Dragons Den Quest

[Nikola]

-Recently I was thinking about Dragons Den. I really admire how it is revamped and it looks very nice at some point. But there are several things I am finding a bit weird. First off all quest itself is very easy to finish and anyone can enter it. Dragon's club is a very nice idea but requirements are not and especially PvP one. If I remember correctly 25 PvP wins is one of the requirements in order to finish that quest. This part is really making people to question if it is flawless. Players are getting constantly reported and yet another problem to dealt with. Others part are somehow fine comparing them with this one. Why would you let anyone who is not worthy to step onto sacred Dragon's land?

-I would like if it is possible to consider about that part with PvPs since it is being abused by a corrupted ones and it makes whole image of this quest to fade. Would replace it with another requirement such as minimum of 400 hours in game. If player is worthy of that sacred ground they should be able to prove that to a NPC once they complete another mini quests and their timer passes 400. I hope they will learn what is Pokemon type as well once they step there. This number of 400 is only an sample and it might sound strict but at this rate there will be 9 machines 1 player corrupting image of that sacred ground. Another parts are really fine, little to easy but they are fine.

-Dragons Den spawns are somehow monotonic. There are both Dratini and Dragonair catchable by surfing/fishing. Adding one common and one very rare spawn together with removal of Dragonair would make them harder to encounter which is whole point of Dragon Pokemon, being super rare. I've encountered one Bagon only in period of 30 minutes. Wasn't bad though but that is not what something super rare should be. While those awesome Pokemon are mostly available for corrupted machines spending weeks there till their power supply burns out gives totally wrong image of that sacred ground. Simple as that. They are way easy to encounter. As a dragon trainer I can say for sure that they are fading away.

-People complained about Dratini skin telling that is almost impossible to find one. I hope you took into consideration that people are often going easy way instead of hard way. Personally on my alt account I didn't managed to get any yet since I am hunting there once in a while. But again this change is going into favor of machines. While some people are trying to get skin on a honest way others are sleeping while their machine is doing a dirty work in specific time where there is no GM online. Once they get that skin chances are, that they will enter the Dragons Den. As I mentioned above. Dragons Den is a sacred ground of a Dragon Pokemon. Pretty sure that is not place for a corrupted player. I had an urge to make this topic. I am well aware that chances are slim for any possible changes. Just reminding you what Dragons Den is...in case you forgot.

 

[Boora]

i Agree with the idea, but not with the example , making it based on hours will give an insane advantage to the players with more then 400hours
and will just lead to more posts like this, when the quest was hard people complained, now that is easy more people complaining , it will never end
in my own opinion i do think it is easy and was against the dratini skin being easier to get, but that's the past

about the pvp i actually do like the 25 pvp wins requirement only cause it encourages people to pvp and most grow to love it and become battlers
i do agree that some people are abusing it and buying wins, but there's nothing that can really be done about it,
if you ask me, leave the pvp requirement alone, report the abusers , but DO add another requirement that Everyone have to do , even people that finished the quest
make it super hard ,fun and challenging , make it so that who ever actually doing it will only bother to do it on an account that they care about , this way i doubt nayone will hack in there.


now for the spawn, if you do make it harder to get into i will agree with Darcia about removing Dragonair, ,
but if you actually go through with it, and make the new requirement super challenging , do revamp the DD add some Rares that are actually rares, maybe 1 or 2 Vr's
its not that crazy, look at mt.silver 3 rares, look at cerulean caves, ditto,Wobbuffet
if these changes will be done, Dragons will be Worth something again, and with the rares/vrs that a crazy motivation to do the "new requirement" that will follow,

just my thoughts,ideas.

 

[Merse]

I love Darcia's ideas.
For the record, I spent 2 weeks in DD without finding Bagon, so its rarity is fine IMO. I don't know about Dratini as I didn't hunt it yet.
That 400 hours part is indeed an issue, as hours can be collected with a bot just like Pokemon or the Dratini skin. There should be some kind of buffer part of the quest as it leads to the most sacred part of the whole game, but simply adding a minimum gameplay time is just not right - not the way Darcia would put it. I think the idea of letting only experienced trainers into the Den is basically an excellent idea, but it shouldn't be "The buffer part" of the quest. That's why I preferred when you had to have all the 16 badges before you could enter. By the time you got all of them you proved that you're worthy.
Now I know that the devs want to keep the DD be accessible only with the Jotho badges, so add a 2-300 hours game time requirement, and keep the skin hunt, or replace it with something equally time consuming. At least it helps to reach the time requirement

