Lets discuss staff laziness. Lack of updates

[Mooo]

LOL George deserves no more respect than a fly stuck in an outhouse. You're naive to think he didn't deserve a response like that. You can only turn the other cheek so much before you get tired of having a bruised face. Now tell me moo, if somebody was slapping you in the face repeatedly would you sit there and take it and just keep saying "please stop that hurts" or would you eventually punch back?

As somebody that has dealt with this foolish punk on multiple occasion for the way he treats others I'd say he doesn't deserve the slightest bit of respect. Respect is earned and not given and disrespect is the same way. I'd say Georgie boy has earned every ounce of disrespect possible.

Georgelzr deserves no respect. Right.
Im not saying he didn't deserve a response like that. Im saying a response like that, it shouldn't have come from a staff member. A staff member should handle it better.

if somebody was slapping you in the face repeatedly would you sit there and take it?
Yes , i would have said please stop that hurts, followed by: i would tell the authority and put a restraining order on them and possibly press charges.

 

[Jobey]

LOL I love the response about pressing charges. Anyway, as for staff responses. It may not have been professional but people, even staff members, have the right to make replies like that if they get provoked enough. They shouldn't have to stand there and be insulted and just pretend its all rainbows and gumdrops just because they are staff members. Now I do agree that staff members shouldn't just insult players without care, but if the get provoked its fair game. That's the case with all people, I don't think anybody has the right to insult others unless the person deserves to be insulted by being disrespectful and for their mistreatment of others.

---

Guys you just bored of Pokemon. This game can be boring. Its because of graphics, visuals, sound, music. All other games have very fancy interface and cool colors. DEVs can be stopped playing. Dev team might started playing Monster Park or PUBG. No worries okey? I will be your designer and we will make this game fun and fancy.

This game is very complete, thats it. PvP, Trade, quests, farming, collecting; yes its done. Now we will think about fun and rainbow side of game. Just texts and moving photos cant be nice.

Best Pokemon game is that game and our coders are best coders. This game will be start of new Pokemon series; we will name it Freemon and all Pokemon fans will move to Freemon series.

What? :O This kind of seems off subject.

 

[Mooo]

LOL I love the response about pressing charges. Anyway, as for staff responses. It may not have been professional but people, even staff members, have the right to make replies like that if they get provoked enough. They shouldn't have to stand there and be insulted and just pretend its all rainbows and gumdrops just because they are staff members. Now I do agree that staff members shouldn't just insult players without care, but if the get provoked its fair game. That's the case with all people, I don't think anybody has the right to insult others unless the person deserves to be insulted by being disrespectful and for their mistreatment of others.

Haven't you ever heard of, 2 wrongs dont make a right? Staff shouldn't fight fire with fire. A staff member should set a better example for the rest of us.


And no.They dont have the right to make replies like that. I think Tasigur should apologize. Perhaps not to Georgelzr but to everyone for the unprofessionalism and setting a bad example on how to deal with something like this. This is bad for the community.

 

[Jobey]

Have you ever heard of standing up for yourself? Yeah perhaps two wrongs dont make a right, but I dont think he was in the wrong for his reply, he simply was defending himself. But anyway, this is getting off subject, you think its alright to be talked down to and just take it but I think its alright to stand up for yourself. We obviously have two different mindsets so best to simply agree to disagree. Neither of us are wrong in our opinion of how to handle these things.

 

[Mooo]

Have you ever heard of standing up for yourself? Yeah perhaps two wrongs dont make a right, but I dont think he was in the wrong for his reply, he simply was defending himself. But anyway, this is getting off subject, you think its alright to be talked down to and just take it  but I think its alright to stand up for yourself. We obviously have two different mindsets so best to simply agree to disagree. Neither of us are wrong in our opinion of how to handle these things.

I see your opinion of this, but im not going to agree to disagree. Because i agree with you. Its alright to stand up for yourself. But from my point of view its this: If just a member says that to another member i wouldn't have said anything. But it was from a staff member. We members look up to staff. They are the role models. If you understand this point of view its a bit heartbreaking. A staff member doesn't need to jump down to their level.

