PWO Client Source Code

[Saurus]

I think you all should understand that, at the end of the day, it's all about the players. Do the players deserve something new? Yes they do. If there is something new for them, why not give it to them?

Mud-slinging and shifting blame is not a solution. We, the players could have gotten a client that was out of this world had shane remained a dev for pwo. It cannot be denied because his pro client backs up what I'm saying. If this game is to progress, the holier-than-thou attitudes, god complexes, egotist agenda's, all of it should be put aside and go forward with the players enjoyability of the game.

If Bluerise + Staff + Shane shook hands, maybe the players would receive a client they actually deserve. Pwo is not about senseless bickering. It's about the community and the game itself.

 

[Arnie]

If anyone should have the right to release it or even make a topic like this, it should be Shane. I agree, pwo should hire more capable volunteers rather than anyone who has the same old excuse of "I'm volunteering my time."

As far as it harming pwo, why would they care? They're a competing game, however it only means they'll be making more competition for themselves, competition for players, and I can guarantee a capable developer would get their hands on the code and turn it around. But this is the point I was proving earlier... the "PRO" team spends more time taunting pwo than worrying about their own product, if you ask me it just displays a total lack of unprofessional-ism on your part it also just shows the amount of immaturity from both teams, you have devs from this forums bickering back and forth with people from a competing game, and let's face it there's not much they can say because they're probably scared of the code getting release, and it's out of their control.

This could have all been avoided if PWO's staff had listened prior and started ground up when they couldn't do much with the source instead of having mediocre devs(no offense) add little snippets to an already existing one. But don't forget while it's Shane's work, he wasn't the only one who worked on this client many other devs have put time and work into PWO, so the argument that it's his code only...I think, would be invalid.

Also, while you guys are pretending PRO is some whole other source code that's so advanced, it was handed down to you by shane which was planned to be another version of PWO, most of you are getting supercilious elitist attitudes because you caught a lucky break on Shane's leaving and got a first chance to join him on his little journey to create "anti-pwo"

When the only actual main ones I give credit would be Shane and BIS and maybe a select couple others. Others shouldn't even be making comments like they actually made any real contributions. Don't get me wrong though, I don't have a problem with either game. I just think this whole bash thing both games is immature and makes both parties look like vengeful angry or mad children who have an envious attitude or hold a grudge for some past reason. If you don't like pwo, I don't get why people still linger around, bottom line.

I think u need to come back when u get ur own money to spend on pokemon and not use someone else's credit card (y)

As for me. i'm personally above all this bickering and arguing over a game. I'll be working on what i've been told to do and doing it to the best of my ability, something which PWO will sadly regret passing the opportunity to gain from. While ur all stuck in 2003 ill be here designing animations and tiles from the ground up to bring a pokemon MMO to a more up to date stage.

 

[Yukiro~]

If anyone should have the right to release it or even make a topic like this, it should be Shane. I agree, pwo should hire more capable volunteers rather than anyone who has the same old excuse of "I'm volunteering my time."

As far as it harming pwo, why would they care? They're a competing game, however it only means they'll be making more competition for themselves, competition for players, and I can guarantee a capable developer would get their hands on the code and turn it around. But this is the point I was proving earlier... the "PRO" team spends more time taunting pwo than worrying about their own product, if you ask me it just displays a total lack of unprofessional-ism on your part it also just shows the amount of immaturity from both teams, you have devs from this forums bickering back and forth with people from a competing game, and let's face it there's not much they can say because they're probably scared of the code getting release, and it's out of their control.

This could have all been avoided if PWO's staff had listened prior and started ground up when they couldn't do much with the source instead of having mediocre devs(no offense) add little snippets to an already existing one. But don't forget while it's Shane's work, he wasn't the only one who worked on this client many other devs have put time and work into PWO, so the argument that it's his code only...I think, would be invalid.

Also, while you guys are pretending PRO is some whole other source code that's so advanced, it was handed down to you by shane which was planned to be another version of PWO, most of you are getting supercilious elitist attitudes because you caught a lucky break on Shane's leaving and got a first chance to join him on his little journey to create "anti-pwo"

When the only actual main ones I give credit would be Shane and BIS and maybe a select couple others. Others shouldn't even be making comments like they actually made any real contributions. Don't get me wrong though, I don't have a problem with either game. I just think this whole bash thing both games is immature and makes both parties look like vengeful angry or mad children who have an envious attitude or hold a grudge for some past reason. If you don't like pwo, I don't get why people still linger around, bottom line.

