Broken Moves

[Rainsinch]

As most of you are aware, there was recently a topic posted regarding Staff project priority (See: http://forum.pokemon-world-online.net/showthread.php?tid=34802 ). As you can see, there's quite a bit going on currently. What I'd like to focus on is the battle system for this topic, particularly the moves that need to be fixed, and the priority in which they should be addressed.

This is an opportunity for your voices to be heard on one of the more important aspects of the game. I'm asking you to list the top 5 most important moves you feel should be fixed before any others. For all intents and purposes, assume that there are no restrictions that would disallow a move to be fully functioning. Why do you feel these moves should be placed in line before others? What strategies would this help with? We encourage you to discuss, and express your reasoning behind the list given.

 

[Arnie]

1. Yawn - when a move has to be nerfed just so that an OP poke wouldnt be taught it, thats when u know uve screwed up
2. Acrobatics - should be 110 power not 55
3. Every other broken move ingame
4. Slaking - either add its ability or remove it entirely. i don't even know y there needs to be 22 thousand million discussions about it. the code has been given to u, use it...
5. Fix rest of the game.

 

[KaiReborn]

While the example above would be favored, I don't see it being followed... especially number 4.
I'm also assuming you mean move groups, given how there are quite a couple moves with similar effects. Anyway, here's my take

1. Entry hazards (stealth rock, spikes, toxic spikes)
2. Phazing moves (roar, whirlwind, circle throw, dragon tail)
3. Taunt
4. Hidden Power
5. U-turn and volt switch

Honorable mentions: Heal bell and aromatherapy, Baton Pass

 

[Sabo]

Nice topic Eco. I would suggest doing moves by their number or alphabet ordering. Addressing moves each by each will only bring move confusion and topics. In my opinion there should not be much discussion about fixing moves. That is something you do normally where you don't need any special input from people. But it's always nice to see what people have to say.
https://trello.com/b/hiaeSE2d/pwo-moves This is list from several months ago where people were asked for input. So far is going well. 2 moves in half year one of them being Super Fang which is very viable move against top tier Pokemons. So mhmm...definetly what people should think about is the game in position to give updates. As for moves id like to see: Outrage, Petal Dance and Thrash. It would be cool if someone actually could do those. Well I guess Bluerise will have to be bothered a lot and possibly warm his chair.

 

[pocaliga]

1) Transforms move for ditto, or abilityes Imposter: Transforms upon entering battle.

Because it is a pokemon that can not currently usarno has another movement, almost all pokemon games give posivilidad of use

2) Steal rock, Spikes, Toxis Spikes - to give the game variants

3) Rapid spin, Defog - to eliminate the effect of the above movements

4) Trick Room For five turns, slower Pokémon will act before faster Pokémon. (and add mt trick room)

5) reversal Inflicts more damage when the user has less HP remaining, with a maximum of 200 power. because many users use it attack works and very different

 

[KaiReborn]

Transform can only be a bias request, I'm guessing you must own a s ditto... actually the imposter mention makes that obvious, because there are other abilities that are more of a priority, most famous case being traunt. It is a move that is naturally learned only by ditto and mew. I'd hardly call a move that is learned by only two pokemon (one of them being unobtainable due to its legendary status) a priority. As for defog, considering the only ways to get it would be as an egg move from gen 5 pokemon (which pwo lacks), it is unlikely that it will be fixed anytime soon (not to mention the hazard clearing was a feature only added on gen 6 and pwo uses the 5th gen as its battle system guideline)

 

[CrimsonSapphire]

1st - Field effect ( Rain Dance, Sunny Day, Hail, Sandstorm etc .. )

2nd - Reflect, Light Screen, Safeguard etc .. )

... I dont know how to elaborate but they are very often used for strategy

 

[The-Predator]

Entry hazards and phazing moves, these 2 groups will make switching battles to come in PWO, so i feel like main priority (we would need more TMs,HMs and move tutors to totally implement switching battles but entry hazards and phazing moves would be a good start)

 

[Rainsinch]

Nice topic Eco. I would suggest doing moves by their number or alphabet ordering. Addressing moves each by each will only bring move confusion and topics. In my opinion there should not be much discussion about fixing moves. That is something you do normally where you don't need any special input from people. But it's always nice to see what people have to say.
https://trello.com/b/hiaeSE2d/pwo-moves This is list from several months ago where people were asked for input. So far is going well. 2 moves in half year one of them being Super Fang

Being that we're currently lacking devs, it's important to prioritize move fixes. If we did it alphabetically we'd be creating more of the problems you expressed in the super fang example.

Move suggestions should be in the interest of the general public, fixes like transform would only effect one pokemon and the time could be used more effectively.

Looking forward, fixing every move is obviously the goal, but it would be nice to see some major improvement now instead of waiting till we have better resources as there's no telling when that will be.

 

[HitmonFonty]

I have a question about acrobatics: This only has full power when holding no items. Of course, the pokemon is holding no items here but since no other pokemon would have the advantage of actually holding an item, should we change the default power to maximum?

 

[KaiReborn]

I believe that was something that was suggested before and that was overlooked. Considering the lack of held items, acrobatics' power should be nothing less than the maximum

 

[HitmonFonty]

Let me give an example of where I see the imbalance. Since I like fighting pokemon this stands out quite a lot for me.