E: Yes Boora, it's me

 

[mad30]

-Recently I was thinking about Dragons Den. I really admire how it is revamped and it looks very nice at some point. But there are several things I am finding a bit weird. First off all quest itself is very easy to finish and anyone can enter it. Dragon's club is a very nice idea but requirements are not and especially PvP one. If I remember correctly 25 PvP wins is one of the requirements in order to finish that quest. This part is really making people to question if it is flawless. Players are getting constantly reported and yet another problem to dealt with. Others part are somehow fine comparing them with this one. Why would you let anyone who is not worthy to step onto sacred Dragon's land?

-I would like if it is possible to consider about that part with PvPs since it is being abused by a corrupted ones and it makes whole image of this quest to fade. Would replace it with another requirement such as minimum of 400 hours in game. If player is worthy of that sacred ground they should be able to prove that to a NPC once they complete another mini quests and their timer passes 400. I hope they will learn what is Pokemon type as well once they step there. This number of 400 is only an sample and it might sound strict but at this rate there will be 9 machines 1 player corrupting image of that sacred ground. Another parts are really fine, little to easy but they are fine.

i actually considered this but decided against it, ultimately i felt battling fit better in with the story line (proving you are a dragon fanatic so to speak and are worthy for the club) i felt for the story the club would be more concern about your strength than how long you have been a trainer. ultimately this is a game with some sort of story and as such decisions should be made with not just gameplay and easiness in mind but for a story. other quest uses gameplay time, I still think mixing it up and using pvp would be better.

-Dragons Den spawns are somehow monotonic. There are both Dratini and Dragonair catchable by surfing/fishing. Adding one common and one very rare spawn together with removal of Dragonair would make them harder to encounter which is whole point of Dragon Pokemon, being super rare. I've encountered one Bagon only in period of 30 minutes. Wasn't bad though but that is not what something super rare should be. While those awesome Pokemon are mostly available for corrupted machines spending weeks there till their power supply burns out gives totally wrong image of that sacred ground. Simple as that. They are way easy to encounter. As a dragon trainer I can say for sure that they are fading away.

-People complained about Dratini skin telling that is almost impossible to find one. I hope you took into consideration that people are often going easy way instead of hard way. Personally on my alt account I didn't managed to get any yet since I am hunting there once in a while. But again this change is going into favor of machines. While some people are trying to get skin on a honest way others are sleeping while their machine is doing a dirty work in specific time where there is no GM online. Once they get that skin chances are, that they will enter the Dragons Den. As I mentioned above. Dragons Den is a sacred ground of a Dragon Pokemon. Pretty sure that is not place for a corrupted player. I had an urge to make this topic. I am well aware that chances are slim for any possible changes. Just reminding you what Dragons Den is...in case you forgot.

in the handhelds both dratini and dragonair was found in the den, unless u want dratini to become vr, this shouldnt be touched imo

tbh i hate it when people make arguements about how something should be changed inorder to combat cheaters. if every quest or event would do everything it could to combat cheaters youd have crap quests and events. a corrup player is going to get access to the den regardless, big whoop, in the grand scheme of things how the corrupt player gets access to it is very minimal, too many players in this community look at minor issues that they think effects bigger issues. make a quest to easy ppl whine, make it to hard ppl whine then cheat.

i tried to find a correct balance with the quest to address everyones concern, i hope the staff dont start changing things based on the latests concern/complaint/issue/disgruntleness ect.

 

[RevengeOfTheWaterBottle]

I did some research on the announcement topic for this, and no offense but your suggestions seem like they go against what the quest was meant to do...
I mean, it's supposed to be a place people with 8/17 badges can access to use for training. If you make it have a 400 hours requirement it shuts out that possibility for 7 badge players. If you make it too hard players aren't going to put in the effort.

Also dratini in Dragon's Den wasn't super rare in the handhelds. If 20% is vr rate converted to PWO, gen IV has a 30% dratini fishing chance.

I wouldn't change it. If anything, I'd make it easier because as it stands I STILL haven't been about to get into Dragon's Den at badge 7 because saving up for a surfboard AND fishing rod at this point is a pain. (Started in Johto.)

