Acrobatics

[Animagus]

The staff of the Pokemon World needs your help!
Recently, a problem with the flying-type move Acrobatics was brought to our notice.
As of now, it is set at 55 base power. But in reality, it is supposed to have 55 Power only when the pokemon executing this move has a held item, and 110 power if the pokemon does not have any items.
Sadly, held items are something that are not yet implemented in PWO. While we work with the best of our abilities to bring this feature to you, we would like to know how you would like to have the pokemon move at hand- Acrobatics, implemented in PWO in the meantime.

The poll above provides you with the possible solutions for the problem we have here. Please select the one you deem most appropriate.

If you select the third option i.e. "Power Averaged", it would be highly valued if you could reply to this thread with the attack value you have in mind.

As always, feedback is very much appreciated. If you have any other ideas or similar moves that you think need to be brought to light, feel free to leave a reply down below.

 

[craveiro-3]

100 in my opinion

 

[Saurus]

If a move is OP, then bring its power down to a 'point' where it's reasonable and sensible in terms of using it in a battle. Though, acrobatics is debatable. But i wouldn't mind if it were made to have 110 power for example but then its usage should be capped to have a 90-95% accuracy rate to ensure it doesn't always land a hit.

Any which way this goes is okay for me.

 

[Arnie]

this is really not something that needs a discussion. if its supposed to be 110 power with no held item present, y cant it just be changed to 110 power and that be the end of it. instead of all this nerfing that seems to have become a PWO trademark

 

[Nikola]

Appreciate your will to get input from people but topic itself is rather useless. Those things are not to be discussed. As for the person who brought you that up, give them some gasoline and tell them to set themselves on fire.

 

[Electrofreak]

Crobat is the only one to stand to benefit from acrobatics. It does not see much play but would be useful. Primeape would get an honorable mention here, but it would still not be that great to make it a powerhouse.

Gliscor won't even use acrobatics because it would lose 4x from tfang on gyara, or 4x from ice fang on dragons. It cannot drop earthquake because then it gets walled by Ttar, and loses the ability to OHKO jolteon.

I see no issue in putting power to 110, for these reasons. It might actually give a little versatility in seeing primeape and crobat again.


Edit: Not to mention we also dont see many grass, fighting, or bug types in the current metagame.

 

[HOF69]

Appreciate your will to get input from people but topic itself is rather useless. Those things are not to be discussed. As for the person who brought you that up, give them some gasoline and tell them to set themselves on fire.

Wow, overreaction much? Seriously, what's with the personal insults being thrown around these days? I thought better of you Darcia, but only a lowlife would make that kind of remark.

Back on topic, as has already been pointed out, very few viable battlers learn Acrobatics naturally in PWO. A few more would get it via TM, but it's just not a very ideal move to run on most things that can learn it. Therefore, I see no problem with letting it be 110 power.

 

[Electrofreak]

Not many learn it via TM either.

Level up pokes:
crobat
farfetch'd
jumpluff
gliscor

TM:
butterfree
beedrill
crobat
primeape
farfetch'd
venomoth
ledian
scizor
ambipom
mantine
sceptile
blaziken
beautifuly
dustox
volbeat
illumise
lunatone
solrock
ambipom


The only pokemon to truly benefit would be:
Crobat
Blaziken
Scizor (only slightly)
Ambipom
Primeape
Jumpluff

Out of the beneficial pokemon, scizor is closest thing to OU in the bunch, and he wouldnt benefit all that much since he is slow anyway.

Crobat would literally be the single best improvement in tier status, of all pokemon involved. I would not mind seeing crobat again to some extent, especially with haze at his disposal given the boosting metagame we have.

Acrobatics at 110 would be an overall healthy choice. If anyone has a reasonable objection to the above, feel free to post it.


Source:
http://www.serebii.net/attackdex-bw/acrobatics.shtml

 

[Nikola]

Not the problem about move being 110. Problem is about going back on same move again once held items are in. PWO is training such policy for a while. Poor creativity and decision making. Like I said, move can be Spacial Rend i don't care. It's about system going in proper direction. It's like making your own grave after being magically cured from cancer. And it's not about being OP or not, again, it's about aiming to have something proper. It's not necessary to talk about this before held items are introduced. Held items are one hour code, no more. Pretty much changing their scope and tell every item (that is supposed to be held by a Pokemon) what to do. One hour code that is. Less time then time given into researching Acrobatics around Xats and getting a CG to look for input from input from you people. Pretty much sure that Animagus never posted something like this on his own. Post would be about something more proper and more awesome because kids trying hard. I wouldn't mind if topic was about introducing held items. You have few DEVs and 2 admins doing DEVs work. Pretty much enough to make held items. And only one of them is enough, let alone 5. Once again, this topic is not necessary.