I think u need to come back when u get ur own money to spend on pokemon and not use someone else's credit card (y)

As for me. i'm personally above all this bickering and arguing over a game. I'll be working on what i've been told to do and doing it to the best of my ability, something which PWO will sadly regret passing the opportunity to gain from. While ur all stuck in 2003 ill be here designing animations and tiles from the ground up to bring a pokemon MMO to a more up to date stage.

I'm not here to get into a personal argument, that would make me out to be exactly what I stated in the paragraph, immature. Also, it's my own credit card..issued from my Military bank. Either way it doesn't make what I said wrong, lol. It's constantly being proven when people from pro are making constant posts on this forums, yet most of you claim to hate PWO so much, but you have no problem lingering around here. I'm not exactly attacking anyone, it's my form of criticism, for you to keep or dispose...I'd expect a lot of you who were staff above anything to act way more mature. Don't get me wrong, I think it's also immature for any staff from pwo to have an open argument, but I'd be pissed too, if a competing game was doing what you guys are doing.

I only want what's best for a game I enjoy playing, to be blunt. I don't care for anyone involved in the argument to say the least, if that wasn't clear. So I don't want any confusion that I'm siding with anyone, I'm just sticking up for the fact that some people actually enjoy playing this game, you're hurting them more than the staff. A fine way to set an example of what kind of show you're running.

 

[KaiReborn]

If it was hatred for the game as you claim it is, then those you're referring to would have stopped making suggestions on what could improve it long ago (yet that's not quite the case). The way I see it, the issue present here is related to the policy inside staff and if you can't differentiate those two, maybe silence would make you look wiser.

 

[Yukiro~]

But it shouldn't be an issue because none of the people making the argument are currently staff, it's like going into google and telling them they need to change about how they operate, when you don't work there. In the end it's ultimately still up to the company. This topic is not at all meant as a suggestion, and most of the topics aren't suggestions...perhaps you should use your own advice.

The issue present isn't policy within the staff, because anyone with any bit of sense knows you're not going to be able to change the way a staff team is operating if they've been operating like that for years, especially not when you're using their forums and client to throw your game name around. If that was the case, then they wouldn't be making outrageous statements or engaging in arguments, I think that's why a pm system was created. Suggestions could just as easily be made there, and again it would look way more professional rather than looking like an attack.

 

[CynicalChoco]

The staff are going to get attacked no matter what they do, people's actions over the last few months have made that clear whether it goes with or against what some people want they will still use what ever happens as a way of attacking others. Even after all this time this is still happening. Taking 'you' as the broad anti-staff group that is active here - You say to release the client's source and do with it what you will, but then you also say you cannot use ANY of the current client code as it is Shane's. These are two comflicting points that cannot cross for obvious reasons yet you have people who will interchange them and attack the staff for not doing the 'obvious' choice, if you cannot get a clear path of what you want and what you think should be done of course it is going to look like an attack because it follows no logic, you cannot have your cake and eat it to.

If what is said is true and the client source would share code with Shane's new game and that would also use the server code from PWO, then to release it would be a foolish move for simple reasons. You cannot control who gets access to it and you cannot control what they do with it. Your motives for doing this may be pure, but can you say that for everyone who would have access to it? The possibility to create any sort of hack or bot or PWO-like game is there for everyone to see.

 

[KaiReborn]

Note that I never said used this topic as an example of what I said (truth be told, it isn't). What I'm saying is, if it was a case of hatred for the game, some of the members involved in the current argument would have stopped making suggestions on what could improve the game (if I hated a game, I sure wouldn't bother making suggestions on stuff that could be added to improve it. Instead I'd just wait for the moment it'd finally die). Not everyone involved is on an hatred cruzade. It's akso curious that the purpose of this topic has been derailed from, so far there has been little to no input on the idea presented, instead of a debate on how the idea presented could benefit/harm the game, there's no more than another argument and that's a shame

 

[Yukiro~]

You're right, I don't have anything to say against that.

