Battle Tower Feedback

Dalek

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Okay so I have made this topic seeing as the Battle Tower (BT) has been open for a week already and wanted some feedback and to go over some of the logic behind how things are currently set up.

As I am sure you are aware by now there are 2 standard modes available, regular and survival mode. Regular mode involves completing several rounds of battles to raise your BT rank at which point some upgrades and new modes become available. Currently this mode yields 1 Battle Point (BP) for each battle, and then an extra 3 BP upon completion of the last round in the series.

In this mode, at lower levels the Pokemon you fight are mostly 1st stage Pokemon before then before then moving on as the levels progress to include more higher evolution and stronger Pokemon. Between each battle, Pokemon are healed.

Survival mode presents a different challenge, Pokemon are no longer healed between each battle and the aim is to put together the longest streak of battles possible. Initially the prizes for this mode were such that there would be an increase in rewards after every 5 battles but as it became apparent that long streaks were possible, this had to be changed. This led to changing it to just be capped at 2 points per battle. Since then after consultation with players, this has again been changed to yield a reward of 1 point for each battle up to 10, then 2 points per battle up to 40 battles and 3 points for each further win above this point. In terms of setting prices this gives us a dilemma as initially pricings for items were based on people doing 3 regular mode battles a day yielding 30 points total for a days effort.

Currently each player is given 3 attempts at the Battle Tower each day but has the opportunity to increase this number for an increasing number of BP, so for 30 points this becomes 4 tries a day, 45, 5 tries a day, 60, 6 tries a day, etc. Also there are several special modes available, a mirror mode, a type disadvantage mode, a custom mode and a same type battle mode. Mirror mode involves pitting your team against the same team, custom mode allows you to test your team against one which is composed of any Pokemon you have seen in the wild. Same type and Type disadvantage battles force you to use a team which consists of one type and either fight a similar team or one which it is weak against. Each of these as things stand use one of your daily Battle Tower runs and currently consist of a single battle, some of which yield a small amount of BP. This has been done to give people the opportunity for people who may not have much time and so gives a higher point per battle rate than the other modes and so is less effort but would not give as many points as taking part in regular mode or survival mode and giving up more time would do.

As for prizes we have tried to give a wide variety of prizes with some of the TMs that have not previously been made available in other locations, a couple of move tutors in Waterfall and Roost, a host of EV items and some evolution items. As already stated, the pricings have initially been done on the basis of earning on average 30 points per day but this may need to be changed in order to maintain the value of the most desirable items here.

Just to note that we are working on setting the moves NPC Pokemon use to prevent useless moves being spammed by the AI. This should hopefully improve the challenge.

There are some questions that I have prepared which I would be interested in hearing the communities response as well as any other feedback or suggestions you may have.

Questions

Which Pokemon have you fought at each level of Regular Mode or survival mode that you feel are too weak or too strong for that Battle Tower level?

Based on a level system of 1-9, which Pokemon would you like to fight at each level to give a progressive increase in difficulty?

Is it too easy or too hard to gain Battle Points as things stand?

In survival mode how would you like to see BPs work in order to both reward progression and long streaks but yet maintain the value of prizes?

What is your average length of survival round run and how long does that take you to complete?

Are you happy with the range of TMs and move tutors available in the Battle Tower as prizes?

Are you happy with the range of held, EV and evolution items found as prizes?

What prizes do you feel serve no purpose in the Battle Tower and what do you think is most missing from the available prizes?

Should the special modes in Battle Tower use daily goes and reward points or just be for fun and challenge?

Can you think of any new Battle Tower modes you would like to see implemented that could make the experience more fun or unique?
 

Electrofreak

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Which Pokemon have you fought at each level of Regular Mode or survival mode that you feel are too weak or too strong for that Battle Tower level?

Regigas should be saved for later levels for sure. Without slow start it packs better stats than slaking, so that can be an issue. However for higher end, there is no issue.

Based on a level system of 1-9, which Pokemon would you like to fight at each level to give a progressive increase in difficulty?
1. baby pokemon
2. basic
3. stage 1
4. stage 2 lower base stats
5. stage 2 mid tier base stats
6. stage 2 high tier base stats
7. pseudo-legends (garchomp,metagross,tyranitar,salamence etc)
8. legends
9. legends + pseudo legends with competitive movesets Ex: Dragon dance sala, choice banded dragonite, choice specs jolteon, life orb gengar, etc.


Is it too easy or too hard to gain Battle Points as things stand?
This is a subjective question. What benchmark are you looking towards as easy, and what are you looking towards as hard? From my/HOF's perspective it is easy to plow through battle tower 30+ survival runs. For most people this is NOT the case, and they struggle.

