Changing Battle's Scene Suggestions.

[BlackBloodz]

In this topic, I liked to sum up and add a few possible suggestions to improve the current battle scene. I'm fully aware some of the following have been suggested before.

-The implementing of Status Condition Moves ;
How does that work?
a)Paralyze status ;
Adding TM73 Thunder Wave.
Paralyze should lower the Paralyzed pokemon's speed by 25% with having 25% chance also to the pokemon to be fully paralyzed.

b)Burn status ;
Adding TM61 Will-o-Wisp.
Burn should slower the Burnt pokemon's base attack by half. (Halves the base attack of the pokemon)

c)Poison Status ;
Adding TM06 Toxic.
A badly poisoned Pokémon will lose 1/16 of its maximum HP on the first turn, after which damage will increase by 1/16 every time damage is dealt to the badly poisoned Pokémon. (I suggest to make it only badly poison)

d)Freeze Status ;
It isn't implemented yet in PWO. It might be the most annoying status of them all. but, I think it should exist in PWO.
A frozen Pokémon has a 20% chance of being thawed out every turn. On the turn that a Pokémon defrosts, it cannot attack until the next turn.
If the pokemon was hit by a fire move, it will thaw out too.

-There's also the Flinch status, it happens when a faster poke attacks the poke with one of the flinching moves:

Spoiler

Air Slash 30% to flinch
Rock Slide 30% to flinch
Ice Fang 10% to flinch
Zen Headbutt 20% to flinch
Headbutt 30% to flinch
Astonish 30% to flinch
Dark Pulse 20% to flinch
Bite 30% to flinch
Bone Club 10% to flinch
Extrasensory 10% to flinch
Dragon Rush 20% to flinch
Fake Out 100% to flinch (can be only used once the pokemon is brought up + priority move)
Fire Fang 10% to flinch
Heart Stamp 30% to flinch
Hyper Fang 10% to flinch
Icicle Crash 30% to flinch
Iron Head 30% to flinch
Needle Arm 30% to flinch
Sky Attack 30% to flinch
Snore 30% to flinch (only can be used when the pokemon is asleep)
Steamroller 30% to flinch
Stomp 30% to flinch
Thunder Fang 10% to flinch
Twister 20% to flinch
Waterfall 20% to flinch

I would like to note that a pokemon can't have two status conditions at once. Also, if possible .. A pokemon with same type as the status move can't have it, for example Poison pokes can't get poisoned, fire pokes can't get burned ...etc.


How will that help?
To begin with, it shall bring some pokes to the battle scene although it wasn't considered as one.(e.g: Gengar, Duskonir, Charizard, Typhlo, Honchkrow, Porygon2, Togekiss, Ninetales)
It will have an effect on many pokemons, even will help against boosting.
Simply, make some pokes even more effective. (e.g: Dragonite, Jolteon)
And of course, to add the joy and the spirit of an update.

NOTE: Adding TM20 Safeguard might help with that too along with TM12 : Taunt.


-The Implementing of Recovering Moves
Recover, Soft-Boiled, Wish, Synthesis, Drain moves, Aqua ring, Slack Off, Moonlight, Roost, Morning Sun, Milk Drink, Heal Order, Rest.

I think those are easy to know why should be in game.



-The implementing of the TMs
No two persons can argue about how TMs will change the scenes, it actually controls to the number of battlers being used.
In my opinion, the most important thing now is the Physical TMs

I will list all Physical and Special TMs. (Bold=important | normal=non important atm | Italic=already added)
a)Physical TMs :

Spoiler

TM02 : Dragon Claw
TM21 : Frustration
TM23 : Smack Down
TM26 : Earthquake (can be the most important of them all, many pokes learn it, and will help counter Arcanines and Metagross the most viable physical battlers atm, NOTE: Metagross can not learn this move since it might be more powerful with it (debatable)
TM27 : Return
TM28 : Dig
TM31 : Brick Break (In my opinion important as a sub of Superpower)
TM39 : Rock Tomb
TM40 : Aerial Ace
TM42 : Facade (Important if status was added, power doubles if the pokemon is statused)
TM43 : Flame Charge
TM46 : Thief
TM47: Low Sweep
TM54 : False Swipes
TM56 : Fling
TM58 : Sky Drop
TM62 : Acrobatics
TM64 : Explosion
TM65 : Shadow Claw
TM66 : Payback (mostly will help fighting pokemons counter ghosts)
TM67 : Retaliate
TM68 : Giga Impact
TM71 : Stone Edge (second most important TM after EQ)
TM74 : Gyro Ball
TM78 : Bulldoze
TM80 : Rock Slide (A sub of Stone Edge)
TM81 : X Scissor
TM82 : Dragon Tail
TM84 : Poison Jab (just to vary TMs along with X Scissor -not that important)
TM88 : Pluck
TM89 : U-Turn
TM93 : Wild Charge (helps pokes such as Tauros and Rapidash alot to be viable in battle scene)
TM94 : Rock Smash

b)Special TMs :