 

[HitmonFonty]

I think you guys are expecting the worst from each other. I read nothing of threats here but after a word from Xan accusations of threats from both him and Nikola fly.

Xan said that IF the client source is shared the possibility of it being used AGAINST us by others (not necessarily anyone here, that was not mentioned, but anyone if it is publicly released) is at least as likely as us getting benefits from it. It is stated as being at least one of the main reasons he didn't make it public a long time ago.

He also COMPARES the sharing of the client source with making the server code public, since doing that would also make Shane's game vulnerable by default. Speculation people, not threats.

If you assume the worst, you will see it.

My personal opinion this post comes many years too late. We now have a new client waiting in the wings. Version 2 has served us well for many years but is soon to be retired. If it is released to the public after that and another game or games are made from it all well and good. But for us it is time to move on.

 

[Xanatus]

Not quite sure why you think I want to harm PWO. I would be doing favor to both staff and players. Most of the PWO staff probably understands the reasoning. As for the PRO, again...not quite sure what is the code you are talking about. If you are talking about PWO code after Shane left then that code is due to become non existant in our game. New code will be taking place. There are 3 server for PRO, one of them being under Russian SPETSNAZ authority becuase they have awesome connection as you can see from the server IP, one with Shane and other one with me...and codes are being exchanged as we code. I personally went several time through it. PRO code core is a lot different then PWO one is. Hence the features and performance. To make things clear, I won't be sharing server code PWO is using now. This is just the client code I was talking about.

Again I am not quite sure why would that mean bad thing for PWO. And above all do you see any threat here made by me? Because I don't. Saying I don't care is exaggeration. Staff should know I care, especially the players. There have been like 20 devs thrown away due to applying issue. PWO staff wanted and needed a dev badly but not being able to provide the rank due to dev applying system going through you. As a staff I was rather sick of seeing my fellow staff members losing nerves and being treated as if they were social case. Some of them may be brainwashed however. I know very well how system is working. All the hate you see directed to PWO staff could be avoided if the policy was different. Most of the hate are coming due to lack of updates and development and we all know who is to blame there. I came here to post in peace wanting to help to everyone and not a single threat has been made yet it was said I am treating to PWO. Nonsense and insult.

If you blame me for the bad dev situation, please get at least your facts right.
- Dev application don't go through me since many years. Eg. Hardcoreh has not been hired by me nor had I been asked. This goes to all applications in the last years, except Shane of course. (and that's ok!)
- The reason we coudn't get the client updated was because Shane didn't share the sourcecode. We had no way to do updates. We have now access and are using these chances. Some updates on this are just about on it's way.


And here is why releasing the PWO Client source doesn't do any good for simple reasons:

There are no positive updates you can make to the client other than cosmetic updates. You could change the UI or you could add other visuals.
You can't add any sigificant features or bug fixes without touching the server. Almost all game logic is based on the server, including battles, items, npcs, and pretty much everything else that has multiplayer interaction. Almost all updates Shane recently did that haven't been cosmetic required a server update, just you know. So having the next Shane rising up by releasing the source can't happen.

Other than that, there are tons of negativ things people can and will do with the source. The source gives away the exact network structure and the perfect sandbox to test all possible exploits.
You know as well as me that Shane did build a bot for PWO very fast and easily with his code. Cause basicly the client is already a bot when you add or remove some functions.

And if you belive that just changing some lines of my server code in PRO - by adding a new packet system (btw. the new packet system is probably also mine), fixing some bugs and adding a few features - makes the server significant different, then you're wrong.
I bet my *** I whoudn't even need a day to change the old client source to login perfectly to PRO (without new features working of course), to get at least some bots going.

Speaking of Shane:

Shane still is my friend and we settled all conflicts. Whereever possible, I help him with his stuff and he helps me when I need him. There is no competition or rivalry between us. That's why he allows us to use his source and I allow him to use mine.
I wished the community would see it the same way.
The only reason I had to refuse joining PRO was because of time and the fact that I'm working on almost a same project. Other than that, I always enjoy working with Shane. He is awesome and hopefully we can do something together again in the furture.