 

[Animagus]

Thank you for the suggestions, everybody. They've all been taken into account and the staff will soon decide what they would like to do with Acrobatics - we do realize that there is no point in beating around the bush for every single move.

And coming to that. We understand that sometimes some topics might seem less-useful, considering that there is a lot more that needs to be worked upon in the game. Even I questioned the necessity of this topic. But at this point, we would rather have the input of every player possible for every little update than do something without the involvement of the community which we later regret. We cannot make changes, some would say, under the influence of just a few individuals; be it for petty things. [As you can see from the current poll standings, people do want a change in the move power, but there are mixed opinions between 110 damage and average damage. That was onixpected.]

That being said, the post was also made for another reason.
Our ultimate goal is, of course, to make every move work just the way it should. I perceive that this is a very basic part of any Pokemon MMO and you'd expect it as soon as possible. But as you know, great things take time. While I can assure you that that is in the works, i would like to know about any other move that you think requires immediate attention - that you think can be brought to balance with the current limitations of the client. We can also start discussing that move right here =)

As for the held items - Like i said, it will be brought to you as and when possible. We find no fun in hampering such essential updates from the players. Although I failed to find a definitive answer from my fellow staff yesterday as to why held items are on a hold, I will try to best to bring that answer to you while our coders try their best to just bring an end to the wait.

 

[Saurus]

Acrobatics is not just for Gliscor primarily. If that were the case each pokemon would have individual moves that only they could use. Since it's a part flying type, i'm sure there are other pokemon who can benefit from it.

 

[Electrofreak]

Acrobatics is not just for Gliscor primarily. If that were the case each pokemon would have individual moves that only they could use. Since it's a part flying type, i'm sure there are other pokemon who can benefit from it.

No one contended that gliscor was the only pokemon to benefit from it. in fact, it was argued that gliscor would not benefit from it at all since it would lose much needed coverage. o.0

 

[Saurus]

Crobat is the only one to stand to benefit from acrobatics.

Anyway, I gave my opinion. The point i'm trying to make was relevant to the topic of this thread. Any move that gives the slightest OP advantage in battle should be capped via bringing its accuracy down, so that it doesn't always land a hit.

There is one other thing that I wanted to bring up, and those were PP (Power Points). Example Flamethrower PP (10/15). I hope PWO will move towards that in the future. You can see in battles how certain moves are over-used to win battles because they are unlimited and can be used over and over again.

 

[Electrofreak]

Crobat is the only one to stand to benefit from acrobatics.

Any move that gives the slightest OP advantage in battle

How does acrobatics do this exactly? You never argued with any examples how this would be the case at all. I mean no offense but if you are going to assert it will give something an "OP advantage" please state why, because otherwise we have no reason to accept it as true.

I have stated why it would NOT be a problem above. If you have input as to why that would be incorrect, please explain.

 

[Saurus]

I need to argue my opinions with examples because? If i felt I had to, I would have. I'm sure you understood perfectly what I meant. End of story.

 

[Electrofreak]

I need to argue my opinions with examples because? If i felt I had to, I would have. I'm sure you understood perfectly what I meant. End of story.

You dont HAVE to, unless you want your opinion taken seriously by anyone besides yourself. That is why discussion was brought up in the first place. We are discussing the reasoning behind where it should be in terms of base power. If you have no reasoning, then you are simply just saying what you think, with no reason to convince anyone else it should be taken as a serious consideration.

When you were arguing about an "OP advantage" gained from acrobatics you were making a truth claim. It went beyond your own opinion when you stated as something TRUE, not just how you felt on the matter. Truth claims can and should be backed up with evidence because if truth claims are indeed true, then they are objectively true regardless of any opinion on the matter. Truth has a higher ontological status than opinion.

Nothing is wrong with what you are doing, just don't expect anyone who doesn't already agree with you to change their mind.

Just as a heads up, I do not mean any offense by any of this, and will not be responding further unless my previous question about reasoning is replied to. Have a nice day.