They are better than that. I know it.

 

[Jobey]

Even in a staff position though, there is nothing wrong with defending yourself when provoked enough. Granted he will likely receive punishment for how he handled that but to me he had every right and I truly respect him for it.

 

[Shiny!Midou~]

staff are not robots they are human after all and every human beeing offended should defend himself when he got offended so i am totally with tasi and everyone like george doesn't have the right offend anyone if he doesn't like the game he is free to go now and as far as i know staff are doing good progress ingame so i hope this will be as simple :" if you want to stick around and wait for the best things you shouldn't start offend anyone especially you are taking extra time from them at work ingame repliying here so could we please be adults here ? hope so

 

[Tasigur]

Wow we are still discussimg the quote I put? Here let's see if I can end it.
Moo, go back and re-read what it said. Did I actually call him names or only referred to what he wrote?

 

[yuno44907]

That seems off topic.

We need players okay? And if people mod the game they may hack it too; its better we keep codes secret. Pokemon weaknessess are must be %150 instead of %200 because 150+50=200 200/2=100 but 200+50=250 and 250/2=125 not 100 so if a pokemon have many weaknessess no matter what, it sucks and game is becoming speed game if you have 1 hit KO.

If staff is lazy look for new staff, we may take server from them. Looks like DEVs not playing this game anymore. I am thinking about Raids, Guild Wars, random item and pokemon loot. Custom pokemons and more balanced PvP. We need more multiplayer in this game.

 

[Mooo]

Wow we are still discussimg the quote I put? Here let's see if I can end it.
Moo, go back and re-read what it said. Did I actually call him names or only referred to what he wrote?

You implied Georgelzr was stupid, and you also called everyone in the room dumb.  (witch i think a staff member should never do)
Maybe i was in the wrong here idk. Maybe i dont know how things work around here? This game is a bit smaller than other games, so if staff talk down to people its ok around here.

Sorry.

 

[The-Joker]

why the staff don't search peoples to help in developments?

current staff has few members, so...?

well, if it were that simple, we wouldnt be in this situation.  staff dont just pull in any random player and hope they can do a good job and not ruin everything.  instead, they take the time to make sure a player is someone they think a) could handle the responsibility, b) has the necessary skills (or at least the capacity to learn them) to do the job, and c) wont go mad with power and destroy important things, like, say, database entries.  also, after a staff member thinks a player would fit those criteria, theyre also investigated for any rule-breaking, the history of which would preclude them from staff consideration as well.  it takes a while, and from what ive heard from riga in the past, its not uncommon for her to pick someone out that she thinks would be a good fit only for the GM staff to find issues with, say, farming starters.  so, yes, while more staff would certainly allow more things to get done, its not that easy to do, especially with the relatively small talent pool to choose from.

and who told in a random player? u are crazy? 

I believe that if they search for qualified people they will find it.

 

[Jobey]

That seems off topic.

We need players okay? And if people mod the game they may hack it too; its better we keep codes secret. Pokemon weaknessess are must be %150 instead of %200 because 150+50=200 200/2=100 but 200+50=250 and 250/2=125 not 100 so if a pokemon have many weaknessess no matter what, it sucks and game is becoming speed game if you have 1 hit KO.

If staff is lazy look for new staff, we may take server from them. Looks like DEVs not playing this game anymore. I am thinking about Raids, Guild Wars, random item and pokemon loot. Custom pokemons and more balanced PvP. We need more multiplayer in this game.

*sigh* :huh:

 

[Rigaudon]

> its not uncommon for her to pick someone out that she thinks would be a good fit only for the GM staff to find issues with, say, farming starters.

You would be surprised with how many people I have gotten banned or nearly banned this way.
I'm glad that somebody finally brought up recruitment, which I think is one of the primary issues PWO faces.