 

[BRGodEastwood]

If shane is so awesome, why did he get black balled out of pwo not once, not twice, but at least 3 times? What does that say about your current staff? You and I both know the only reason you keep them is because lee does whatever he wants and doesnt bother you unless hes in trouble (like this situation here) which is exactly how you like it. Thats also why this game is going to die out sooner or later, because your boss dog wants to rule like a nazi.

Anyways, hope to see you on Reign of Monsters whenever Shane starts working on that then, since you refused PRO and all

PS: I always wanted to know, if this is no competition or rivalry, why does your staff punish any hint of advertising so vehemently, isnt this a not for profit game?

 

[Xanatus]

Sometimes relationships don't work. Shane has left on his own, the majority of the staff didn't want him to go, neither me. But it was his decision.
It's sad how it turned out, but that's how it is now.

And Biz, i have problems following your logic. You're constantly comparing staff to nazi. Yet you are the one who asked me for a dictator rank so you can kick everyone and can do whatever you want.
So how exactly is Lee more nazi (using your words) then you want to be?
Care to explain?

 

[BRGodEastwood]

Sometimes relationships don't work. Shane has left on his own, the majority of the staff didn't want him to go, neither me. But it was his decision.
It's sad how it turned out, but that's how it is now.

And Biz, i have problems following your logic. You're constantly comparing staff to nazi. Yet you are the one who asked me for a dictator rank so you can kick everyone and can do whatever you want.
So how exactly is Lee more nazi (using your words) then you want to be?
Care to explain?

What happened to the Nazi's? They lost the war and all of them got kicked out. Being a German, I figured you'd know that. I asked you for an admin rank, so I could build a better team for the game itself, not just a team that only gives a **** about themselves and their interests like the staff you have. Lee and the rest of them acted exactly how the nazis did. Got rid of anyone without same ideals as them, or anyone they just did not like. Shane and I were there long before any of them even showed up, yet Lee pulls the rank card on us, and brainwashes his sheep to follow, like Hitler. Hes slaughtering this game and its players. I know some Jewish members of the community will get mad about the comparison, but it is what it is.


Honestly, its pathetic how your team pushes shane out every single time just because he was upstaging them. Dont say he left on his own and that majority of staff didnt want him to go. I am not a sheep and you know this, dont pull the wool over my eyes. Although you're probably getting the wool pulled over your eyes by team england you got over there.

And I still remember how you disrespected me by calling me an "ideas guy" and how no one wouldn't want to work with me.

Well guess what, Nikola and I have an entire team working with me on a game that will surpass this, and we will all show you what we're capable of. Everyone discarded by pwo, showing what we're capable of. Arnie has single handedly done more than any spriter PWO has ever had. Already we've made more content progress than PWO has ever made, and I'm proud of my team. Most of us are doing things we never have done before, and we're excelling at it. And you want to know why? Because we dont have a selfish british nazi who only has his best interests leading the charge. Nikola and I have no self interest in the making of Pokemon Revolution Online, other than to make an MMO the right way. Unlike your agent who wants to just practice his coding on this game and use it as his sandbox, our goal is to make PRO a fun game, that doesn't require a **** ton of microtransactions.

You're a good coder and all, but 9/10 I would take shane over you. Our new game will show you why.

 

[CynicalChoco]

Bis, you wanted to build 'your' team, the existing staff structure was that we decided as a group who we wanted and did not want to offer a staff position those two methods would not mesh. You would be coming in to a structure much different to you previous time there and would want to stamp your authority on it, wanting to remove existing staff because of a personal dislike of them regardless of what work they did or were doing would not benefit the game in any way. Also, if you are so knowledgable about Nazi's you would know they murdered millions of innocent people, something I have have yet to see Blue or any PWO staff member do.

We will all wish you luck with PRO, but it is not PWO so trying to force your own ideology on it was not a thing that would ever be well recieved.

 

[BRGodEastwood]

Bis, you wanted to build 'your' team, the existing staff structure was that we decided as a group who we wanted and did not want to offer a staff position those two methods would not mesh. You would be coming in to a structure much different to you previous time there and would want to stamp your authority on it, wanting to remove existing staff because of a personal dislike of them regardless of what work they did or were doing would not benefit the game in any way. Also, if you are so knowledgable about Nazi's you would know they murdered millions of innocent people, something I have have yet to see Blue or any PWO staff member do.