 

[Nikola]

i actually considered this but decided against it, ultimately i felt battling fit better in with the story line (proving you are a dragon fanatic so to speak and are worthy for the club) i felt for the story the club would be more concern about your strength than how long you have been a trainer. ultimately this is a game with some sort of story and as such decisions should be made with not just gameplay and easiness in mind but for a story. other quest uses gameplay time, I still think mixing it up and using pvp would be better.

Well idea is very nice and it makes sense. But guess it is on players end what approach they are going to have. Well as every other update it requires a little bit of testing and time to pass in order to see how its going to work. Personally as I said above, every part of the quest is fine just this one is being abused but meh as one man said PWO will be newer flawless due to players.

in the handhelds both dratini and dragonair was found in the den, unless u want dratini to become vr, this shouldnt be touched imo

tbh i hate it when people make arguements about how something should be changed inorder to combat cheaters. if every quest or event would do everything it could to combat cheaters youd have crap quests and events. a corrup player is going to get access to the den regardless, big whoop, in the grand scheme of things how the corrupt player gets access to it is very minimal, too many players in this community look at minor issues that they think effects bigger issues. make a quest to easy ppl whine, make it to hard ppl whine then cheat.

i tried to find a correct balance with the quest to address everyones concern, i hope the staff dont start changing things based on the latests concern/complaint/issue/disgruntleness ect.

Not vr at all. At least one rare/common spawn with them would make them a bit more rare then they are now. Well last time they were changing their encounter ratio to make them more rare. They are just a little easy to encounter though. Nothing important. Was just a little suggestion while that thing with PvP will hardly be ever flawless but as I said...due to players. People tend to solve issues on a easy way without fighting hard for something. That is humans nature and will remain till their end. Glad to see your response since whole idea was yours. Thanks mad.

 

[mad30]

Honestly, I still think bagon should flat out be removed from dragons den, ppl keep saying how valueable that place it, but its over valued than what it should be because of two ubers (btw i did not do the spawns) there is no other map that has 2 ubers that i can think of off the top of my head. by removing bagon it would actually be more in line with how it should be portrayed.

 

[HitmonFonty]

I agree the DD quest shouldn't be changed because people cheat on the PvP. That also happens with the 200 wins needed to create a guild and has done for years- and going back to when 100 Rep was needed to trade people would abuse PvP to get Rep. There are enough restrictions on coding in this game without adding extra restrictions to quests because people will cheat to get around them.

My son and daughter both completed the new quest and it was every bit the challenge it should be without being 'impossibly' hard which I think is perfect. The new quest is available after 7 badges in Johto, making it 400 hours minimum gameplay would totally ruin any chance of getting access to Dragon's Den not only pre 8 or 16 badges, but not until a LONG time post endgame. While I believe there should be quests in the long term for long term players- elite quests if you like- I don't believe access to this map should be one of them. As in the handhelds access should be possible for every player, just with a lot more effort than the handhelds required.

I also agree bagon should be removed at least before Hoenn is released so it can be found only in its natural habitat so to speak.

 

[Nikola]

If I recall correctly Trapinch got removed and Bagon took its Place? Correct me if am wrong. Bagon are usually found in mountainous areas. Not even close what Dragons Den is and that is not a small decision to make but I would really like to see at least Bagon being more rare then it is now. Anyway or another, pretty sure those will be changed together with Hoenn. But as I said above, looking forward to any possible changes made. Especially in this case for Bagon.

 

[HitmonFonty]

I'm not sure if trapinch was just a rumour that never happened or if staff just changed their minds about putting it there. But before anyone made it to Dragon's Den Trapinch was supposed to be in there- in the small area farthest from the water. If it was ever there it was removed before the first people completed the quest and gained access.

Bagon was always intended to be there, and did not replace trapinch.

 

[CheckeredZebra]

I'm not sure if trapinch was just a rumour that never happened or if staff just changed their minds about putting it there. But before anyone made it to Dragon's Den Trapinch was supposed to be in there- in the small area farthest from the water. If it was ever there it was removed before the first people completed the quest and gained access.

Bagon was always intended to be there, and did not replace trapinch.

Nay. Bagon replaced Trapinch, as far as I am aware. Or at least, it closely followed after a staff topic by Crenel going "umm guys trapinch lives in a desert, why is it in an underground lake?"

For anyone that complained about the change, we had the "it's worth 15 tokens now instead of 12" counter lined up.