However, I don't really want to get into depth here. You guys know we work for free and many have decided that it's "not good enough an explanation"; some have gone so far to replace it with "it's not the lack of pay, staff are lazy', so me re-explaining it is pointless. Hint: It's hard to get a feel for how insane the amount of work in PWO is unless you start ticking off what a real budget and staff actually SHOULD be for a game like this. Any single staff member getting paid full time would exceed PWO's income by tens of thousands. In a year.

Please do allow me to say that who is doing what is my forte, and why somebody is/isn't doing anything will be known to at least one of the admins. We have a heads up topic for this stuff and staff absences are planned around as best we can. Calling for people to be fired/hired without the information staff have, or requesting that we put up who works how hard up for the masses to judge is absurd and will lead to drama or missed opportunities.

Note that some of us have been doing this for over 5 years. Burnout is also a thing. Because nobody is paid, its success and survival rely entirely on individual resilience. Why wasn't there a swarm a week or so ago? I just couldn't get myself to get out of bed and nobody could cover for me. Similar story for a small Halloween event: Lots of valid, realistically scoped suggestions, but no. Something in me just couldn't, and there was no external force strong enough to change that. (No, extra yelling, accusations, and pitchforks was not going to work.) It doesn't mean we're ignoring you, don't care, or are lazy. It just means we're human and have little to no reason above some sort of ideal we have of ourselves/the game to keep going.

If all of that doesn't sink in to the point where you are at least not angry/hostile, you either don't have the experience to understand the scale this project has and sacrifice required of the people spending massive amounts of value labor for free here....or you don't care and just want things to be ideal despite reality.

Gonna take a quick generalized statement at hostile players here:
It's so easy to just want to think that PWO is bad because of some bad staff. After all, easy solution! Fire those people and hire better people, right? But no, PWO's issues with manpower are systematic and complex. Unfortunately few people want to know the truth that things are grey and nuanced, not black/white and clear cut. There are no one-sentence fixes to make PWO amazing. You can't even fit the needed discourse within a few pages. I'm happy to write novels (and I have before), but that's not going to benefit anyone here and frankly the people staff are trying to appease don't care about that. Not really. They just want to yell until something good happens, and then they can say "ahha, see, I yelled about this and it was done! Therefore it must have been all me, and I am right."


And I'm not going to believe that other MMOs pay absolutely nobody to do work unless they post their total cash and their spent transaction history like we can/do.

 

[Pansy]

That seems off topic.

If staff is lazy look for new staff, we may take server from them. Looks like DEVs not playing this game anymore. I am thinking about Raids, Guild Wars, random item and pokemon loot. Custom pokemons and more balanced PvP. We need more multiplayer in this game.

DEV's are here. As I'm sure everyone else is aware and what has already been said in this topic, they're busy doing the LUA change over. 

Again with the pointing fingers at 'lazy' people; Shodan hit the nail on the head with his reply. Let me give you list of the dangers of adding staff willynilly without the appropriate background checks. 
Previously we have had people abuse their post as staff.
- Spawning Pokémon and giving them away to players. In the end a lot of people were extremely upset to have these Pokémon and ones that were legit taken away from them. 
- Making a profit from them. By profit I mean making actual money from them. 
-Giving away Pokémon / money and then blackmailing players to the point that player breaks. This actually went far deeper than I had expected it to go.
- Leaking of staff topics and discussions
- Leaking all player usernames and passwords .
- Leaking the code
Lastly, deleting PWO altogether

These are just some things that I can think of in my time here. I'm not saying that the staff were not at fault as some of this could have been prevented given the appropriate checks. Some of these things just happened much later down the line sadly. 
My point is, so much has happened in the past that we try to be as careful as possible to avoid history repeating itself. Staff probably should be hosting more contests, events or working with the players to come up with new exciting ideas and hopefully that will be something to look forward to in the future. However; as for anything permanent I think it has already been said that there would be little point at this stage because it would all need to be converted to LUA. (Please, correct me if I am wrong)

 

[yuno44907]

If you delete people, there will be noone left. And this is an MMO it grows with people so dont punish anyone. People can be 8 years old people can be stupid or insane; have fun with them dont turn this to a depression, make it rainbowful.