We will all wish you luck with PRO, but it is not PWO so trying to force your own ideology on it was not a thing that would ever be well recieved.

Because you nimrods already forced your own ideology on the game. Also tell me something, where is your proof of your claims? Who did I want to remove regardless of what work they did or what they were doing? If that were the case I would have removed lees admin rank as soon as I got promoted (like he did to me, harhar). Dont push your insecurities on me, without any proof. I only dislike people who dont do any work. Only person I would have gotten rid of, was Pansy, as she did literally nothing.


And you all are the last to talk about "benefitting the game" you people continously harassed shane after each of his updates, and acted like children. if anyone didnt want the game to benefit, it was you all. if you wanted the game to "benefit" you all would check your egos to the side. not treat the game like your own personal project.

the nazis murdered millions of innocent people. Team england slaughtered all of PWO. thats why only 30 people maximum are on daily, but ofcourse no one wants to mention that. Dont even blame it on closed registrations, theres over 10k accounts.

I also just wanted to say, i love how highly you think of your group that you say that the people i bring in would not have meshed with your "group". Remember clown, I recruited over half of you that teamed up with papa blue. if you have such a lack of faith in my ability to make a group that would benefit a game, that would mean all of you are indeed useless.


Your post just shows the epitome of PWO staffs problems. Ignorant, egotistical, and holier than thou attitude. Funny for a group that made minimal to no progress other than some spawn changes.

 

[BRGodEastwood]

Also, I find it hilarious you guys were worried Id demote someone based off personal dislike... WHEN THATS EXACTLY WHAT WAS DONE TO ME. You hypocritical bastards. I refuse to acknowledge any responses from any of you buffoons if you dont have a red name tag anymore. If you havent dealt with the amount of bs ive dealt with in this game (heres a list.. been demoted 3 times for no reason, ip banned once by jinji on false pretenses, banned on the irc 3 times for no god damn reason as well as losing my irc leader spot, and had to deal with a bunch of people promoted after me come and ruin the game i worked for 5 years on) and I still tried to come back. You've dealt with nothing, and you're already tired and left. So do not dare try to talk down to me, especially with your hypocritical nonsense.

 

[CynicalChoco]

Can I preface this post by saying its cute you would ask me ' where is your proof of your claims?' when you have previously and continue in this very post to make sweeping statements that you also have zero proof of. That is the pot calling the kettle black, dear.

You admit in this very post that you would have removed Pansy, infact her account was banned while she was doing GM work during all of this, which straight away validates my point. She is an active GM and had you been a part of the staff during the time before these events happaned you would see the private discussions and such that take place to see every staff members input, maybe she did not ban as many players as other GMs or maybe she didn't lock as many posts but without access to see exactly what each staff has and has not done you cannot say that someone was doing 'literally nothing'. That would also be if these points covered the full aspects of GM work which of course you are well aware they do not.

I would like to point out that at this very moment there are quite a few more than 30 people online, so please if you would provide ' proof of your claims' as you would ask of me I would be glad to side with a fair assessment of things.

If you want to look at why you would not mesh just take a glance at your posts, you make contstant vitriolic and hate filled posts, throw around accusations and abuse at people here and then claim they are Nazis (comparing an argument on a video game to the evils World War 2 is a tad melodramatic, if not downright insulting to everyone who suffered from them. Can you honestly say that this has caused you as much pain as the Nazis caused to the people they murdered or tortured?). You should know by now that you were 'demoted' from the admin position because you were put in against the wills of almost every staff member without even a prior warning along with the attemtped demotion of another staff member at the same time, what else is this to be considered but an attack? At the very least this should have been discussed first so that no knee-jerk reactions would be made and clearly this happened on both sides.

If you want to assume things about me go ahead, I don't care what people like you think of me and I know that what ever things you could think up don't come close to what I have, and still do, deal with. I spent a smiliar amount of time as you in the staff most of that in the same staff role so you can't pull the 'ruin the game i worked for 5 years on' card on me, that doesn't fly when we did the same job.