Stat Changing Moves

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You also have to remember that, unlike the handhelds... stat-boosting attack moves raise the stat every time in PWO instead of randomly. This is probably what is causing some of the huge PvP imbalances. (In other words, instead of Meteor Mash raising Meta's attack once in a while, it's doing it every single time.)
Staff might want to look at "randomizing" the stat boost changes next.

However, due to the PvP battle system in place, some pokemon like Skarmory DEPEND on stat boosts to be PvP viable. This update is a double edged sword.
 

king1234

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Cool change, this kinda makes stat increase and decrease better to understand.
;)
 

Tecknician

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Similar said:
You also have to remember that, unlike the handhelds... stat-boosting attack moves raise the stat every time in PWO instead of randomly. This is probably what is causing some of the huge PvP imbalances. (In other words, instead of Meteor Mash raising Meta's attack once in a while, it's doing it every single time.)
Staff might want to look at "randomizing" the stat boost changes next.

However, due to the PvP battle system in place, some pokemon like Skarmory DEPEND on stat boosts to be PvP viable. This update is a double edged sword.
Some odd reason I thought this was already in game. This could easily be added.
 

pokearcanine

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are reflect and light screen fixed also?any plans to these 2 moves and self-healing moves?
 

Dr.brock

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I highly appreciate this update :)
Because, this can somehow, remove usage of those OP and p-legendaries pokes such as Slakings etc.
Pokes like Scizor,Cloyster etc now also can be used in battle, with better strategies.

And for those who oppose this update : You should also adapt to these changes, and find New Strategies. Don't think that, the poke on which you spent millions is now a waste, so just oppose this update, to get ur OP back. :)

But yeah, there should be a limit. Like in handheld games, After changing stat by 6 stages, you can't change any more, so it should be here also.
And one more thing, Increasing Stat works at a constant rate, while decreasing Stat deccelerates, to very small limiting value, So i think similarly, Increasing stat should also get a limiting value on increasing and it should also deccelerate. Which would help in not increasing a lot of Stat. And then there won't be any need of adding stop changing stats after 6 stages, as then after 3-4 uses, Stat would increase by only 5-2, which doesn't matter.
:)
 

EcoWOLFrb

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the problem isn't that pseudo legendary pokemon are no longer OP, it's that they ARE. Meta Sala Drago are all possible monsters, each fully capable of killing an entire team under the right circumstances. None of the pokemon that people spend millions on are worthless now... besides maybe flygon. They're all still good for the most part, it's just that if luck occurs and you have a counter to a pokemon, you can make your pokemon a god with agility and atk boosting moves. In a balanced game there are counters to everything, and if a metagross can kill an arcanine, and a Dragonite can kill a lapras in one hit ... there's a problem.
 

Tecknician

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From the looks of it, the underlying problem with this update that makes things imbalance is indeed that the stat changing moves will always take affect. Meteor mash for example should only have a 20 percent chance of raising the users attack but currently does every single time. This will be one of the first things I address and should be a simple fix.

Edit: Looking further attacks that lowers or raises the OPPONENTS stat does have this chance variable. For example mist ball who does 70 power does indeed only have a 50% chance of lowering the opponents special def.
 

BruNo1989

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Tecknician said:
From the looks of it, the underlying problem with this update that makes things imbalance is indeed that the stat changing moves will always take affect. Meteor mash for example should only have a 20 percent chance of raising the users attack but currently does every single time. This will be one of the first things I address and should be a simple fix.

Edit: Looking further attacks that lowers or raises the OPPONENTS stat does have this chance variable. For example mist ball who does 70 power does indeed only have a 50% chance of lowering the opponents special def.

http://veekun.com/dex/moves/search?...p=&stat_change_defense=&stat_change_accuracy=
 

EcoWOLFrb

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Tecknician said:
From the looks of it, the underlying problem with this update that makes things imbalance is indeed that the stat changing moves will always take affect.

Well not entirely, there are still problems with the amount of which the stat is increased. Sure, the chances might be lower, but the pokemon could still get lucky and do some serious damage. Not only that but non-attacking moves are still incredible, causing dragonite, metagross, and a plethora of others to gain huge advantages if they're matched against the right pokemon (like Dragonite and Swampert or arcanine). One agility and 2 Dragon Dances can render an entire team helpless, causing smart trainers to include take down on those two to commit hara-kiri with the broken move instead (which should not need to be a factor in PWO). I don't want to go into great lengths but another example is a steelix using harden and autotomize against a normal pokemon, and going on to kill your opponents fire counter ... it just shouldn't happen.

