rewards" to a "dumb swarm" state). Smart. Filling a hole with some dirt from another place, that's just moving the hole.
So no, it can't be realistically be done in PWO.


What could be done, and is the main subject of this thread, is adding a "PvP fade out" system, with a ranked PvP and a casual PvP.
Once you catch/buy/get a pok in any other way, some kind of timer bound to that pok appears. Let's say a 6 months long timer. Once this timer stops, you can't use this pok for PvP again. So if you're a battler, you have a dead weight rotting in your boxes. Since boxes sizes are limited, it would be way better for yourself to sell it or, OMG SOMETHING PWO DON'T HAVE, trade it for another PvP pok with another player.

Sure, it would be annoying, but, hey, that would put some decent poks in mart which worth buying. Isn't that what's called a "healthy economy"?

Also, to not scare new players or casual players who occasionally do PvP battles with their friends, PvP system could be separated in 2 categories:
-ranked PvP, back to zero every 2 months, with rewards for all 20 players with highest ranks (10pds for 1st, 5pds for 2nd to 10th, 2pds for 11th to 20th). This way, good players who have to often buy new poks will always gain a lil extra that could be used to buy their next PvP poks ;
-casual PvP, no rewards, just fun with friends ;

Once a pok timer stops, this pok can't be used for ranked PvP by the current player, but can still be used for casual PvP.
Also, to avoid some idiots giving their PvP poks to their friends and taking them back instantly just to reset this timer, once a player gets rid of a pok, he can't use it for ranked PvP before a 2 years delay. This meaning, if player X gives pok A to player Y, whenever player X takes back pok A, player X can't use pok A before 2 years has passed since player X get rid of pok A.

About this ranked PvP, REP could be used (and modified to allow an infinite-looking REP points system) to determine someone's rank. To start a ranked PvP battle, a player has to click on a Ranked Battle button, somewhere like on its Trainer tab, and wait until someone near his rank (until 10 rank lower/higher) is also waiting for a ranked PvP battle. If there's nobody, then you can still have the option to get out of the waiting state. This way, awful people who wait for server to be empty and try to battle their friends (with more than 10 ranks apart) will not be rewarded by their behavior.


Every infos with this color is to take as an example. It can be adjusted in a BALANCED way (Ahmed/Midou, I see you).

If I forgot something, this post will be updated.


 

Jinji

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Hmmm. I'm not sure I support this idea as described. However, I'm now contemplating the potential of a ranked tournament mechanic which runs on a monthly or quarterly basis; with a reward mechanic available for players who are willing to give up something they already own to participate in the rankings.
 

CheckeredZebra

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Honestly, PWO has such a high ceiling of perfection (max speed, shiny Tier 5 things) that they leave sooner than they can come in. The ladder is almost endless, so unlike many pokemon games you do not need to have pokemon fade from use. This requires accepting that some pokemon will inherently not have any real value (shiny rat), but that is a small price to pay when compared to the stress this might cause.

You are correct about the crafting system. Instead, PWO should sell convenience. Getting better and better pokemon still can cost millions last I checked, and again less useful but "beautiful" or "cool" shiny pokemon still command a high price. There is demand and the spawn system -should- be as such that there are lots of "steps" people can take to improve their collection, and it would take years and years before they can actually reach it.

The more pokemon added to the game, the more impossible it is to truly complete this game by any one individual. Some people have been extremely smart with money and been here for a decade, and yet they still do not have everything they want. It's ok for some things to basically not exist.

With all that said I'm not sure what problem you are trying to fix here - you never fully stated it?
 

thunderclap

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I took the problem to be that there are no "good" pokemons for sale. People only sell their duplicates of things, or worthless things. There's little motivation to liquidate your collection of "good" stuff because there isn't much on the market to easily buy. I'm definitely guilty of that, and I can see how this idea could stimulate more buying and selling in a good way. If everyone started selling good stuff, it would actually make the pricing more competitive for those things too. No more $5m shiny rattatas.