This is really best Pokemon game; actually i want to write flaws of all games i played for proving best game is PWO. Actually i will start a topic for telling to people why other games suck.

You know, who works hard; deserves the money and who dont do any job must not get money. For becoming rich we must make fancy visuals and animations. Stupid children love animations and sound effect. Like opening loot crates in Hearthstone or League of Legends. Also there is a game called Guns Up, people love it because of destruction and loot and randomness. Its all about visuals if you want to get rich. Pocket Mortys a nice game just because of being fancy. You understand my examples right? Game is good but not looking fancy.

We have to understand how much money a game like PWO can gain. It can be most played pokemon game in just 2 years. Dont be stupid and fix your problems and listen me sometimes.

I love you, dont argue; try to attract more players. Use internet and shamelessly talk about PWO in everwhere related to Pokemon Digimon, Monster Rancher, Yugioh Beyblade and Ben10 and video games. I may write copy paste articles for you to spamm.

If Nintendo sue us we can make our own game without copying. Miscrits actually really cool.

 

[Klay]

Yuno, some points:
- if staff starts gaining their life with PWO benefits, Nintendo has all the rights to shut them down since Pokémon is their license; And Nintendo is greedy enough to do it again;
- same if it becomes to have adverts or a huge community;
- you called your future potential players "stupid". Unlike you, staff has some respect for players even if they're not paid;
- PWO is a Pokémon-fanmade game, free-to-play with the attempt of not doing pay-to-win, not a FPS game which only cares about wallets. You can't implement what a game like CS:GO or PD2 implemented just to have cash without taking care of those who can't put a single centime in the game;
- to stay in the Pokémon-fanmade part, staff already tried some years ago to do a Fakemon game to replace PWO, but they decided to stay in the Pokémon theme. Because the game we played when we were kids was Pokémon, not a weird fakemon ROM.

 

[Pansy]

If you delete people, there will be noone left. And this is an MMO it grows with people so dont punish anyone. People can be 8 years old people can be stupid or insane; have fun with them dont turn this to a depression, make it rainbowful.

I wasn't saying delete anything or punish people. If this is what you thought I said then you need to re-read posts. I was simply stating things that have happened in the past because staff were hired eagerly.

We have to understand how much money a game like PWO can gain. It can be most played pokemon game in just 2 years. Dont be stupid and fix your problems and listen me sometimes.

PWO can not make any profits. This would instantly get Nintendo on us and all that has been gained given to them, and then some. Sorry, but I doubt anyone here wants to stand in a court room against Nintendo. All our donations are simply for server upkeep and now, charity (which is absolutely amazing in my honest opinion). No one here wants money, we do it out of love not for our own selfish needs. 

If Nintendo sue us we can make our own game without copying. Miscrits actually really cool.

I don't think any of us would be doing anything because we'd be so bankrupt we wouldn't even be able to afford a PC or internet lol. Also, people play PWO because it is Pokémon. If we changed to say, I don't know, just some other less popular monster game; do you honestly think people would stick around? How about the amount of people who type 'Pokemon MMO' into Google? Do you think there are more people googling X MMO? Honestly, I don't think so.

 

[yuno44907]

Pokemon is a game genre. You may say like pokemon so, pokemon fans will come than.

 

[shodan21]

Pokemon is a game genre. You may say like pokemon so, pokemon fans will come than.

please stop derailing this thread.

 

[HitmonFonty]

I think this is going quite well. Just please everyone, including staff, stick to the topic and avoid name-calling.

On that, I believe the only staff that can push things along right now are GE staff, because they are doing the NPC conversions. And it's a bit hard to hire new GEs at the moment because 1. They need to be trained by current GE staff who already have their hands full and 2. We certainly don't have time to teach them Xanascript which will be useless after the conversions anyway. And 3. has already been mentioned, even if we do find someone they have to pass our security checks or we have a bigger risk of them breaking the game- again.