Account reset?

Nikola

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-We are only looking for bugs in this phase. More simple, we applied for beta testing. Its free and everyone can download it and play it. Developers usually focus on enhancing the game by adding new features during BETA rather than fixing bugs. In PWO they are doing both things Id say. There will be always something to fix/update no matter what phase it is. There are several BETA stages such as closed and open BETA and yet they are having sub-stages. It's almost impossible to discover every bug in one stage. It's developers choice if they want to wipe your account stats or even yours Pokemon and items if it comes to that. Doing that there will be more place to "breath" though.

-Most likely PWO will newer reach the final stage used for "Commercial Release" where there are no testings stages anymore, only expanding the game’s features and content instead of hunting for bugs to fix. But well...who knows, maybe Nintendo give us the green light to make it commercial or not? :)
 

Thychiz

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Are playerdex update and client update different things, to be released at the same time? Or will they be quite far apart. Also is there any rough estimate on when this new client will actually hit? 6 months? a year? etc.. Nothing too specific so people don't rage if the "deadline" isn't met... I'm just a little curious now is all ^_^
 

CheckeredZebra

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2) if the game wouldn't be in beta for several years. During this time many players spent more than one thousand hours with this game! They literally spent months (day and night) with leveling, hunting, trading. GhostofSanity spent the half of his PWO career in the Powerplant to get a S Pikachu.

You act like staff haven't put in just as much or more time playing PWO than the average player. We would be subject to the same reset just as much as everyone else.
 

Merse

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I didn't say it wouldn't influence the staff (not included your staff acc of course :D ), it was a general statement. People simply spent too much time with this game and I can't imagine that they would continue playing if they would have to start from the very beginning again.
 

Algiers

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Merse said:
I didn't say it wouldn't influence the staff (not included your staff acc of course :D ), it was a general statement. People simply spent too much time with this game and I can't imagine that they would continue playing if they would have to start from the very beginning again.

Introduce them to the concept of sunk costs then. It's a non-issue anyways, the old accounts are only getting locked into a server not being upgraded, not entirely wiped. However, if people play a beta, this should be aware of the risk of having their work gone when the game gets out of beta.
 

roysten

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Boora said:
...if the "Alpha" version cant support the old database ... if they cant move the database to the "alpha" server when ever its ready ...
Just so ya know, "Alpha" comes before "Beta". The next stage would be either a Closed Beta or a Release Candidate. (I can't imagine there will be a closed beta for this game, I'm just sayin' in general.)
- Pre-Alpha
- Alpha
- Beta
- Release Candidate (RC)
- Full Release
 

BlackSeven

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roysten said:
Just so ya know, "Alpha" comes before "Beta". The next stage would be either a Closed Beta or a Release Candidate. (I can't imagine there will be a closed beta for this game, I'm just sayin' in general.)

The game was in closed Beta for most of its lifetime actually, it just recently became open within the past year or so. So I suppose they worked in reverse, though not sure if there's any advantages or not to following such "formalities", i.e. Beta then Closed Beta.
 

Naero

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BlackSeven said:
roysten said:
Just so ya know, "Alpha" comes before "Beta". The next stage would be either a Closed Beta or a Release Candidate. (I can't imagine there will be a closed beta for this game, I'm just sayin' in general.)

The game was in closed Beta for most of its lifetime actually, it just recently became open within the past year or so. So I suppose they worked in reverse, though not sure if there's any advantages or not to following such "formalities", i.e. Beta then Closed Beta.

PWO was actually publicized shortly after it was conceptualized in 2007, after very rudimentary developmental progress has been made to the game. It was released to the public as early as December 27th, 2007, as far as I know.
 

BlackSeven

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Naero said:
BlackSeven said:
roysten said:
Just so ya know, "Alpha" comes before "Beta". The next stage would be either a Closed Beta or a Release Candidate. (I can't imagine there will be a closed beta for this game, I'm just sayin' in general.)