We have a scizor using acrobatics on hitmonlee. Scizor gets double the power against the hitmonlee since he isn't holding an item, but the hitmonlee won't get a bonus for holding a black belt or have the opportunity to reduce the damage given with a berry, or a quick claw to hopefully give him first shot with close combat(you get the picture). This seems to me to be a huge imbalance when we're talking about double the power of the move.

 

[Saric]

Let me give an example of where I see the imbalance. Since I like fighting pokemon this stands out quite a lot for me.

We have a scizor using acrobatics on hitmonlee. Scizor gets double the power against the hitmonlee since he isn't holding an item, but the hitmonlee won't get a bonus for holding a black belt or have the opportunity to reduce the damage given with a berry, or a quick claw to hopefully give him first shot with close combat(you get the picture). This seems to me to be a huge imbalance when we're talking about double the power of the move.

You could always average it, like it's typically been done. If averaged, it ends up at around 80.

 

[Sylpharionz]

Move fixing priority:

1) Entry hazards (stealth rock, spikes, etc) & Rapid spin
2) Phazing moves (whirlwind, dragon tail, etc)
3) Switching moves (volt switch, u-turn, etc)
4) Wish and other healing moves (heal bell, aromatherapy, etc)
5) Weather moves (rain dance, sandstorm, etc)
6) Baton pass & taunt
7) Hidden powers
8) Trick
9+) Other broken moves (like acrobatics...)

If you realize, the moves I listed above are those that will give a new dimension to the current battle. With them, gone are the days that we only see the same strat (and poke) over and over again... and would allow switching to be actually viable in game

 

[KaiReborn]

Bias towards a specific type is a poor reason to avoid changing acrobatics' power until held items are implemented. Besides not every pokemon of any type is battle viable (most grass types aren't, same with bug types). And regarding fighting types, most of them already got a boost from egg moves which now allows them to use the elemental punches for example. But then again, one can't expect occasional 'battlers' to see things the same way competitive battlers do. With that being said, I politely ask for the input of staff members who actually hav/had pvp habits on their player accounts.

 

[TheConqueror]

First all, as far I'm concerned about PVP
I'd say

Priorities.

1) Useable Weathers like Drought, Rain, Sandstorm etc, and few abilities like Drizzle, Swift Swim etc.
2) Addittion of Hazards, this would create a new challenge in PVP.
3) As others said, healing moves.
4)Baton Pass and Taunt.
5) Switching XD

I know i've taken some points from others. This is to show that i agree with people. If these moves were fixed. The scope of PVP will change.

Priorities #2.

1)Transform for ditto
2)Adding of new Abilities.
3)Trick
4)Sleep Talk
5)Trick Room
6)ADDITION OF EVS AND ITEMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DMleev]

1) HAZE;
2) Entry hazards as stealth rock, spikes and toxic spikes;
3) Phazing moves as whirlwind, dragon tail, etc;
4) Ligh Screen/Reflect/Trick Room;
5) Heal Bell/ Aromatherapy.

That's all moves I see as priority to our battle system.

 

[Rainsinch]

Bias towards a specific type is a poor reason to avoid changing acrobatics' power until held items are implemented. Besides not every pokemon of any type is battle viable (most grass types aren't, same with bug types). And regarding fighting types, most of them already got a boost from egg moves which now allows them to use the elemental punches for example. But then again, one can't expect occasional 'battlers' to see things the same way competitive battlers do. With that being said, I politely ask for the input of staff members who actually hav/had pvp habits on their player accounts.

I see where fonty is coming from, on the one hand there are no items to hold, so according to the move it would seem fitting that it be placed at full power. However the pokemon that acrobatics is being used against isn't getting the advantage of holding an item, which is why that move is set to 110 power in the first place, to offset this power difference. There's more to this than just "Since we don't have held items it should be at full power". This isn't just going to effect those pokemon who are weak to flying either.

Since you're so inclined towards battling, could you perhaps explain which pokemon would actually sacrifice their held item in order to use a full powered acrobatics in a fully functioning battle system? Then compare it to how many pokemon, in your opinion, would be using the full power move without held items in PWO to their advantage.

Also, I don't personally believe this one move would be such a game changer that it should be ranked in priority with those moves such as hazards, moves like rapid spin or haze, healing, phasing, trick room, baton pass, or taunt. Would you all disagree with that? Why?

 

[HitmonFonty]

Bias towards a specific type is a poor reason to avoid changing acrobatics' power until held items are implemented. Besides not every pokemon of any type is battle viable (most grass types aren't, same with bug types). And regarding fighting types, most of them already got a boost from egg moves which now allows them to use the elemental punches for example. But then again, one can't expect occasional 'battlers' to see things the same way competitive battlers do. With that being said, I politely ask for the input of staff members who actually hav/had pvp habits on their player accounts.

Just because I am not a regular battler it doesn't mean I can't understand your reasoning. However with the priority being permanent fixes not temporary we'd need a good reason to make this temp fix. What would the effect of boosting this move have on the battle scene? Would it just make some good battlers a bit better or could it make previously useless pokemon viable?

 

[KaiReborn]

The power boost would help crobat become relevant again and could perhaps make ambipom a choice to be considered, other than that there isn't really any other pokemon benifitting that much from the power boost, so making it 110 wouldn't exactly be meta breaking.

Answering the point of the fully working battle system, acrobatics tend to be worked in tandem with flying gems, which would be consumed to boost acrobatics the first time it was used. Subsequent times would see acrobatics hit with 110 power.