Side note: Ancient power has the same boosting effect as ominous wind, but ominous wind does not function properly and boost. Ominous wind should be fixed so that it has the same effect as it should have.

 

[Pretentious]

The question that everyone should consider when looking at any move for potential buffs/nerfs is "what is the intent of this move?"

In the hand-helds, acrobatics is designed to be an extremely powerful move for any Pokémon that is willing to forego the benefits of a hold item. Since there currently aren't held items in PWO, Acrobatics should work as it is designed to work. In all of the examples listed, even with a fully functioning battle system, the Pokémon which benefit from this move probably wouldn't have it in their moveset anyways. By maintaining the intent of the move, you'd be making the most consistent decision.

Of course, whenever held items are introduced you'll still need to develop the code for this move to work, and then you'd probably need to have this discussion again until it was working properly

 

[KaiReborn]

The question that everyone should consider when looking at any move for potential buffs/nerfs is "what is the intent of this move?"

In the hand-helds, acrobatics is designed to be an extremely powerful move for any Pokémon that is willing to forego the benefits of a hold item. In all of the examples listed, even with a fully functioning battle system, the Pokémon which benefit from this move probably wouldn't have it in their moveset anyways. By maintaining the intent of the move, you'd be making the most consistent decision.

Of course, whenever held items are introduced you'll still need to develop the code for this move to work, and then you'd probably need to have this discussion again until it was working properly

Acrobatics is usually used in a tandem with flying gem, so it still sees a boost in power on the first time it is used (even though it doesn't hit for 110 power, cba to check how much of a boost a flying gem gives). With that said, it should be easy to see which path should be taken regarding the move's mechanics on an itemless metagame. It is a fix that wouldn't be gamebreaking in the sense of creating unbalance.

I don't mean to disrespect but you don't seem like the kind of player who has much knowledge/experience on what concerns the competitive scene, so maybe taking the backseat on this topic wouldn't be a bad idea. A 'people pleasing stance' won't really help much in discussing this subject. Constantly pushing things back will only lead to nothing being done and while staff may or may not be bound by other tasks currently that prevents them from focusing on the battle scene as much as a portion of the players would like, if there are changes that would benefit the battle system (such as this one) that could be less of an if and more of a when, then i'm all for it (and judging by the poll, so are most players who gave this topic a look)

 

[HOF69]

I'm seeing several people stating that making Acrobatics 110 power would make the move OP, even though the Pokemon that can learn it naturally in PWO have no more than 95 base attack. I find this hilarious because no one has mentioned how utterly OP Honchkrow's 140 power Sky Attack (also a physical Flying type attack) is right now since its charging turn isn't working. Oh, and Honchkrow has an impressive 125 base attack. I'm sorry, but if anyone here thinks that Crobat or Gliscor with 110 power Acrobatics would be OP in PWO's battle system, then you aren't very familiar with the PWO metagame.

 

[Pretentious]

With that said, it should be easy to see which path should be taken regarding the move's mechanics on an itemless metagame. It is a fix that wouldn't be gamebreaking in the sense of creating unbalance.

I don't mean to disrespect but you don't seem like the kind of player who has much knowledge/experience on what concerns the competitive scene, so maybe taking the backseat on this topic wouldn't be a bad idea. A 'people pleasing stance' won't really help much in discussing this subject. Constantly pushing things back will only lead to nothing being done and while staff may or may not be bound by other tasks currently that prevents them from focusing on the battle scene as much as a portion of the players would like, if there are changes that would benefit the battle system (such as this one) that could be less of an if and more of a when, then i'm all for it (and judging by the poll, so are most players who gave this topic a look)

I don't think you understood what I wrote.

To break it down in an easier to grasp form:
The intent of the move is to be 110 without a held item.
There aren't held items in PWO.
Acrobatics should be 110 power.

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear; I was writing from my phone.

Unless I'm misunderstanding you (because the overwhelming response to this poll has been in favor of a change to 110), then I think you should refrain from trying to attack me personally for no reason. :*


EDIT:
You're right. I'm not a competitive battler, but that isn't required to have opinions which make sense.

Since I'm not a battler, please explain how your example works, or why you would use it.

If you're using a Flying gem, "A Gem is consumed when the Pokémon holding it uses a damaging attack that matches the Gem's type, and the attack's power is boosted by 30% (50% prior to Generation VI)", then Acrobatics becomes 55+16.5=71.5 or 55+27.5=102.5. Or is there some other calculation?