The game was in closed Beta for most of its lifetime actually, it just recently became open within the past year or so. So I suppose they worked in reverse, though not sure if there's any advantages or not to following such "formalities", i.e. Beta then Closed Beta.

PWO was actually publicized shortly after it was conceptualized in 2007, after very rudimentary developmental progress has been made to the game. It was released to the public as early as December 27th, 2007, as far as I know.

Well not completely closed but I remember they would used to turn off the registration periods so no one could sign up, that's what I meant :p
 

Merse

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There is no real difference between open and closed Beta in game development terms. There are several examples that a development cycle went from one to another. They start with only a few beta testers, then open the testing to the public, or they test the general engine and mechanics with the public then go to closed Beta to finalize the product, so the public won't know about the storyline6special units/new inventions/etc.
But there is no precedent about a game being in beta for 5 years, so I think we should just leave this whole concept behind. This is a game, a more or less finished game, which many people spent many hours and/or much-much money on. Calling it a beta is only an excuse for its obvious shortcomings (which will be fixed of course).
 

Hydrahax

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My opinion about that: People who defend WIPE just started now, they don't know HOW MANY MONEY people spend and how many time wasted trying to improve it. Weak people tend to want the wipe, so they can be equal. Wipe would just be acceptable if the staff REFUNDS who wasted money if some type of plan (who would take A LOT of work).
Then i think the should carry the baggage to the new server, and not letting the OLD ONE server for the players who wasted tons of hours and money on the game. It's like: They helped us, now we let for them a old no-update server and creat a new one. Doesn't make sense.
 

Pastor-Of-Muppets

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Hydrahax said:
My opinion about that: People who defend WIPE just started now, they don't know HOW MANY MONEY people spend and how many time wasted trying to improve it. Weak people tend to want the wipe, so they can be equal. Wipe would just be acceptable if the staff REFUNDS who wasted money if some type of plan (who would take A LOT of work).
Then i think the should carry the baggage to the new server, and not letting the OLD ONE server for the players who wasted tons of hours and money on the game. It's like: They helped us, now we let for them a old no-update server and creat a new one. Doesn't make sense.
I support a wipe of sorts and I have spent quite a lot on tokens. You also have quite a few points wrong. You seem to imply that you spent money on this game which you did not. You donated to this game. Those tokens are a thank you for your donation, people always seem to forget this. Im not going to go into the whole "after a beta there is usually a reset" portion because its been covered immensely. You are broadly generalizing.
 

Merse

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let's just not start a brainstorming about how much donation the game gets monthly and how much the server upkeep costs and what happens to the rest of the donations.
Bot whatever we call it, people in 99% send money to PWO because they get tokens for it which they can exchange for goods ingame. Although it is called donation, it is simply because of some legal issues, but we all know very well that it is de facto token purchase. I have serious doubt about how much "donation" PWO would get if you wouldn't get tokens in exchange. And that's exactly why a total reset without some serious compensation towards veterans and serious "supporters" would be simply unacceptable.
People spent too much money on this game to purchase ingame advantages - and their motive was not charity, it was purchase - and I can't completely rule out the possibility of someone even gains personal earnings form the "donations" to PWO either (because of the magnitude of tokens purchased on a daily basis).
Not to mention how disappointing it would be for vets to lose everything. I for one spent almost 1000 hours on PWO already, and I'm sure I wouldn't start it from scratch, starting with a mediocre starter, grinding hours for XP, hunting hundreds of hours for an acceptable HR etc.

If PWO would have been reseted on a monthly or daily basis, then it would be understandable to reset again, or to start a brand new server once the game is "done". But simply throwing away 2-3-4-5 years of work of some players for no apparent acceptable reason is just stupid. Seriously, I didn't read any good reasons so far which would actually support a reset or leaving the "old" server slowly die out. Except that someone in the staff once said that it should be done becauseit seems like a fun idea.
 