In survival mode how would you like to see BPs work in order to both reward progression and long streaks but yet maintain the value of prizes?
1-10: 1 point (30-45 minutes)
11-25: 2 points ( 1 1/2 - 2 hours)
25-45: 3 points ( 3-4~ hours)
45-75: 4 points (4+ hours)
75+: 5 points
What is your average length of survival round run and how long does that take you to complete?
average: 25-30 (when doing other things)
35+ when focusing (only attempted twice and got OHKO hax'd)

Honestly it is possible to go on forever if it wasnt for the OHKO moves: sheer cold, horn drill, fissure, and guillotine. As of now there is a need for artificial difficulty since there are issues with the AI, so I understand.

Are you happy with the range of TMs and move tutors available in the Battle Tower as prizes?
Perfectly content. There could be more, but I understand other areas need things too.

Are you happy with the range of held, EV and evolution items found as prizes?
9/10 Dubious disc please

What prizes do you feel serve no purpose in the Battle Tower and what do you think is most missing from the available prizes?
Missing: Dubious disc
Serve no purpose: all seem pretty neat

Should the special modes in Battle Tower use daily goes and reward points or just be for fun and challenge?
Reward points for the reasons you stated above. The people who cant play often should be given a way to get their points.

Can you think of any new Battle Tower modes you would like to see implemented that could make the experience more fun or unique?
Competitive mode (all smogon-set pokemon) but this mode yields 2x the normal battle points.


For more detailed questions/opinions feel free to PM me.
 

HOF69

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Dalek said:
Is it too easy or too hard to gain Battle Points as things stand?

In survival mode how would you like to see BPs work in order to both reward progression and long streaks but yet maintain the value of prizes?

Right now I think it is pretty hard to gain a large amount of Battle Points, but I also believe this difficulty is acceptable to prevent the prizes from becoming devalued.

As for how points are rewarded in Survival Mode, having further tested the new edits, I will suggest the following layout:

1-10: 1 point each
11-35: 2 points each
36-70: 3 points each
71+: 4 points each
 

Jinga

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Questions

Is it too easy or too hard to gain Battle Points as things stand?

For first timers it's a bit frustrating, but it's nothing much.

What prizes do you feel serve no purpose in the Battle Tower and what do you think is most missing from the available prizes?

Remove voucher's and add the items (all of them) as prizes (it's my opinion)

Should the special modes in Battle Tower use daily goes and reward points or just be for fun and challenge?

Special modes should be for fun with friends imo

Can you think of any new Battle Tower modes you would like to see implemented that could make the experience more fun or unique?

Tier mode (as Electrofreak suggested)
 

Saric

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Electrofreak said:
Can you think of any new Battle Tower modes you would like to see implemented that could make the experience more fun or unique?
Competitive mode (all smogon-set pokemon) but this mode yields 2x the normal battle points.


For more detailed questions/opinions feel free to PM me.
That would be rather pointless as the AI really wouldn't be able to make full use of the sets given to their pokes. IMO the AI would have to be improved a fair bit until that would really make sense to implement.
 

Electrofreak

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Saric said:
Electrofreak said:
Can you think of any new Battle Tower modes you would like to see implemented that could make the experience more fun or unique?
Competitive mode (all smogon-set pokemon) but this mode yields 2x the normal battle points.


For more detailed questions/opinions feel free to PM me.
That would be rather pointless as the AI really wouldn't be able to make full use of the sets given to their pokes. IMO the AI would have to be improved a fair bit until that would really make sense to implement.

They could implement more choice item/life orb sets in the mean time until the AI can handle more utility/special sets. It would still be a step in the right direction.
 

Rafayel

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survival mode now rewards 1 bp each battle until the 10 battle. while its nice that such quick action is taken regarding player feedback, it would be still nicer to know what exactly changed :s i checked the change logs and the topic about battle tower in the announcements section and neither had any information about the changes.
 

Electrofreak

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update:
1 point round 1-10
2 points 11-30
3 points 31-60
4 points 61+

The above seems to be a balanced point distribution per win in survival given the changes.
 

HOF69

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I agree with Electro's proposed changes to Survival Mode, though 11-35 for 2 points and 36-60 for 3 points is also acceptable in my opinion.
 

Dalek

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As an update, I've put a restriction in on having just one of any individual hold item for the Battle Tower in line with the handhelds
 

Electrofreak

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Dalek said:
As an update, I've put a restriction in on having just one of any individual hold item for the Battle Tower in line with the handhelds

I would reset the record for survival if that is the case. Leftovers is what allowed for runs past 40. I only got to 36 (i think it was) with one leftovers. The current records are from spamming 6 leftovers.
 