On another note I applaud how swiftly you handled damage dealing moves with stat bonuses, thanks for the efficiency in swiftly handling that aspect. I look forward to seeing how the this other major issue is handled. :)
 

Tecknician

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EcoWOLFrb said:
Tecknician said:
From the looks of it, the underlying problem with this update that makes things imbalance is indeed that the stat changing moves will always take affect.

Well not entirely, there are still problems with the amount of which the stat is increased. Sure, the chances might be lower, but the pokemon could still get lucky and do some serious damage. Not only that but non-attacking moves are still incredible, causing dragonite, metagross, and a plethora of others to gain huge advantages if they're matched against the right pokemon (like Dragonite and Swampert or arcanine). One agility and 2 Dragon Dances can render an entire team helpless, causing smart trainers to include take down on those two to commit hara-kiri with the broken move instead (which should not need to be a factor in PWO). I don't want to go into great lengths but another example is a steelix using harden and autotomize against a normal pokemon, and going on to kill your opponents fire counter ... it just shouldn't happen.

On another note I applaud how swiftly you handled damage dealing moves with stat bonuses, thanks for the efficiency in swiftly handling that aspect. I look forward to seeing how the this other major issue is handled. :)
I am currently talking to Bis_Eastwood about this and he at first thought it wasn't having as big of an effect as it should. After a lot of calculations and discussing we decided it is acting a little bit off but actually having less of an impact as it should. So if anything the opposite of what you are trying to say is true.

For damage calculator: http://www.psypokes.com/dex/damage.php

Feel free to run your own tests.
 

EcoWOLFrb

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If that's the case then I'd hate to imagine the impact of the actual effects. Perhaps a better representation of the positive, or negative aspects of the current... and apparently less than accurate battle system would be player feedback in place of authenticity, as multiple things have already changed for better game play purposes in regard to the latter.
 

Tecknician

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The issue I think most players have, is after all this time of having to worry about ivs, and differences of 10 or less, a difference of 100 or more seems like a lot. However too much value was placed on ivs. If a pokemon with 19 iv in attack does 49.1 damage to an opponenet the same pokemon doing the same attack to the same opponenet but with 29 iv, may only do 49.9 damage. However in pwo, we don't deal with decimal damage, so both attacks would result in: 49 points of damage.

There are other things in the damage calculation forum that makes an increase of an attack of 200 go to 600 minimal to the point it may only have an extra... 20 points of damage. (4 stages)

Is it worth not attacking 4 turns to get 20 extra damage per attack? Probably not. However there may be times when an extra 5 points may actually make a difference...
 

BRGodEastwood

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i ran extensive tests yesterday, with my steelix vs kidmans jolteon, while i was using harden each turn. at first it seemed to me that this system was broken, and that jolteon shouldnt be doing much damage to a 800 defense steelix. it turns out i had forgotten to take into account steelix has low hp, and that the system is very very accurate.

the formula it turns out is almost an exact replicate of serebiis. so this update is working proper, except a minor offset when using a stab move.
 

Chocobo7

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It seems to me that this might be a lot of players first time seeing these sort of numbers on paper rather than just the effects in game and that is shifting their opinions in one direaction as they seem larger than they should. Like all large changes in games all over the internet, I highly suggest active testing of how the new system works before claiming it is broken, as only with plenty of evidence can it be decided either way. Remember, different does not always mean bad but a rushed decision will be.
 

pokearcanine

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Moves that should raise stats by 2 levels are raising only 1,is this going to be fixed?
NOTE:Drago need to be nerfed
 

Nikola

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pokearcanine said:
Moves that should raise stats by 2 levels are raising only 1,is this going to be fixed?
NOTE:Drago need to be nerfed
-Pokemon who is suffering the most from a nerf is Dragonite. In my opinion way more then Slaking is. Outrage, Thrash, Petal Dance and those kind of moves were nerfed to the ground and yet his base speed is only 80 while Tauros has base speed of 110. I am curious why you think that Dragonite should be nerfed? If it's out of this topic feel free to PM me. I would really like to talk about that.
 

matileo19

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I just think that instead making a complain about pokes being OP or broken moves... test this new battle system for a week or more, so we can discuss stuff or say if this was or not a bad/good update. I've done 10 battles yesterday (without changing moves BECAUSE I DON?T HAVE MONEY,, wich means that I had disadvntage) and I won 7 of 10... Casually I had a team to counter an ''OP dragonite - OP Metagross'' and stuff... think about it
 
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