OGPokemaster

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IMO a reset is completely reasonable, and if people just quit because of a reset then to bad for them, this is not burger king where everything is your way, resets happen all the time in other mmos; futhermore if you'd quit just cause they do a reset they u arent a true PWO fan, having a server strictly dedicated to people who want to keep playing in there old accounts is the best your going to get (and tbh i dont really think they should have one, it would be a waste of resources you can put in to the new server). i know im not the only person who feels that a reset would give ALL players a real chance to catch up to all the super rich Vets that have amazing shinys and what not, and from what i saw browsing thru this thread vets are the majority of people who are against a reset.
 

BlackSeven

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I think an interesting experiment would be to make two servers, one with the old "veteran" players and one with the clean slate, and keep them both open for registration. After a while, I wonder which more players would play in. If more players/the community choose the clean slate, would the other one be kept open just to please the few, and I would wonder if the older veteran server would give off a fair share of donations compared to the newer one to keep the servers running. Don't really have any opinion on this in particular tbh, new and old players will come and go.
 

Maideza

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If people leave, because they don't get their token-Pokémon with them to a new server - they clearly don't know what donating means.

It's irrelevant if they donated because they wanted to help, or they wanted to spend "thousands of dollars" to get a Pokémon. A donation is a donation - even if you in your head say "this is a purchase."

How hard can it be to understand.
 

Merse

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Well, from the vets point of view (and I'm obviously not one of them): "The envious newcomers are just jealous because during 3-4-5 years we got some very valuable Pokemon, but they are too lazy to work and hunt for them, so instead of earning their own Pokemon, they want us to lose ours."
This attitude of "make a reset so vets may lose all their progress so we could catch up with them" is extremely similar to the philosophy of communism: Instead of making it possible for everyone to become rich, make everyone evenly poor.
Seriously, why does it hurt you that someone have better Pokes than you? It's not like there would be only a limited number of S HRs available, you'll get one sooner or later as well. I can not understand how could anyone be so malevolent and ill-disposed that instead of working hard to get something he wants to ruin everything what others have been working for.
Of course I'm jealous too when Dovee, Manueloz, JD and the other veterans are making a parade with their fancy HRs or when they beat the crap out of me with their superior team, but that doesn't mean I want to take their Pokemon they worked so hard for! It just inspires me to train more, hunt more, trade more and once get better Pokes than they have. And why couldn't I achieve that goal? Maybe the next Pokemon I'll find is a S Lapras, or a S Dratini. Or maybe I'll just cleverly invest my money and I'll get some super Pokemon later.
The possibility is there for everyone. But only because you don't want or couldn't take it yet, you shouldn't demand the destruction of others' hard work.

Maideza said:
If people leave, because they don't get their token-Pokémon with them to a new server - they clearly don't know what donating means.

It's irrelevant if they donated because they wanted to help, or they wanted to spend "thousands of dollars" to get a Pokémon. A donation is a donation - even if you in your head say "this is a purchase."

How hard can it be to understand.
Ah, the finest example of hypocrisy. You know as well as anyone else that it is called "donation" only for one single reason: To be able to get money from the players keeping the pretense of being a nonprofit organization. If it would be a donation then there wouldn't be a "Token Issues" thread on the forum, where "donators" can demand the tokens they paid for.
And if you would have read my post carefully, I wasn't talking only about token Pokemon.
 

Jinji

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Tokens are a gift offered by us in recognition of the value of each person's donation. Should we choose to suspend giving out Tokens for any reason, or refuse to gift tokens for a particular transaction, this is perfectly within our rights as the receipt of the Tokens was never a contractual obligation.

To date, it has been our choice to grant tokens automatically for all donations as we feel it is fairest for everyone's donations to be valued in the same way. The existence of the Token Issues section is reasoned to allow us to commit to this voluntary pledge and ensure that when the automated gifting of tokens fails, the user is still fairly treated. This does not constitute a legal obligation; and your argument that the existence of the thread is evidence of a guarantee for the Tokens, while credible, would not stand in law.