Some people will be upset about being pushed to sell their OT (original trainer) rare pokes though. The OT label adds intrinsic value that can't be recouped in pokedollars. ShinyMarill will never part with her namesake. On the other hand if you exempt OT pokes from ever expiring, nobody will sell them at all..
 

Isguros

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As someone that doesn't battle (at all), I'm kinda intrigued with the concept of Ranked PvP seasons. This would give PvP that extra little oomph everyone seems to be looking for, and it would help bring beginners into the battle scene.

Trading Tragedies:
Let's start off strong by saying that the main issue with your idea is the exception you made when it comes to trading Pokemon. From the title I've come to understand that the main reason for making this thread was to help out the economy, but other than increasing the number of Pokemon offered for trade, and causing confusion/frustration in the process, I don't see this clause helping the economy by influencing the prices of Pokemon at all. Instead I would suggest dropping that rule, and just allow all Pokemon that have a catch date within a set amount of time from the start of the current PvP season, regardless of who caught them or when they were traded.

The good ol' days:
You've stated that you wanted to make a distinction between Ranked and Regular PvP matches, and I'm all for it. However I don't believe you've clarified any differences beside the Regular matches not counting towards your rank. I think those regular matches are perfectly suited to just drag and drop our current ways of battling. If you want to use a team consisting entirely of old IV shiny Lapras that don't do anything but using Sheer Cold: you should be able to do so (as long as the opponent agrees, of course).

There's no such thing as a free lunch:
I understand and share your opinion about prizes, but you as well have come to the realization that there'll always be people who think differently about this issue. In an ideal world I would suggest points towards an exclusive store with account bound items and nifty tutor moves that can be helpful in your future PvP endeavors, but since that's not the case, I guess Battle Points have to do.

Some words of wisdom:
There was something else I wanted to add on to this, but it seems I've forgotten what I wanted to say... Anyhow, even though you already said that people wouldn't like your idea, and responses on this thread didn't prove otherwise, I can still appreciate the efforts you put in trying to come up with new fun ideas that aren't detrimental to this game. Chapeau!
 

Rygar

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If I understand this, this is pretty lop sided since it only focuses on battlers. How about putting in a timer that if a pokemon sits in your collection without being used in PvP for more than 3 months it will lose its shinyness and its IVs will be re-randomized? This sounds like a fairer approach.
 

Klay

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Then pure collectors and most half-collectors players (100% of the non-battler ones, and maybe some who are into PvP but keep 20 boxes of shiny dratini for the lolz) will leave the game, same for casuals who don't want to get involved in any way in the economy and enjoy playing with their own poks/friends poks
 
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justme1306

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If I understand this, this is pretty lop sided since it only focuses on battlers. How about putting in a timer that if a pokemon sits in your collection without being used in PvP for more than 3 months it will lose its shinyness and its IVs will be re-randomized? This sounds like a fairer approach.
oof - i dont know if you know that but most players who play pokemon games are collector who wanna catch everything items/pokemons - a lot of players doesnt like to pvp but prefer to relax and hunt - so basicly you guys sugest to take pokemons that people did hunt for years and thousands of hours? i dont get it?! you think economy will get better?! i would say it would be even worst - people would leave cause they would lose what they worked on for years - so less players = even worst economy

i took a break of pwo and keep watching forums and post like this remind me why pwo struggle that bad - instead of hunting and spend time people want stuff from other players account without working for it -
instead you guys should post good idea to really improve and bring community together instead of losing more and more players

thats was my opinion and its really sad to see idea like this when the game struggle already - my sugestion would be - go check other games and check whats the difference between pwo economy and other game - you will see - pwo need rare items/pokemon and more way to gain money so people can offer money for ' those rare collection pokemon'
cause if you wanna buy rare shinies epic stats - dont offer trash and think people will accept shiny ratata for shiny snorlax
hope everyone has a good summer and talk to you soon maybe :)(sorry for the long message :p )
 
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Rygar

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My post is partially joking, partially taking a stab at the topic since I wasn't really sincere in that suggestion.