Spoiler

10 : hidden power (if made to work properly)
03-psyshock
09-venoshock
13-ice beam
14-blizzard
15-hyper beam
22-solarbeam
24-thunderbolt
25-thunder
29-psychic
30-shadow ball
34-sludge wave
35-flamethrower
36-sludge bomb
38-fire blast
48-round
49-echoed voice
50-overheat
52-focus blast
53-energy ball
55-scald
57-charge beam
59-incinerate
72-volt switch
76-struggle bug
79-frost breath
85-dream eater
86-grass knot
91-flash cannon
95-snarl

I would like to NOTE on TM22 Solarbeam, the necessity of removing this TM even if it gets fixed, and be replaced by TM53 (Energy Ball), for the lack of use for Grass type moves in pokemon, and since TM53 can be only learned by only one fire pokemon which is Ninetales.


-There's an issue many people considered it, which is Last Resort power. LR should only work when the pokemon used all his moves. Snorlax is a bit powerfull with such move + STAB, I know there's counters, but it's a bit stupid for a "move" to work this way. I'd suggest nerfing the move power more untill it's fixed.


-The implementing of Tutor Moves :
They're the moves that can be taught by a NPC in exchange of an item ( can be a quest)

The list of all Tutor Moves
http://prntscr.com/2l0yoc & http://prntscr.com/2l0yi3

I will edit with the most important ones in a short time.


NOTE: All of this is regarding gen5

Big thanks for Kaiser6tn for helping me a lot with this topic (khug)

Sorry for the long topic and Thanks for your time, and would like to thank the staff for all their work, I know they're busy, but in time I hope they consider those things.
And please everyone share your thoughts.

 

[magevideogames]

I agree with all of this. Will be glad when the client is updated to support them as well. Here's to future updates that finally enable this.

 

[Shiningamisgirl]

-insert long winded TLDR rant RIGHT HERE. Where I list all the pros and cons of how I do and don't agree with all of this! Though I mostly stand on the side of agreeing, as a more complete battle structure is always the better route to go, in my opinion.-

I honestly do like and agree with all of this. It would be nice to see the moves working, necessary TMs implemented, and all of the rest. BATTLE SYSTEMS GO! Now, it doesn't need to be showdown, or the original, but it could be better. I'm sure we all agree on that. Most of these seem like honestly good ideas on how to make it better. The only question is, how hard is it for staff to implement em? Gosh I would love to see some more physical TMS though! -rolls and paws at-

Man..I need to re-educate myself on coding and battling and..and EVERYTHING! Then! Return and add more! With charts n graphs n stuff even! Still, I love what you wrote Black. Very epic! Mmmm Tutor moves..Yusssss please!

 

[BlackBloodz]

Edit : Added Recovering Moves.

 

[KaiReborn]

Aqua ring has no competitive use whatsoever. Btw you forgot to add Morning Sun, Milk Drink and Heal Order to the recovery move list

 

[BlackBloodz]

Updated: Added Flinch status and a NOTE to TM22 Solarbeam

 

[Tendou]

Status condition TMs are a waaay good to be added now but i would like to see a status condition fixing before adding them as TM, so Thunder Wave wouldnt hit electric pokes and Confuse Ray would hit normal pokes by example

The game can indeed add a new debuff that would be a duplicate of poison with minor fixes to fit with badly poison but it wouldnt increase each per turn yet so we would end with a badly poison debuff to be used in future OR with pokes with Toxic as their moveset.

Freeze debuff cant be handled that well in PWO so the best option would be duplicating paralysis and adding minor changes to such paralysis so Frozen Solid would be another kind of paralysis.

Fling can be handed easily for a first update, it can be another kind of paralysis that will make you lose a turn and will always fade in the next round.