As an aside, there have been periods in the early part of PWO's history where, despite utilising a similar system to donate as the modern system used today, Tokens were not part of the offering. The offering of Tokens was a later development and was never a mandatory process in the donation system. In addition, the donations do not constitute the only method by which Tokens may be acquired.
 

CheckeredZebra

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*Thinks for a minute*

[Merse's Post Here]

Who says this has anything to do with jealousy? Or ill intentions, or taking people's stuff away just because they are rich? You've put reasons for the decision that don't exist, no offense. In fact, the concept had nothing to do with newer players/vets and more with the overall health of the game.

With that in mind, if you don't come into PWO with the mindset of a being a donator and beta tester, of course you're going to get burned. This game isn't here to give anything aside from entertainment. We are here to build a project, and the players are part of that building process. They are a sort of extension of our team by being a large feedback resource and by helping us keep PWO running through donations.

We are not here to build pockets. And my apologies if saying what I have as a staff was rude, because that was not my intention. But this is, in my opinion, the most healthy and progressive way to view PWO in its current state. It's how it is meant to be taken, no matter how many people refuse to see it that way.
 

Merse

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There is a saying. If something looks like a duck, acts like a duck and sounds like a duck, it is a duck.

Now on tokens:
1)Does it look like a purchase?
Yes, because you always get tokens in exchange. There is no precedent that tokens were promised and later refused in exchange for real money. So let's not go theoretical what could be done, because it never was done.
2) Does it acts like a purchase?
Yes, because you get something in return which gives you advantage over the other players in the game. Just as any MMO with microtransaction works.
3) Does it "sounds" like a purchase (in this case: what is the main motivation of the "donator")?
Yes, because 99% of the players send the money so they can get tokens for it.
4) Does it look like a donation?
No, because it expressly says that you will get tokens for every USD you send.
5) Does it acts like a donation?
No, because you get something which gives you an advantage in the game.
6) Does it "sounds" like a donation?
No, not at all, because the main motivation is not charity but getting something in return.

Let me say, I have no issue with calling it donation. It is necessary so this project can live on, otherwise the authorities would shut PWO down in no time. But please, at least among us let's not be pharisaicals and hypocrites and let's admit it: the whole token system is nothing else than microtransaction and the devs have no other choice but keeping it that way, otherwise. Why do we have to do the whole farce and galanty show and act like it would be anything else but what it is? PURCHASE. Which is enforced even more by the fact, that there is no bookkeeping about the incomes. If it truly would be a donation, there should be a "donation meter" or something which indicates how much money the game needs to remain up and running in every month or year. But here players donate hundreds of dollars on a daily basis, and we don't know what happens to that money, but most likely there is always a surplus compared to the monthly cost of the server. What happens to that money? Nobody knows but Xan who is almost never around... Well... Let me not say anything more about this one right now.
If the devs would ever chose not to distribute tokens for real money any more, it truly would be donation, but I don't think it would happen in the near future.

Jinji said:
Should we choose to suspend giving out Tokens for any reason, or refuse to gift tokens for a particular transaction, this is perfectly within our rights as the receipt of the Tokens was never a contractual obligation.
Thanks, I think I understood the threat. Of course, it wasn't a threat 8)

CheckeredZebra said:
Zebby you still didn't give any good reason why would you play with peoples' money, time, and effort spent on this game. Those newcomers who always demand a reset are almost always try to support their case with the argument that they can't compete with the veterans who have this and that insanely valuable Pokes and how unfair it is. I think it's nothing else but jealousy. They know the way to get money and Pokemon, so why don't they do that? Why do they want to ruin others' hard work instead?
And I never ever said that any member of the current staff would be in this project for the money. Not that I know of at least.

For the record: I am NOT a veteran with many very valuable Pokemon (not with market value anyway, but with sentimental value - to me :p ), nor a massive donator who spends regularly serious money on PWO.
 
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