The best pokemon are in collections and aren't going anywhere. I as a battler am forced into using 2nd rate pokemon if I want to battle, so don't think that having me give up my pokemon every few months will stimulate things much since no one would want to use my pokes, since even I don't want them (barring my Shiny Gligar which isn't meant for fighting anyways atm).

Also, it took me years to assemble enough pokemon to make 1 team, so how am I suppose to make a new team every 6 months? I suppose trading my 20+ dragonite for someone else's 20+ dragonite would solve that problem, but it wouldn't change my team at all. This would mean that being in a large alliance/ guild would be useful since we could trade pokemon back and forth amongst ourselves. This means that, we cannot use the same pokemon for 2 years after having used it, and we can only use it for 6 months. So we need an alliance/ guild to have what? At least 5 players so we can trade? I still don't see pokemon coming onto the market yet, just a lot of excessive trading.

I don't see this putting pokemon that are worth getting on the mart. If you want good pokemon then you need to make collectors give up their pokemon since they collect only the best then hoard them away from battles which is insulting to me as a battler. I want access to those good pokes so I can have something WORTH using in PvP.

Also, I agree with what Guros said. Having PvP go by a Caught Date. This would make people hunt and hunt for good pokemon a lot more. But could we have a real battle ready team within only a few months? Catching a new pokemon, EV and EXP training it, and going through Battle Tower to get moves takes a long time. By the time I get a pokemon ready to battle it could be too late to use it.
 
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Klay

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At least guilds would finally have a purpose


this being said, the 2 years stuff and else are examples, and I agree the suggestion isn't perfect at all atm (I wasn't fully content with what i ended with one year ago), it only targets new players' good (until they become "old regular" players)
also, the "you need to make collectors give up their pokemon" sounds like "go harass people to get their pokemon"


ROOH i just posted it, how can you insta-like it? D:
are you the Ultimate Stalker legends are talking about
 

justme1306

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@Rygar the problem with good pokes is the same as youre collection pokemon that you dont wanna trade - people wanna keep those - why would you put a collection pokemon u hunted for on the market? every collection pokemon(or almost) can still be found on the wild except for ivs it might be harder - but collections pokes isnt all about ivs - i would take a shiny snorlax 20+ over ratata with 32 ivs - also those pokes isnt around market cause most of old players are gone so not many people can afford those
 

Jobey

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At least guilds would finally have a purpose


this being said, the 2 years stuff and else are examples, and I agree the suggestion isn't perfect at all atm (I wasn't fully content with what i ended with one year ago), it only targets new players' good (until they become "old regular" players)
also, the "you need to make collectors give up their pokemon" sounds like "go harass people to get their pokemon"


ROOH i just posted it, how can you insta-like it? D:
are you the Ultimate Stalker legends are talking about
Guilds already have a purpose! DraCo's purpose is to rule and all other guilds have the purpose of bowing to DraCo. :p
 

Isguros

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Light colored hair, obsession with dragons and fire, a dictator that rules with an iron fist, hmmm, I'm sounding like a long lost Targaryen. :eek:
A hefty lad with an eccentric hairstyle, obsession with firepower, a dictator that thinks he's all that and a bag of chips. It sounds like you're Kim Jong-un ;)
 

Klay

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If it's to talk about a poopy show, you can go the hell away u_u

And agree with justme, staff can't do anything with collection unless they want players to leave
 

whispie

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At least guilds would finally have a purpose


this being said, the 2 years stuff and else are examples, and I agree the suggestion isn't perfect at all atm (I wasn't fully content with what i ended with one year ago), it only targets new players' good (until they become "old regular" players)
also, the "you need to make collectors give up their pokemon" sounds like "go harass people to get their pokemon"


ROOH i just posted it, how can you insta-like it? D:
are you the Ultimate Stalker legends are talking about
İkr....
 

whispie

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A hefty lad with an eccentric hairstyle, obsession with firepower, a dictator that thinks he's all that and a bag of chips. It sounds like you're Kim Jong-un ;)
At least he loves fire thingies not water thingies.he would burn and blast thingies if he fails to rule. But other water-liking dictator-terrorists would do what? Water and feed their enemies very balancedly so they die of boredom...
 
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