HOF69

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Dalek said:
As an update, I've put a restriction in on having just one of any individual hold item for the Battle Tower in line with the handhelds

I do not agree with the timing of this update. You state that this is in line with the handhelds, but in the handhelds players also have access to fully working movesets, natures, abilities, and other held items to make their teams stronger and more complete. For example, with a limitation to how many healing items you can carry, Wish becomes one of the most important moves to have on a team. Right now this move isn't working in PWO. Furthermore, Heal Bell and Aromatherapy become essential in order to make progress. Right now the availability of Heal Bell is extremely limited in PWO because it is primarily a tutor move. Other examples of not being restricted to Leftovers in order to keep your team healthy would be the Black Sludge held item, and Toxic Orb coupled with the Poison Heal ability. Again, these are things not currently available in PWO.

My point is that the held item limit in the handhelds is less of an issue because there are other available features to make up for this restriction. PWO does not have all of these features, which makes this update far more significant. If this update is going to be kept, then a priority needs to be put on creating a Heal Bell tutor and fixing the move Wish.
 

Electrofreak

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HOF69 said:
Dalek said:
As an update, I've put a restriction in on having just one of any individual hold item for the Battle Tower in line with the handhelds

First, I will agree with Electro that the Survival streak should be reset if this edit is going to be permanent. The 60+ win streaks I've managed to accomplish would not have been possible without 6 Leftovers.

Second, I do not agree with the timing of this update. You state that this is in line with the handhelds, but in the handhelds players also have access to fully working movesets, natures, abilities, and other held items to make their teams stronger and more complete. For example, with a limitation to how many healing items you can carry, Wish becomes one of the most important moves to have on a team. Right now this move isn't working in PWO. Furthermore, Heal Bell and Aromatherapy become essential in order to make progress. Right now the availability of Heal Bell is extremely limited in PWO because it is primarily a tutor move. Other examples of not being restricted to Leftovers in order to keep your team healthy would be the Black Sludge held item, and Toxic Orb coupled with the Poison Heal ability. Again, these are things not currently available in PWO.

My point is that the held item limit in the handhelds is less of an issue because there are other available features to make up for this restriction. PWO does not have all of these features, which makes this update far more significant. If this update is going to be kept, then a priority needs to be put on creating a Heal Bell tutor and fixing the move Wish.


I echo this as well. Furthermore I would remove OHKO moves from the enemy pokemon with this update. A cleric is absolutely necessary now and they are often slow. I had a kyogre take out 3 of my pokemon due to hax before, and my clerics always die from OHKO moves. The loss of leftovers should at least be accompanied by the removal of artificial difficulty. OHKO moves aren't something you can play around and the loss of leftovers made the remaining pokemon on your team insanely hard to manage.

Edit:
As a note, taking out the OHKO moves makes more options viable in the battle tower, rather than just spamming boosters with decent speed as it currently is. I can't take my skarmory in there in it's current state, along with many other pokemon. It would help out most of the players to allow for variability and make it less cookie-cutter and boring.


Edit 2:
Furthermore survival rank doesn't mean anything if OHKO is a thing. It's like saying "Congrats you didnt get OHKO'd like the rest of the people did" because that is what it comes down to honestly.

Edit 3:
Apparently the new record for survival was not done in level 99, but like in level 10. In level 10 there is nothing with OHKO moves to stop people from going on infinitely. That being said the whole thing needs to be revamped then, or those modes disabled as it is unfair to the 99 battlers.
 

Dalek

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I will reply to this more fully later, but the records will be reset, moves of Pokémon being used by NPCs are in the process of being changed but this takes time. As for the streaks being harder now, if this is the case then points being rewarded can be adjusted. Such long streaks should be challenging and getting the best items in battle towers shouldnt be easy. As for heal bell as a tutor, that is something I can look into soon
 

HOF69

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Electrofreak said:
Furthermore I would remove OHKO moves from the enemy pokemon with this update. A cleric is absolutely necessary now and they are often slow. I had a kyogre take out 3 of my pokemon due to hax before, and my clerics always die from OHKO moves. The loss of leftovers should at least be accompanied by the removal of artificial difficulty. OHKO moves aren't something you can play around and the loss of leftovers made the remaining pokemon on your team insanely hard to manage.

I also support this idea. OHKO moves can take out a team so fast and can ruin any momentum you have going.
 

DomT.

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Oki What i Could see that battle tower is working good,i just want to add a little bit suggestion,i dont have a high speed internet connection,it is just a normal connection,sometime i get disconnected due to bad net,so All i want is whenever your battling any npc opponent in Any Mode like take on Survival mode(Battling against 33 or 42 etc) and u got disconnected,can we please continue from where we got disconnected or u could simply take 1 opponent back,like if we were battling #32 and we got disconnected,could we continue with same health of pokes on #31 (One Step Back) It is just a simple suggestion,i just want this because i m not the only one who have bad net connection,there are still more players out there.
 
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