Actually Drain Moves works (such as Mega Drain) but the lifebar dont get a update for the new hp. You can easily check by bringing a pokemon to MT Silver and comparing the damage it deals before Parasect uses Mega Drain and after it uses it.

 

[BlackBloodz]

I do agree with that, but step by step we will get PWO to the best possible situation.

As I heard from Teck, Status conditions are easy to make, but needs time. If we need them to be a lot effective on the battle scene, releasing them as TMs would help, considering the nice amount of pokemons to learn them.

Freeze would cause lots of toubles, regardless it will be hard to make, but it worths to be mentioned.

Now, by recovery moves I mean such as Recover, Synthesis ...etc , Moves such as Giga Drain and Drain Punch goes under that headline, but with less important that others.

 

[Crypsis]

I am finding it very hard to believe that freeze status is not implemented yet. I can't see freeze status being OP in PWO. There is a difference between something being OP, annoying and properly working. Personally I would aim for something that is properly working, don't you think so? As for the Toxic, it is one of the most used, if not the most used status move in a modern Pokemon battle. I see it being under used in PWO due to players mostly, avoiding switching and most of the Pokemon are being KOd or 2 hits KOd. Would apply the same for Recover moves. With the time, people will figure out the power of the Venom.

As for the Snorlax...After reading through forums and PWO wiki, I figured that there would be no Pokemon suffering if Last Resort is due to be removed or it's power set to 10/20. Personally, I see Last Resort as the most broken move in PWO having damage dealing effect. Snorlax has an amazing move pool and yet it can learn many TMs. Some might think that this will make Snorlax useless. Before you bring such conclusion, keep in mind that this Pokemon was always broken and that you are getting an proper update.

I see a lot of things coming to fruition. There is one obstacle, that is preventing several other things to happen and it's name is the client. As I was told, current PWO team is using an old and somehow outdated client compiled by a former DEV. Funny thing is that the client is packed and native code was never given for future updates. From what I've gathered, current team is trying to make things happen adapting to client possibilities. That is the main reason why we are so limited IMO.

 

[HitmonFonty]

How will fixing the freeze effect improve the battle scene?

With ice beam TM out and easily available and so many pokemon able to learn it, won't it just give already good battling pokemon a further edge? I'm not suggesting it will, just asking the question. Will adding freeze effect have a positive or negative effect on the game, or none at all? This is an important consideration at this stage since every fix takes time and the ones that are sure to have a positive effect- or very likely to- should be given the highest priority.

 

[Crypsis]

I can't see any negative impact on the game. Having the freeze effect would give us more possibilities. I can see people adapting while doing some tactic. Most of the current used Pokemon are using Ice beam to 1 hit KO the opposing Pokemon, while they avoiding using the move as a part of their tactic. It's totally understandable because the move itself doesn't have any secondary effects like Discharge has for example. Also, there is a burn effect and it's almost working just fine. Most of the fire moves are able to burn the opponent anyways. Probably Milotic would be one of the few under used Pokemon in PWO that will benefit the most if freeze ever gets implemented because it can be used in many ways. You can attack with it but also you can use it as a defender.

 

[EcoWOLFrb]

Part of the problem with implementing things like freeze is that there's no counter to it currently in PWO. Part of the reason people complain about sleep being cheap or overpowered is a combination of 2 things: No switching enabled, and no counter. Usually there are pokemon who can cure their team of status ailments, much like recover, and protect they are currently not functioning in PWO. Freeze is certainly deadly, and is one of the harder things to get around in Pokemon in general, the thaw rate is rather low iirc. This combined with the amount of pokemon capable of learning ice beam would make freeze happen much more often than other status ailments, so if it is to be implemented, I'd like to see some form of check put in place for it.

The same could be said for things like entry hazards, I wouldn't feel comfortable putting them in place without properly working rapid spin. When implementing updates one should always think about how it will effect the game, if anything else should come before that particular update in order to optimize it, and if it's battle related, what can be done to balance it. Then putting all those together, we can come up with a proper plan instead of whimsical spontaneity. Another example of this is stat boosting moves, they were very OP for a while, then priority moves were implemented so particular pokemon could no longer dominate after a long period of time. If priority moves and stat boosting stages were implemented simultaneously, there would have been less foreseeable issues.

 

[KaiReborn]

Thawing rate may be low but then again so are the odds of an ice move freezing someone.

As for hazards there is one other thing besudes rapid spin that is equally important, phazing.